Youngster with a temper - any advice?

kellybee

kellybee

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OK so my 5 year old pony has a temper. I dont know if its me that causes it, or if its something that can be changed?

You may be surprised to hear that he is an appaloosa, and is not the stereotypical placid, reliable, easy going type I thought he was when I bought him. I tried him twice in February before I bought him, and both times I rode him in open country with another horse next to him. He was very green (wobbly on his feet, never been schooled), but also felt very safe, quite ploddy (he walked slower than the other horse and I had to trot regularly to keep up), but cantered ahead of the other horse when asked and had good brakes. The best thing was that he was literally backed and nothing else, so a clean slate for me to work with. There was an instant gel there, and I was confident that he was the right horse for me. He is bold with flapping tarpaulins, loaded straight onto the lorry when I picked him up (first time travelling), strolled down the ramp when we arrived home, and is pretty much afraid of nothing. Even helicopters flying at very low altitude arent enough to distract him form his haynet. He is incredibly sweet, rolls his eyes around in his head when you scratch his ears, curious by nature...Great buy!!

BUT... since I got him home I've found he is prone to temper tantrums. We realised pretty soon that he couldnt be turned out with mares. And a call to the previous owner confirmed that he had sired several foals before being gelded aged 3. If you take other horses out of his line of sight he literally squeals like a pig, snorts, flares his nostrils, neighs his head off and behaves as though his whole world has ended. He is very sweet natured as a rule, but if he gets upset, everyone knows it.

As an example, I started bringing him in with the first frost, no hard feed yet as he has been out to grass filling out since I bought him (he is handled daily, but hasnt been ridden as he was gangly, immature and clearly had a lot of filling out to do). He would come in with no problems, plodding along next to me on a lead rope, but always eyeing the other horses in the surrounding paddocks. In the mornings when being turned out however he became bolshy, pretty much dragged me out to the paddock and if I got in his way he would barge. He would flick his tail furiously as though mega agitated, and put his ears back, furrowed eyebrows, clearly not happy. Occasionally he would also nip. I figured maybe he was hungry in the mornings, and started to hang two haynets at night, and give a small feed before he was turned out (equilibrium low energy). Miracle, it all stopped. Back to the sweet quiet pony who was fine unless left on his own.

He has always snatched his front feet away when having them picked out (he will literally lash out if you let go of his foot) and when the farrier raised his voice to him he squealed and threatened to kick, tail swishing, ears back. I started lunging him, which he had clearly done before. First few times he was fine. Then he would squeal if I asked him to trot, and again became visibly annoyed. Then one day he was agitated as soon as I pushed him out on the lunge line and tried to double barrel me, then dragged me across the field towards the horses in the paddock next door. Then stood stock still, and refused to move at all. I've gotten on him on the lunge since and he dug his heels in, ignored my commands completely, and is generally more interested in what the other horses are doing next door. I tapped him with the schooling whip, more squealing, head down and a buck. I have walked him around in the paddock off the lunge, and once something has caught his attention, if I ask him to walk on, again a squeal and a buck. The last few days I have tacked him up and led him around the school to try to get him listening, and whilst he is ok with this outdoors, yesterday I brought him into the indoor school (which I only did because it was pelting it down with rain), he again became distressed.

Everyone tells me this is dominant stallion mentality, but I dont know how best to manage this, distract him from what the other horses are doing, and encourage him to listen to me. I feel as though the pony I fell in love with is a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde "kevin the teenager". The bond is gone, and he's head of the herd. Before I bought him he was out with a dozen other horses and bottom of the pecking order. Now he is with a soft old cob and the "field boss", and I feel like he's being authorative with me. My old pony, which I backed and owned for 10 years was a mounted games pony, she was forward going, bouncy, highly strung and temperamental, but she was very different to my new one, and a very different kind of "not novice youngster" altogether. I've tried to be nice with him, I've tried to be dominant, and neither approach makes any difference.

If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions they'd be gratefully received.
 
Bloody hell - sounds a nightmare! But I would say straight off, this isn't a temper tantrum. There's something big happening for your pony and the end result is the behaviour you have reported. I wouldn't mind betting the poor lad is absolutely unable to control his hormones or his anxiety at being moved or some aspect of his life at your yard. Are you totally sure he has been gelded? Numpty question I know but stranger things have happened. If he is definitely gelded, when was it done? An unscrupulous dealer may have recognised his difficult behaviour as a stallion and hed him gelded just weeks before you bought him. Did you see him attempting to cover mares when you brought him home or just being aggressive towards them? It's well worth getting a blood test done to make sure he wasn't a) gelded too early so his testicles weren't properly descended, or b) very recently so he still thinks he's a stallion, or c) he's a rig. It may be that the move has unsettled him more than you know. Did you buy him from the people that bred him? If so he'll only ever have known that. Did he have a strong pair bond where he was before? Are you consistent, firm and fair when teaching him ground manners? When you're sure he's gelded and not a rig, eg blood test, one option is to contact a Kelly Marks/Monty Roberts approved Intelligent Horsemanship trainer to work with both you and the horse to get to the bottom of the problem.

