Youngster thrown me off again

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MagicMelon

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I've had a friends welsh cob for backing, he's a nice pony, seems generally a pretty laid back type although naturally active moving. He was going fine to begin with being lunged and long reined although he oddly he did panic twice when being long reined and just suddenly took off. The biggest issue is under saddle. He was fine to begin with with me on him walking about in a small enclosed yard but once I took him into a small paddock he all of a sudden took off dumping me in the process. I thought perhaps it was the saddle so we got one properly fitted to him and got going again back in the yard. I then took him back into his small paddock again yesterday and he was walking about, halting, changing direction etc. beautifully for 5 mins then he panicked a tiny bit but calmed down again but a few seconds later he took off full pelt again throwing me into a jump block. I decided that was it, I'm in a hell of a lot of pain sitting here on morphine after yanking all the muscles down my side and back so its just not worth risking this again. I just can't understand why he does it. I've backed several horses before and never had any problems at all! He goes from perfectly relaxed marching along to losing the plot within seconds and there's absolutely no way to stay on as he turns dramatically as he approaches the fence. He didn't spook at anything and both times have been on sunny, hot, non windy days.

The owner is pretty gutted and doesn't know what to do now as obviously she doesn't want anyone else getting hurt. I've suggested definitely getting his back checked first and then explaining the situation honestly to a local pro yard who have experience in problem horses to see if they'd try. I'm definitely not willing to sit on him again.

But has anyone had this problem before? If so how was it rectified or are some horses simply not rideable?! Such a shame as he's been doing well showing inhand.
 
Obviously get his back and teeth checked. Depending on his age, he could be teething like mad. If the molars are not through properly yet, the bit could be sliding up over caps. Ouch.

Try riding/working him bitless - a Micklem bridle is usefull. And would be a useful tool for you anyway.

I think teeth are likely to be your problem, so get a reputable dentist out rather than a vet unless you have an equine vet who specialises in dentistry.

Good luck with him.
 
I would back off, give him a good three weeks just long reining and no school work, then send him to a pro yard.
Teeth should have been done before the backing, and mouth checked every day. also back for sensitivity.
 
MagicMelon said:
I've had a friends welsh cob for backing, he's a nice pony, seems generally a pretty laid back type although naturally active moving. He was going fine to begin with being lunged and long reined although he oddly he did panic twice when being long reined and just suddenly took off. The biggest issue is under saddle. He was fine to begin with with me on him walking about in a small enclosed yard but once I took him into a small paddock he all of a sudden took off dumping me in the process. I thought perhaps it was the saddle so we got one properly fitted to him and got going again back in the yard. I then took him back into his small paddock again yesterday and he was walking about, halting, changing direction etc. beautifully for 5 mins then he panicked a tiny bit but calmed down again but a few seconds later he took off full pelt again throwing me into a jump block. I decided that was it, I'm in a hell of a lot of pain sitting here on morphine after yanking all the muscles down my side and back so its just not worth risking this again. I just can't understand why he does it. I've backed several horses before and never had any problems at all! He goes from perfectly relaxed marching along to losing the plot within seconds and there's absolutely no way to stay on as he turns dramatically as he approaches the fence. He didn't spook at anything and both times have been on sunny, hot, non windy days.

The owner is pretty gutted and doesn't know what to do now as obviously she doesn't want anyone else getting hurt. I've suggested definitely getting his back checked first and then explaining the situation honestly to a local pro yard who have experience in problem horses to see if they'd try. I'm definitely not willing to sit on him again.

But has anyone had this problem before? If so how was it rectified or are some horses simply not rideable?! Such a shame as he's been doing well showing inhand.
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Some horse are un-rideable, but I have met only one in over a hundred, and she may have had previous bad experience.
I used to help out with breaking event horses, and one or two could turn themselves upside down, but although the riders had a few cracked ribs and so on, the horses went on to be good pro rides.
 
His teeth were done and wolf teeth removed a week before he came to me. Also, I had a very light contact as he responded well by voice commands so I don't see why teeth may be the problem here. He's just turned 6 yrs, they began backing him to point of sitting on him but not moving as a 4yo but he then got v bad laminitis so nothing done since until I got him.
 
I suspect there may have been problems before. Why didn't the last people that backed him continue the work? It seems a little convenient the job was only half done and he was never actually was ridden. Even very nice people can 'forget' to mention something relevant as they believe time heals everything and the horse will have forgotten past problems and it would be prejudicial to the horse to tell you (I have had this!)

I agree your safety comes first. He would probably be better off going to a yard that deals with this sort of problem regularly.
 
