Youngster advice needed

W

WishfulThinker

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 January 2006
Messages
5,418
Location
Just up from that street on the right.....
Visit site
I hope you guys can help me with this.

A We have a girl on the yard . She has a youngster, we ‘think’ he is about 16 months. Anyway they have, on the advice of an older dude that works on the yard, started lunging him and the older guy has bitted him. Now one of the girls has approached me about it as she was worried, and I have already said to the owner that they really should leave him longer before they lunge etc – I mean they are doing proper work with him.

I was always under the impression that you should not properly start a youngster till at least 3 as the bones are not ready - and they dont stop growing till 7, especially in the mouth as they are still soft and having a bit in there will press into this and cause grooves (apparently racehorses have these grooves). And the constant lunging can cause Splints and joint problems.

Do you know is this correct? Also is there anything else that can happen?

I want to try and speak to the girl, but I have to put a ££ slant on it as if they think it will de-value him then they will hopefully stop. He is a wonderful youngster, so gentle and well behaved – and he could make a great looking horse with a fabulous temperament. We are just worried that something might crop up that would mean he really was broken before he even begins.

I know you guys always say NOT to interfere - but this girl is taking this guys advice as he is seen as a great horseman on the yard. He is good at handling - but I do wonder when he is trying to get a newly broken 4yr old and a teen ager rider over a 1.30m jump
frown.gif
.

We just so do not want her to end up disappointed if he does damage something. They are trying their best, but I jsut feel and from what I was taught at college know that they need to leave the wee man longer.


Any advice appreciated.
laugh.gif
 
16 months is very young as you rightly say their bones and joints are immature and lunging can put tremendous strain on them. We generally don't start ours before 3 yr old. He was long reined and had a saddle on when just 3 then turned away until the summer. Then he was brought up again lunged and just ridden away for a couple of weeks in the summer before being turned away until November to begin work again.
 
Try the money slant and give her some info on the horses development. You could also try 'youngsters need lots of holidays to sleep and grow' and tell her not to do anything again for six months if she insists on still working him. She could take him for walks round fields and see the sights but he really doesn't need any more than that!
Good luck
 
Bitting is something I wouldnt worry too much about as long as its not actually putting any pressure , If they are bitting to lunge then Yes that is wrong and will do damage not only causing a hard mouth later on .

Lungeing altogether is wrong and no doubt will cause bother with joints later on if not in the near future .

Missy will be 2 in march , we have er bitted due to showing and also due to her size , We have started long reining her .

My problem would be the lungeing , the bitting not so much , but again depends on what they are doing .

What height/breed is the yearling ?
 
Like you, I would not lunge anything under the age of three...even then, I'd be sure to take it easy.

However, in competitive circles or in the case of young, athletic horses (big TB/Warmblood types) it is not uncommon for people to lunge them at a younger age.

I recently had a study week at my distance learning college, one of the assessments was based on lunging and long reining...practical and theory....we were ask this very question! Just as I have here, I stated I would not lunge anything under the age of three. The response, from a qualified lecturer who trains and competes...

"Well, yes, in theory...but you wouldn't leave that horse *points to a 2yr old that already stands 16.2hh* til it was 3 before you started the basics"

I said, I'd do work with a pressure halter, get respect and manners from it rather than put that amount of force on it...

"Well, racehorses are lunged from as young as 18 months, sometimes even younger"

I felt like arguing then remembered I was being assessed!!

So long as it's a few times a week, on a big circle in gentle paces on a good surface for no more than 20 minutes, I'd probably say she might be ok but she needs to monitor his legs for any heat or changes.
 
Oh he is easily 14.3/15hh now. He is supposedly WBx, and he is not a slight wee thing he has LOOOOONG legs.

They are doing lots of ground work with him which is great, but it is the lunging - yes with bit in - that is worrying us
frown.gif
. I know racehorses are lunged younger - but they aren't destined for a 20yr career!

Also he has already had a bad absess rupture up through the coronet band and another absess in a hind foot - I am not sure these would make a difference tho.

I am considering being UBER generous and buying her a book on Youngsters and breaking. I just so couldn't bear to see her have to deal with the disappointment if something goes wrong with him, and for the poor wee dude as well.
 
At 16 months - all ours are in the field quietly growing. All the youngsters get shown - however, none are worked. They all lead quietly in hand and if required are bitted.

Nothing ever sees a lunge rope until it is at least 3 years old.

Money wise - she could be devaluing her horse hugely because of the wear and tear on immature joints. Which could render it permantely lame and therefore worth zero!!

Such a shame.
 
I do wonder if racehorses would last longer and, perhaps, be more successful if they were allowed to develop fully first...but that's a debate for another day.

Have you asked her why she's lunging him?

If she can give you a genuine answer, for example, what she's trying to achieve, you have to respect it

If she basically says "Because *enter name of Mr Horseman Expert* told me I should be", then tell her she needs to learn more about it first.

It's cliché but ask her "if he told you to cut your horses hoof off to cure an abscess, would you just do it...or would you find out if he was correct or not first?"
Either print out these replies or, like you say, buy her a book.
 
Yes I asked, she just said that the older guy said it was time to start his schooling! They have never owned horses beofre and now have a mare and this wee man.

I have worked on a stud farm and everything was left out till it was 3 - in a big herd to do what it wanted. Not that wasn't great as they were wee shites to deal with usually when the 1st came in - but they never had any joint issues in the time they were broken or even when they have been sold on!

I think I will try taking to her tonight - like ask her to come a walk with me so she doesn't freak in front of people. She isn't a bad owner, she just trusts this guy too much
frown.gif
.

We are also scared that if we say anything we will get chucked off the yard as the old guy is in there with the owner.
frown.gif
. He already chucked one kid off cos he couldn't work a weekend to pay for his livery (the kid was working EVERY weekend and through the week some days when he should have been at school!)
 