I would say again though, this isn't bad temper, the horse is very very unhappy about something. Good luck in working out what it is x
 
Bloody hell - sounds a nightmare! But I would say straight off, this isn't a temper tantrum. There's something big happening for your pony and the end result is the behaviour you have reported. I wouldn't mind betting the poor lad is absolutely unable to control his hormones or his anxiety at being moved or some aspect of his life at your yard.

I definitely agree with you, and the fact that he threatens to kick as opposed to just lashing out, and squealing instead of exploding says a lot to me. I really do want to work with him, I just am at a loss to how best to approach it.


Are you totally sure he has been gelded? Numpty question I know but stranger things have happened. If he is definitely gelded, when was it done? An unscrupulous dealer may have recognised his difficult behaviour as a stallion and hed him gelded just weeks before you bought him.

He has no testicles, but when I first bought him he had a noticably swollen sheath. The breeder sold him last November to a friend of mine, who backed him when she bought him. She tells me that he lived out with two mares and the rest geldings, and had never tried to cover mares in the four months she had him. She also told me when I bought him that he had sired several foals, but had never displayed any kind of riggish behaviour. I assumed that he was very young when he covered those mares, and his behaviour when i tried him suggested that he was anything but riggish.


Did you see him attempting to cover mares when you brought him home or just being aggressive towards them?

He was mounting mares within 3 or 4 days, and was moved to a field with geldings only. At this point, having noted the swollen sheath I called the seller who checked with the breeder, and she said he had been gelded two year previous (as a 3 yr old).

It's well worth getting a blood test done to make sure he wasn't a) gelded too early so his testicles weren't properly descended, or b) very recently so he still thinks he's a stallion, or c) he's a rig.

Definitely my next port of call!!

It may be that the move has unsettled him more than you know. Did you buy him from the people that bred him? If so he'll only ever have known that.

The breeder had him for four years, the lady I bought him from had him four or five months, and I've had him for 7 months now

Did he have a strong pair bond where he was before?

I have never asked, but I can find out without any trouble. I am pretty sure though that he was a bit of a loner at the last place

Are you consistent, firm and fair when teaching him ground manners?

Yes, I think so. For example if he snatches his feet away, I dont let go, say firmly "NO", and after a few seconds he generally stops. I always praise him immediately when he picks his feet up without snatching them away.

When you're sure he's gelded and not a rig, eg blood test, one option is to contact a Kelly Marks/Monty Roberts approved Intelligent Horsemanship trainer to work with both you and the horse to get to the bottom of the problem.

Thank you, thats not something that occurred to me before, I will definitely make a note of that!!

I would say again though, this isn't bad temper, the horse is very very unhappy about something. Good luck in working out what it is x

Thank you for your suggestions, they're much appreciated
 
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My first impression from your description is that he is simply trying to stamp his authority on everything & everyone around him - and that includes you. He is fine to do stuff with - when it suits him.

It's hard facing down an agressive & dominant horse, I suspect that he needs someone who will take no nonsense from him and if neccessarily get really tough with him. He has to realise he is low down the pecking order - especially in comparison to you.

You need an old fashioned horseman to help on the ground, & get some respect. Do you have any good instrutors who will help you on the ground. You could try an NH associate if not, the issue does sound to me to be one of dominance.
 
kellybee said:
OK so my 5 year old pony has a temper. I dont know if its me that causes it, or if its something that can be changed?
...

BUT... since I got him home I've found he is prone to temper tantrums. We realised pretty soon that he couldnt be turned out with mares. And a call to the previous owner confirmed that he had sired several foals before being gelded aged 3. If you take other horses out of his line of sight he literally squeals like a pig, snorts, flares his nostrils, neighs his head off and behaves as though his whole world has ended. He is very sweet natured as a rule, but if he gets upset, everyone knows it.
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This sounds like what I call "new kid in school" syndrome. A youngster goes from what may well have been his ONLY home - a place where he had his place in the pecking order and accepted discipline - to somewhere totally new. Like kids starting at a new school, some creep in and hide in the back row - hoping not to attract attention - others bounce in and try to become 'Miss Popular'! With youngsters I have sold - and stayed in touch with owners to help them through any teething problems - it appears to be more common in fillies and colts, rather than geldings - but as your chap was gelded late and had sired foals, he obviously retains some of the mental attitude of a stallion. (Gelding a stallion does not necessarily stop him THINKING like a stallion and behaving like a stallion!)

Obviously there's a possibility that he was not gelded properly - and that there is some testosterone still in his system! If he shows signs of stallion-like aggression or attempts to mount mares then I would speak to the vet about getting that checked out. But I suspect he's just throwing his weight around and needs some sensible discipline!
 