Last person who started backing him originally doesn't have time to do him at the moment as she's got a lot of horses on the go. I don't think the owner would keep it from me and they didn't get very far with him anyway so he may well not have shown this.

Yeah, while I'm happy to back and bring horses on, I have been lucky to have always had pretty easy horses, yes some problem ones but nothing like this where I can't see what causes it. It's just so annoying to have basically failed with this one! I'll be. I'll be very interested to see how someone else gets on with him.
 
Mine was similar, used to panic and deck me a fair bit, probably in part because I made a lot of mistakes, went faster than he was obviously ready for. So I won't advise on what I did as there are many more knowledgable horsemen on here than me. But I did persevere. 3years later I have a horse who is a joy to ride and be around. Some of them just need loads and loads of time.
 
amymay said:
How long have you had him MM, and are you cantering him I'm the school yet?
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Had him about a month to 6 weeks. I don't have a school, I normally just start riding them in my small yard then go out into a small grass paddock. No, no cantering under saddle only got as far as walking (well unless you count him galloping off with me!!). Some cantering on the lunge only, not his best pace as with many welsh cobs his trot is his preferred!

Thanks KatPT, I'd keep going if it were my own horse but my other half is already demanding I give up the horses altogether as I now have a 2 month old child... So don't think I can risk falling off again, need something safe for a while!
 
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Are you lunging before you get on? Is he nice and tired?

My horse was going along fine and then just stopped being ok all of a sudden. She managed to fall over on the concrete rearing which really bloody hurt frankly. She's fine again now. I'd taken it a bit too quick and worried her causing her to panic and stop dead then plunge forward. My friend came over so I had proper help on the floor and to take a look at the situation. We basically did a mini re-backing on day one. Big lunging session, lay over until totally fine with that, then sit up walk trot canter, then when she was tired get off and on a few times until she was ok with me legging friend straight up and walking away/ trotting and cantering calmly. Day two we lunged and I legged her straight on. Once she was settled and had trotted and cantered about we got on and off a few times. Kept at it for a good 10 days with a nice tired horse as she was more settled that way. Now I lunge for 5 minutes and get on by myself from the block again and off we go. I did think I'd royally effed it up though!

Sounds like he's scared himself a little bit to be honest. They don't tend to like it when you fall off at that age I find. Can you get very good help on the ground and go back a few steps and make sure he's completely confident?

ETS: don't stay in walk! Get on up into trot. I find they do this sort of thing less from a trot. I did do racehorses and we only walked very briefly on the lunge once we got on and then straight on up into trot. Once they're going forward a bit more they tend not to be as spooky. Well, that's how I find it usually anyway. Can anyone lunge you on him if he's confident on the lunge?
 
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These ones who are out of the blue difficult are much much harder than the ones who are up tight and nervous from the start.
I used to back a lot of horses so could suggest loads of things .
But will resrict the self to two get his back carefully checked by a vet and an equine physio .
And if your gut feeling is you don't want to do this yourself don't.
And I know it's three be never mind IMO the best person to get a difficult one ridden away is someone who honed their skills breaking racehorses so if you decide not to continue that's where I would be looking if I was the owner.
 
Will watch this post with interest as I have same problems. I have top instructor helping me 3 times a week and doing groundwork everday.Think my lad was started poorly and although he is kindest gentlest horse on ground he panics occassionaly ridden and wants to bolt.My instructor is riding with me on ground at end of lunge line so he can be reeled in if he has panic attack. He has been backed proffessionally and still had issues so we have completely restarted .There is huge improvement but will be long process I think I would have given up if he wasnt the sweetest horse ,its really not his fault someone has either caused issues or something has gone wrong with his education. I so miss my riding :(:D
 
I think it will be easier to deal with this youngsters backing challenges maybe somewhere that does have a manege, as there are fewer 'variable's than in a paddock, esp if being ridden alone.
 
I suspect that's why your getting dumped then, (if you're not catering yet). He has a spook, scoots off, you're unbalanced, he panics - cue dump. All pretty standard and understandable.
 
amymay said:
I suspect that's why your getting dumped then, (if you're not catering yet). He has a spook, scoots off, you're unbalanced, he panics - cue dump. All pretty standard and understandable.
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When would you expect cantering then? I'd sat on him about 4 times to walk round the yard first and work on getting on and off quietly etc. there was no room to trot in the yard hence I moved into the paddock. The very first time we were in the paddock I was on him for 1 minute max I'd say before he took off, so he was then unbidden for a week after while I got the saddler out. Then I began back in the yard again to make sure he was ok and so he could get used to the new saddle, walked him about in there for 3 or 4 days then took him back into the paddock yesterday and was walking about for 5 mins before he took off. So I've not been on long enough to trot or canter yet! Would you suggest Id got on and immediately gone into canter?! With past horses, I always establish a nice relaxed walk first before moving onto trot and then canter once the trot was nice, never ever had any probs doing it this way.