Sounds like the best plan. Just be honest, say you're worried about her (don't say the horse, she'll think you're either jealous - seriously, people do jump to that conclusion! - or saying she's a bad owner) because he horse is so young, you're worried she'll be heart broken if something happened to him.

Threshold Picture guides are cheap basic books
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lungeing-Thresho...908&sr=8-24
Might be enough to tell her...or is there a rider she particularly likes? see if they've written a book!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Oh also - where does this stand legally, as technically this older dude is employed by the yard! So its a member of the yard staff 'breaking' the horse!

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends...is she paying him to do so? Or is he just telling her what to do and she's doing it? If the latter, it's still her responsibility.
 
Sounds like a pleasant yard
smirk.gif


Legally I doubt there is anything you can do about it .

"have you ever asked her why she is lungeing ?
If she can give you a genuine answer, for example, what she's trying to achieve, you have to respect it "


Ditto
Missy is quite mature for her age (phyiscally) shes heading for 16.1 at 22months, she has been long reined (just started about 2 wks ago ) and even at that, she is only being long reined once a week if not once a fortnight for at the most 20 mins in the arena walking on the outside track .
 
Not sure, he kinda flits in and about - but probably though he leave the guy to it.

What they are trying to achieve is basically to start breaking him. He was seen just being made to canter round and round and round.

It is a pleasant yard, just that these people are inexperienced (very) and he has helped them in the past and now kinda taken charge.

I would not say this youngster was physically mature - he still very much looks like a baby - baby belly and a slightly foaly tail. They wish to show it in the summer so I think that may be the reason.

I know I sound like such an interfering old goat - but I just so do not want them to mess this up, and I feel that if I do just like everyone else and ignore it then thats not good. I am meant to be a friend to her.
 
[ QUOTE ]

"Well, racehorses are lunged from as young as 18 months, sometimes even younger"

[/ QUOTE ]

and a lot of racehorses end up on the scrap heap for lameness....

these two facts may not be unconnected.

the joints of a young horse are nowhere near ready for the pressures of lunging until at least 3 years old. If it weren't for economics and the need to give them a job to do to stop them going crackers, I'd wait until 4.

E
 
Hmmmm, nope.

But I knew an RS when I worked locally I think - but he would be 80 or 90 tho! He was an extremely knowledgeable man. He could whisper in the ear of the crankiest stallion and it would do as it was told!

This older dude does know some stuff - he is brilliant at making Beau do what he is told - in fact never seen him sooo compliant! Just some of it is a bit off - maybe it is just old practice that I haven't seen. But I was taught by people who started riding as far back as the 50's!
 
Hi Beau if this is who I think it is (you'll know who I mean) then TBH think your onto a losing thing as taking advice was never a strong point unkess it was what they wanted to hear.
Agree with all you've said tho bout lungeing etc.
And also guy(again if same person) does have a habit of this so must admit would never let him near any of mine.He competed an allegedly 3 yr old pony in local juming comps(usually at least 2 classes and nearly always in j/o as well)tho were small classes but geee poor pony 'll get burnt out among other things(joints etc).
Is there anybody else they would listen to -riding instructor or such.
Hope you can get them to listen tho for horses sake
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

"Well, racehorses are lunged from as young as 18 months, sometimes even younger"

[/ QUOTE ]

and a lot of racehorses end up on the scrap heap for lameness....

these two facts may not be unconnected.


[/ QUOTE ]

Which was exactly the point I was going to argue at the time...but like I say, I was being assessed...and arguing with the lecturer rarely does you any favours!!

I fail to see how they can't be connected.

It's like saying there may be a link in the percentage of gastric ulcers found in racehorses and the normal diet of the average racehorse!
 
[ QUOTE ]

It's like saying there may be a link in the percentage of gastric ulcers found in racehorses and the normal diet of the average racehorse!

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite.... the ability to stick heads in sand when challenged about the impact of what the traditionalists consider 'normal' is amazing...

at least some people are challenging it, though... has to be progress

E
 
TM - Yes, and i think Yes again. I asked my instructor if they would try - they said if she wont listen to me (she usually does as I usually help her with stuff when she asks so she trusts me) then she wont listen to him or the whole of Aberdeen.

I am going to print stuff out and show her and just say, cawcanny on the lunging, long reining is ok, in walk. he doesn't need to canter round and round.

He could be quite a nice horse as he is still an ugly duckling who hasnt really changed over yet.
 
I've lunged a horse at 18 months before but it was only in walk off the head collar - he was a big boy with attitude and tbh I needed to get things done with him while he was still small enough to deal with. He was then bitted at two and long-reined everywhere before lunging began when he was three.
 
I hope you get through to them...and help the young horse...would be such a shame to push it now when it is growing and developing...overdo it and cause problems.
Ex-racehorses are often used as an example for the point of not pushing youngsters as they are often known for getting arthritic joints and tendon/ligament issues, not even that much later on in life.
My ex-racehorse was raced from 2yrs old to 5yrs old (so she must have been started very young), broke down on both front tendons so end of career, sold on to people who thought she looked flashy but didnt treat her very well, arthritis strted at age of 16...it really cant do them any good to be lunged/worked at such a young age...they are still developing...in all areas.
There are lots of things you can do with a young horse...without pushing it with work like lunging. Lunging is hard work for a grown horse, let alone a youngster.
 
here's some info on lunging, deff wouldnt do it with a young horse, have talked to racing folk who have seen it cause lots of issues too, along with contrete based whose walkers.

http://irishnhsociety.proboards41.com/in...read=1195740744

Good luck, I think anything you can do to help horse & owner slow down wuld be amazing. You can mess up horses physically SOOO quickly, esp when young & growing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top