Younger bitch picking on older one....

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I’ve had it before with my whippets and I hated it then, and now it seems I’ve got it again - Millie lurcher (aged approx 3 1/2) is becoming increasingly aggressive and confrontational with Amy lurcher (aged 13) as Amy gradually loses the plot more ?

It is very subtle and only noticeable at times, Amy tends to wander around the garden at night in the dark with no real clue what she is doing out there. She isn’t distressed or unhappy at all, and she is also increasingly deaf so it’s difficult to call her in (and it’s a small garden!), she potters around quite happily but when she does come to the back door Millie can be quite ‘hackles up’ and aggressive towards her. It also happens occasionally around the house when Amy isn’t quite sure where she would like to sleep and is wandering around between the sofa, the chair and the dog bed trying to decide....

I know why it happens, and I jump on Millie immediately whenever it happens as I won’t tolerate it. But it makes me so sad - has anyone any ideas if there is anything else I can do?

With the two whippets I basically ended up keeping the older one separately on her own when I wasn’t there to supervise. That was slightly more dramatic as the younger whippet actively attacked the older one, blood everywhere and very unpleasant.

interestingly Millie doesn’t dare challenge Amy for food, will submit to her in terms of choice of sleeping location and happily shares a sofa with her - it’s just those vulnerable moments when she almost pounces ???
 
Horrible situation and so sad to watch and experience when all of your dogs are equally loved and valued.

I have had some success in the past reinforcing 1000 per cent I am lead 'bitch' and boy am I some bitch! :D Stamp down immediately on whoever the usurper is, strong words, very fierce voice and and powerful body language and demeanour. Works very well when I was around and vigilant and acted very swiftly, but not carried through to when I was absent, so I agree if you cant be there, on guard as it were, separate them until you are home again.

I think you are probably doing all you can, doesn't make it any less heartbreaking to watch though does it? :(
 
MrsJ you have absolutely hit the nail on the head with your last sentence ?

Millie is a cocky little sod at the best of times so I have always made sure I am very very firm but fair with her - at the same, under all her bravado she can be surprisingly insecure so it’s a challenge getting the balance right! She is always left in no doubt that her behaviour is not acceptable and that I am in charge here (as I am with all my dogs) and she always slinks away duly chastised.

I suppose it doesn’t help that I can see the signs coming and I suspect that this year will be Amy’s last, she is getting weaker in her back end as well as mentally a lot more frail. On a walk she just doesn’t see deer, squirrels etc any more (which is quite handy sometimes!) but she still dashes about having a great time. She is the last of my old ones left now, so I have that sense of ‘here we go again’ ???

That sounds really melancholy and I do feel very sad about it, but I also make sure I spoil her rotten and enjoy every moment I have with her for now ❤️
 
Levrier said:
MrsJ you have absolutely hit the nail on the head with your last sentence ?

Millie is a cocky little sod at the best of times so I have always made sure I am very very firm but fair with her - at the same, under all her bravado she can be surprisingly insecure so it’s a challenge getting the balance right! She is always left in no doubt that her behaviour is not acceptable and that I am in charge here (as I am with all my dogs) and she always slinks away duly chastised.

I suppose it doesn’t help that I can see the signs coming and I suspect that this year will be Amy’s last, she is getting weaker in her back end as well as mentally a lot more frail. On a walk she just doesn’t see deer, squirrels etc any more (which is quite handy sometimes!) but she still dashes about having a great time. She is the last of my old ones left now, so I have that sense of ‘here we go again’ ???

That sounds really melancholy and I do feel very sad about it, but I also make sure I spoil her rotten and enjoy every moment I have with her for now ❤️
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It is a natural progression - older bitch becomes the weaker bitch in the pack.. It is shitty, but that’s dogs for you. ?
 
Willow has started to do this with Button on occasion but then in the next breath, they’re snuggled up together on the settee!!

As you described with Amy, Button sometimes waltzes off into her own little world and it’s these episodes that seem to irritate Willow. She’s also become a clumsy mare and has trodden on Willow a few times, which caused a bit of a grumble but no real aggression.

The dynamic between Rufus and Button hasn’t changed at all but he’s happy to let the women rule his life :)
 
To be honest I don't bother taking a hard line, it would not happen between the dogs themselves that another would correct the younger dog for this, I also think it just increases stress for the whole household, I would train the younger dog to hang around away from the doorway when the older dog comes in, teach a 'mat' command so when Amy comes in or approaches the door you get Millies to go to her mat, reward, repeat until you hopefully get to the point that Millie opts out of the way for a treat on her mat rather than confrontation at the door.
You can also do this with the 'vacant' episodes, when you see one start put Millie to the mat and reward, reducing the stress may reduce the incidences.
Picking on the weak is a natural progression within the group, it is also stressful for the dogs anyway and adding to the stress won't dissolve the tension, it is in my opinion more likely to cause a more significant event when the stress bubbles over.
I would not leave them together in your absence Lev, not sure from your post if you are or not, I would worry about coming back to a mess.
Not a fun time though, good luck
 
As I said in my original post, I’m aware of why it happens - but that doesn’t make it any more palatable to me.

Quite honestly I won’t tolerate any aggression between my dogs at any time, which I would expect to be normal for most people? So I will continue to ensure that pinch points are avoided at all times and keep a lid on any aggression....
 
