Youngster problem - would really love some advice

[Beetle]

Hi Everyone

I'm afraid I've been lurking lately and not posting as my daughter 'Hattikins' seems to have become totally addicted to this site, not surprisingly, and we run a huge risk of running into each other, which wouldn't be cool for her

Anyway she's too busy chatting in the CR at the moment and I wondered if you would give us some advice. We have a rising 5 year old 16hh ISH by a Cruising stallion and a Ballinvella mare, who we've had for 3 months. She absolutely gorgeous and a chesnut mare (for our sins!). Her SJ is very established and she's already won 3 BNs with her previous owners last year. Her flat work is coming on nicely and she's scored two good mid 60%s unaff. despite having a couple very green moments. She had never seeen a XC fence until we got her but we started her slowly and she happily does water, ditches coffins etc and we have high hopes for her future but..................... she has suddenly started, for no apparent reason we can work out, to occasionally stop mid flat work, mid jumping, in fact mid anything and plant, and I mean plant, she just won't budge. She doesn't appear distressed at all. She's shown no sign of nappiness until now and will happily go anywhere on her own. My daughter has a pretty good seat and legs but is no match for a big stubborn horse. Eventually, when she decides to, she will go on and work very well again. We haven't hit her yet and are very reluctant to do so but I suspect we might now need to. Is she testing us? Is this just a normal passing baby thing and how should we handle it?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Sorry if I've posted on the wrong bit of the forum but I know all you comp. peeps will have some ideas.

I'll get Hattikins to post a pic of her - i don't know how

Thanks
Beetle

 

[Hattikins]

Here are the piccys of her

(please dont look at my position or my hands- was very little on her 3months ago and she pulled my forwards slightly!! not like that now

)

 

[vic07]

Is everything all a bit much and he needs time to think?????

 

[mrdarcy]

Does she do this planting whilst being worked on the lunge? Or is it just under saddle? Does she do the same whilst out hacking or is it just when she's 'working'?

The first possibility might be some physical discomfort or that she just gets tired - though the fact that she will then continue on and work nicely would seem to suggest otherwise. Secondly as the OP has suggested she's just being a baby and needs time to stop and think. Or thirdly it could be toddler tantrums.

I'd say from her picture she's a little on her forehand and has a lot of filling out and maturing physically to do, especially behind the saddle. She is lovely though! The sort of horse I go for myself

 

[Hattikins]

hmmmm...(from my point of view as her jockey)

she is a terribly laid back person-doesnt get fussed, isnt nervy-doesnt have big major spooks-dont get me wrong she is lively and sparky-just a very chilled person-i dont think she has too much thrown at her- in fact we were wondering whether her brain wasnt engaged enough and whether she was getting bored!!!!!!!!!!!

g_g- this piccy was taken in feb when we got her- she is now def filled out alot and muscled up!!!! she is now not at all like that on the forehand and quite often now in self carriage-sorry for the old misleading piccy but only ones of her working!!!!

 

[Judie]

Is it all getting a bit too 'serious' for her, perhaps lighten up a bit and inject some fun.

Is she coming in to season?

Is she doing it out hacking?

 

[Hattikins]

(as jockey) she did this today having a canter and pop in the field- very low, all fun and laidback-as i came to trot-she planted, then after a minute or so she finally carried on and i did LOADS of transitions and occasional little jumps to keep her mind really working-she didnt try it again tonight after that and when she had done good work-poss only 10-15mins we took her in.

 

[Maesfen]

Do you think it could just be her way of saying back off a bit cos she seems to have done an awful lot for her tender years. Perhaps she needs a complete break, you know some weeks turned away and allowed to chill out completely and then bring her back into work slowly; she is still only a baby in spite of her size and strength.

 

[Hattikins]

ummm-could do-just she's not actually doing anything that strenuous or boring for a baby- we had my other horse since her age and did same amount of stuff-fun and little and often-shes not seriously objecting all the time which makes me think its just naughty or bordom of some sort-only think this because shell go and work brilliantly again after planting

probably best my mum takes over posting from here-think maybe she has a greater depth of knowledge then me from now on-thanks for everyones advice so far-we will certainly look at all the options

 

[henryhorn]

Mmmmmm as most of ours are all related to the same bloodline I understand only too well your description of her as a ride. Sparkly is how I describe ours but not mug's rides ever..
The planting is something only one horse has ever done, Jonty. It was in response to being asked to jump much bigger fences at a competition, when we arrived we assumed daughter would be in the lower team, but they had put her in the 3' 3".
The mare had neve jumped that big but until then had been bold and coped with everything, so we carried on. She got round the first course with one down and a few erratic leaps, then half way round the next course she stopped dead and refused to move an inch.. Not backwards, not sideways, just stock still. When she did move she wanted to run to the exit and poor devil was attempting to tell us we had over faced her. It took a lot of back tracking and confidence building (and firm riding) to cure the problem, and fighting is not the way we've found. My daughter sits calmly and pats her on the neck, reassures her and off she goes again. She successfully evented last year and the only time she did it was in a dressage arena
when stressed. She finished last year going in great style round the 3 7" novice/intermediate course and once jumping the problem disappears.
I'm not sure if your mare is doing the same thing, I would perhaps get a good physio to check her back just in case something pinches suddenly and makes her freeze to avoid more pain..
good luck with your lovely chesnut mare (if you look in H and H results pictures an awful lot these days are chesnut mares!)