With regard to lungeing, yep I always lunge him for a while first to take the edge off. Unfortunately can't have anyone lunge him while I'm on, I have someone on the ground standing about but they're not experienced enough to lunge.
 
MM enough is enough, you have a very young baby and you can't risk getting hurt again. It's disappointing and frustrating, but this lad is a job for a pro. I hope you make a quick recovery.
 
I had a 13hh new forest pony to break, straight from the forest and unhandled, she was exactly the same. Fine to start with and fine going out we could have done 20 mins ride and she would suddenly scoot and set off and I fell off every time!
We eventually got her 'harrowing the school' dragging a pallet behind her. A few days doing this and she was much better about not scooting and things improved from there.
 
ooh MM how are you feeling? I cant imagine how ouchy it must be to come off after a CSec, as you know I had a normal delivery but am still not right and would be v sore I imagine if I came off. Poor you, I know didly squat about youngsters but it does sound like it might be time to hand this one over and be kind to yourself.
 
Don't worry about 'failing'. No matter how experienced we are, new horses can throw new problems at us. This one is putting you in real danger and you have a two months old child. Time to back off and let somebody else find out how to sort it out. He may well dump somebody a few more times before the issue gets resolved and you cannot afford to be the one on the floor.
 
Have you tried him riding with another horse - just following on? May help him gain confidence, just hacking slowly around the field, staying in walk, then moving up into other paces when he has been calm for a few days. I find babies take confidence from another horse... Otherwise I would go back to lungeing him and riding him while he is being lunged.

ps, is he smaller than what you're used to? I often find small things the hardest to ride and lose balance easier on them..
 
Is he mature enough yet? As in... inside his head. Mine is one of those slow to mature. Several trainers couldn't back her aged 3-4. An injury relegated her to the field, and at 5-6 she was impossible (threw tantrums after looking fairly quiet). Now at 7, she seems to be happier with herself, and - touch wood - happier to get on with life. It's been a long time!!!
 
amymay said:
I suspect that's why your getting dumped then, (if you're not catering yet). He has a spook, scoots off, you're unbalanced, he panics - cue dump. All pretty standard and understandable.
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Mine is very similiar and experiencing same type of problems ,why would you canter if you didnt have control in walk or trot.? Just asking ;)
We are doing lots of half halts and standing(my lad wants to be moving all time) ,I know everyone has different idea on backing prev person was cantering and he just got faster and faster and stronger. We now have soft contact but still tendency to run away.
 
I try and trot and canter pronto. I trotted the second time I got on and cantered a couple of rides after that. But I had someone to lunge me the first few times so bit different.

If you can't get really competent help on the ground I would stop. Your safety is more important.
 
I would agree and say that lungeing while riding would be the way to go. I started my very hot youngster this way. I think it also gives them confidence as they understand what lungeing is and the only new variable you are adding is a rider, I would also have people he trusts doing the lungeing aswell so that he feels more confident. It seems that being ridden free without the safety of the lunge is panicking him a bit.
 
Cellie I'm not saying that MM should be cantering.

MM only the breaker can decide when to canter, and as your only walking, its obviously a way off.

Who walks at his head with you when you're on board?
 
Might be worth trying to find a jockey, or someone who is used to breaking sharp horses all the time. I had a jockey come and help my sharp tb, after being told several times that he may be unbreakable. ( worth saying at this point that an eventer had broken him and got him going nicely, but an injury then meant a long lay off and we had to re-break)

Jockeys seem to relish whatever the horses throw a them, but all they think is forwards, forwards, forwards. I know that the jockey who helped me could sit anything - and believe me, my tb was really throwing some shapes!

We had to get past my horses belief that he could dump his rider at any point, usually when mounting. It only took about half a dozen sessions.

Might be worth investigating.
 
Dont worry I know enough is enough with this particular horse, I said I was sending him back to the owner. It just bugs me not knowing why he did this as I've never had a horse do this before. My own horse is broken so next horse I'll get I feel should be something easy and fun, don't want to back anything for a little while, just fancy some fun now!

Dragging a pallet, maybe Ill suggest that to the owner to try!

Neversaynever - thankfully my csec has healed very well, I don't feel it at all now and even after this second fall, it doesn't hurt at all.
 
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