Im in a similar situation atm with 6 year old jrt having a pop at my eldest ESS, the older dog is actually my only bitch, we also have an ESS dog who is the middle child :) For now the older girl is still able to put him back in his box without any help from me although on occasion I have given him a "talking too". In fairness he always backs down and usually nips behind the sofa for a bit to gather his composure, he fancies himself as top dog but always regrets his actions. Is it the same dynamic in essence, younger dog trying to step up to the plate, nothing to do with gender? The middle boy has always been happy to do as hes told and never tries to upstage anyone. They are never left alone for more than about an hour but I suspect at some point this year the older girl will need to be allowed her own room for those odd occasions, just in case
 
Levrier said:
As I said in my original post, I’m aware of why it happens - but that doesn’t make it any more palatable to me.

Quite honestly I won’t tolerate any aggression between my dogs at any time, which I would expect to be normal for most people? So I will continue to ensure that pinch points are avoided at all times and keep a lid on any aggression....
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Completely agree. I won’t tolerate it either. Probably because there may be ‘life in the old dog yet.’ And I don’t want a fight.
 
Just to add, at one point I owned five bitches, one in particular was a tricky bugger but I never separated them when left alone. In my (limited) experience that just exacerbated any ‘resentments’. Granted, there wasn’t ever a full blown fight and only one of them was what I would call a dominant bitch. I don’t allow any built up animosity between my dogs. That means being on the ball with every snidey look or a show of dominance.
 
I would *order* Millie back from the door way when you know Amy is on her way inside. She is pushing her luck and you are the one in charge - not her. She needs to know that she is NOT allowed to become aggressive in your home, you are in charge not her. So rather than jumping in to stop her aggression after you see the first signs, send her back out of the way before she can start.
We have kept up to 7 bitches of varying ages, some spayed, some entire, various breeds, including Labs,J RTs, BC , Rotts and others, some living f/t in the house, some in an outbuilding but all together when there was someone at home, without any serious incident, or indeed any fighting at all because they have always known whose in charge at our house - the humans!.
 
MyBoyChe said:
Im in a similar situation atm with 6 year old jrt having a pop at my eldest ESS, the older dog is actually my only bitch, we also have an ESS dog who is the middle child :) For now the older girl is still able to put him back in his box without any help from me although on occasion I have given him a "talking too". In fairness he always backs down and usually nips behind the sofa for a bit to gather his composure, he fancies himself as top dog but always regrets his actions. Is it the same dynamic in essence, younger dog trying to step up to the plate, nothing to do with gender? The middle boy has always been happy to do as hes told and never tries to upstage anyone. They are never left alone for more than about an hour but I suspect at some point this year the older girl will need to be allowed her own room for those odd occasions, just in case
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I would guess that this is more a case of the JRT being an opinionated little soul rather than an age thing, as the age-dominance thing pretty much always happens between the same sex? Bitches are far worse than dogs for it IMO (but then I much prefer dogs ?)

I think you are doing the right thing in terms of management, I always tend to somewhat spoil my oldies anyway so quite often they will get ‘sofa time’ when they are left when the others are in the kitchen ?
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I would *order* Millie back from the door way when you know Amy is on her way inside. She is pushing her luck and you are the one in charge - not her. She needs to know that she is NOT allowed to become aggressive in your home, you are in charge not her. So rather than jumping in to stop her aggression after you see the first signs, send her back out of the way before she can start.
We have kept up to 7 bitches of varying ages, some spayed, some entire, various breeds, including Labs,J RTs, BC , Rotts and others, some living f/t in the house, some in an outbuilding but all together when there was someone at home, without any serious incident, or indeed any fighting at all because they have always known whose in charge at our house - the humans!.
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Yes I’ve always had a range of bitches as well - all my life - and only ever had this problem once before with the whippets. In that case it was because the older whippet was very frail in her old age. In this case it’s because Millie is unlike any bitch I’ve ever encountered before - goodness knows what happened in her short life before she came to me, but she has multiple issues. So I have already tried the ‘usual’ techniques, and they don’t work.....
 
Sister reminded me that we did have a fight once, between a Rott and a LabxCollie. It took 2 decent sized adults to separate them -fortunately no real harm done - but it didn't happen again - the protagonists were never left together without a human present. It was odd actually because the Rott was very amenable and the Labx didn't appear to start fights but she came to us as an adult and she had been rehomed by the RSPCA before that and other bitches did seem to not be keen on her company. She had been spayed before she came to us, not sure if that was relevant. Rott was entire as were most of the others. However, they did both know that was unacceptable behaviour.
 
My 16 month old male German shepherd can be a bit like this with my OH's aging retired collie bitch. It has similar triggers as yours too. Fly (collie) tends to dither about where to lie down, especially at night after dark and will wander up and down the corridor and it seems to cause tension in my male shepherd who will grumble if she comes too close to him or if she tries to come into my bedroom. He has bopped her a couple of times for this. She would have wiped the floor with him in her younger days but all the fight is out of her now so she just shuffles off :( He has also had a go at my six month old GSD bitch puppy twice recently. I think both times with her it was more resource guarding behaviour. I think it is partly that he is genetically predisposed to being possessive (his mother is) and also "billy big balls" adolescent behaviour. I don't tolerate it and have shut him out immediately he's shown signs but I have to be careful as he seems to give off clear "don't f*ck with me vibes" when he is over-aroused so don't want to push him further, so out he goes for a while (from a few minutes to a few hours) and he has been much better recently. The majority of the time they are best friends (esp my two) though so hopefully it will never escalate to having to keep them separately.

Sorry, not much help but just to let you know you are not alone :)
 
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