 

[Giggs]

My 4 yr old plants himself sometimes when working on the flat - not ever when jumping - he seems to find that much more fun. With him, my trainer is fairly sure he is testing me as he will work sweetly for around 10 mins then do it. He puts his ears back and stops up. I haven't smacked him or nagged him to go forward as this tends to make him worse and hes a lot bigger than me. My trainer or someone on ground comes into paddock and stands behind him with lunge whip, then he gets the idea and moves forward again. He is doing it much less now and I think its due to him understanding that if he finds it difficult he has to go forward to correct it rather than backward. I had his back/teeth e.t.c checked before insisting he went forward to rule out any pain/discomfort issues.

 

[Beetle]

Thansk for your reply.

She does have variety and we've have kept it light. She gets several days off each week to chill. It's hard to know what she would consider fun as she very obliging with most things and seems a generally happy person.

She might be in season but it's hard to tell with her, timing is about right and the last time we thought she might be in seaon she jumped a 5 bar gate and stuck her head in the air and refused to do any reasonable flatwork for a week. Maybe we just have a typical hormonal bolshy mare!

No, she hasn't done it on the lunge or hacking but she's only started doing it in the last week.

Teeth have all been checked, don't think it's her saddle as she has two (spoilt madam) and she's done it in both.

If she stops next week we'll have to assume she's just being mareish, at least we'll know.

Beetle

 

[Beetle]

Hi

Thanks for your reply. It's interesting to know of others with similar challenges! I'm not sure what is going on but will give her the benefit of being a mare for the next week and then probably give her a break and if that doesn't work will have to get a bit more persuasive with her!

Good luck with your youngster.

Beetle

 

[Beetle]

Have PM'd you.

Beetle

 

[Taz975]

Bit late coming into this but Ive had one with a pretty simalar problem so I thought Id throw my bit in!
I had a horse who came to me do that, for no apparent reason (had all the vital bits checked back tack etc. was was fine), whether jumping or schooling or just hacking. He was 6 at the time, and after alot of digging about we think it was becuase he'd been overfaced jumping wise - he was a very capable wise man and it felt like riding a schoolmaster, (obviously not at only 6 with only £300 bsja winnings) who would jump the moon if asked - but had evidently jumped too much too big too soon and just got sick of it.
So we sent him hunting and he did get better, but never got out of it compeltley, which was such a shame because he was one of the best jumpers Id have, (either would win or be eliminated!)
We sold him to a hunting home as he was not much good to us (showjumpers).

Obviously, Im not saying thats whats up with yours, but its something to consider because he never gave the apperance of being anything but really happy in his work except the planting business.
Good luck & hope it turns out okay!

 

[ECHO230503]

EVERY 5 YEAR OLD I HAVE MET HAS A "TEENAGER STROP" USUALLY AT THIS TIME OF YEAR (ONE ON THE YARD DOING IT NOW).IT SHOULD EVENTUALLY PASS.IF THERE IS ANY POSSIBILITY OF OT BEING HER SEASON ASWELL TRY A SUPPLEMENT FOR THIS IT MAY HELP A BIT.SHE LOOKS LOVELY

 

[SillyMare]

Interesting you say that Wendina - my 5 year-old had a proper 'teenage strop' at Prestwold recently and behaved like a total lunatic in the dressage. She regressed to the sort of level she was working at a year ago!!

We are hoping it was a one-off!

 

[Beetle]

Thanks for being a bit more encouraging! I've been getting rather depressed as I really don't believe we've overfaced her.

The people we bought her from (successful experienced local SJers) keep taling me we should be be PNing her by now and I know she's nowhere near ready. I know there's a huge difference between how quickly the professionals move their youngsters on and the rest of us.

Seriously hoping this is a teenage strop and will be taking a lunging whip XC schooling on Saturday which I really will only wave as a last resort.

Will let you know.

 

[Beetle]

Hi

Thanks for your experience. I can see how over facing them could easily start this but this mare has only been asked, in the 3 months we've had her, to jump 2'6" XC because she's new to it, paddle through water and pop ditches all of which she does willingly. She did her BNs with previous owners and has really only jumped 2'9"-3' we us, she has a huge jump that Hattikins is learning to sit to and she also does a bit of grid work which she does very capably.

As this has only happened recently I'm hoping we can get her through it before it becomes a problem.

I think she might have a lazy streak in her and it's very hot still in the evenings maybe that bothers her.

Anyway enough of looking for excuses for her and on with the job!

Beetle

 

[icestationzebra]

SJ - You are right about the professionals having different 'timescales' to us mere mortals. The 'professional' I bought Jemima from said she was ready to event. Whilst I already knew I wanted to wait a year - she is so not ready, don't think she has ever done dressage in her life! Whilst he was not being remotely dishonest - she is everything he said she was - he probably could get her up and running this season. I however want to take it slowly, build a relationship and when we do finally get there it will mean so much more.
I do think that some of these young big horses have very strong opinions about what they think they ought to be doing... unfortunately there are times when they don't coincide with our own opinions! When I used to ride a lot of young showing horses we often met similar resistances, and once we had eliminated the usual stuff (back/teeth etc) we continued work firmly. By this I mean forward positive and assertive riding - not rough and aggressive riding. Always tried to end every session on a good note - even if they had only worked for a short time. They seemed to pick up what was required of them when they were praised and rewarded for cooperating. Every horse is different, but don't lose heart - keep doing what your doing, keep it varied and by this I mean both activities and length of time worked and make a fuss of her when she responds positively. I know this is all stuff you know anyway..... I look forward to hearing how she does. A and I have already agreed us owners of mares with white faces need to stick together!

J

 

[LauraBR]

OMG she looks almost IDENTICAL to my youngster... scary!