I jsut dont understand how sometimes he's ok for me to call the shots and other times he isnt. Ie front feet vs back feet. He will let me push his bum over when its in the way, lead him into a stable when its dark (and he doesnt really want to go in), etc, but other times HE is in charge, not me.
 
My first thought when I read your first post was that you wrote that he wasn't being worked, maybe once you start working him he will get better (assuming he will be ok under saddle)
There are several horses at my yard that are not worked (for various different reasons) and to be quite honest they are menaces! The are bargy to handle and when turned out in the field they pester other horses to play with them and gallop about like demented things. The horses that are worked regularly are the one's that want to just stand and eat!
 
This is the problem though, I can cope with the behaviour on the ground pretty much, its now that I'm bringing him into work that I'm struggling to have him listen to me/work without behaving like a colt off the moors.

He is aggressive and bolshy on the lunge, and under saddle. If I can over come the hurdle of distracting him from his friends and get him to listen/interested in learning then I'll be much happier but thats the hard part when his mind is elsewhere and he fights when I distract him from the other horses.
 
From what you've written he sounds like he's got his hooves under the table and trying to train you to do things his way - rather than the other way round!

I had a section c gelding that had been entire (and run with mares) until he was 5. As far as he was concerned, once the soreness had gone after the gelding he was still a stallion and yes, he was blood tested to see if he was a rig! Until he was put to sleep in his mid twenties he still acted like an entire - so he was never put out in a mixed herd and never allowed to forget his manners and was fine.

IMHO, the bolshyness you've described needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP!
If he's not leading nicely, use a bridle or a control halter.
When you're lunging, if he squeals and bucks get after him until he's moving forwards. Same under saddle.
Waving a leg at you gets a telling off! And so forth.....

The principle is to make it easier and nicer for him to do what you want rather then him deciding or getting distracted.

A girl I know bought herself a 3 yo who was quite a strong minded individual ;) who she spent a year making excuses for ( giving him the benefit of the doubt, he's only a baby - you know the type of thing) Anyway, he ended up being a proper thug with her and scared her senseless. Thing is, if he was handled by anyone who said "I don't think so" and dealt with the massive ensuing tantrum they never had a minutes trouble from him after that.

I'm not recommending that you batter him:eek: but it sounds like firm, totally consistent but fair treatment would help. If a behaviour is not allowed once it's never allowed. If you need him to do something IE lift a foot, then he's got to do it no matter how long it takes. TBF, most animals (and children ;)) respond very well to a regime like that!

HTH
 
People will disagree, but my attitude to this would be that its a battle of nerves.

Basically, every day, every single thing you do with him is on YOUR terms - he NEVER wins the battle.

E.g. if he snatches a foot, pick it up. Again. And again. And again. 10x, 20x, 100x, however long it takes him to do it without any stress. You don't need to yell or grumble or smack him, just continue to pick it up til he chills out. It might take you 3 hours but you HAVE to win the battle.

E.g. if he's a bugger to lead, then lead him in a dually. You must start with the mentality of "you are GOING to do this my way". Repeat ad nauseum in your head! If he drags, spin him in a very tight circle around you, or smack him on the shoulder with the leadrope - anything to shock him out of the head down, power on approach. Again, if circling works circle ad nauseum until he walks properly.

It sounds like he may also be riggy and this is something you need to address with the vets. However, many stallions are beautifully well behaved so its really not an excuse for him!!

xxxx
 
Oh, and with the lunging, he's more than welcome to squeal and buck but you're not going to give in. If you want canter, you bloody ask and so long as he is going forward thats great. The minute you give in, he's won and learnt a way of getting what he wants.

One of the least proud moments of my horsey life was losing my temper with a horse on the lunge. My OHs gelding is a NIGHTMARE to lunge, turns in at every opportunity, if he's in canter he'll turn in and run at you. Anyway, spent half hour trying to avoid being trampled. Eventually lost my temper, big time. Got lunge whip, brought it right up above my head and slammed it down on the floor, so it made that 'crrrracck' sound. His head shot right up, he looked at me and from that moment he knew I meant business. If he tried to turn in, I swished the whip at him, hard (NEVER hitting him, just in front of him so he didn't spin to me). Within 10mins he was paying full attention to me and he's never run in at me again.

Although I'm not proud I lost my temper, sometimes it is just a battle of nerves.
 
Agree TOTALLY with flamehead, this lad is just trying it on and trying to make you do what he wants rather than the other way around. He has arrived and given himself time to settle in, had a bit of time off and now is baulking at having to go back to work on your terms. He is throwing a strop and you need to let him know that ok, he can do that if he wants but it makes no difference, he still has to do as you say. I don't think it will take you long to get on top of it if you make sure you dont ever let him come out on top.

Regarding the mares, sometimes mares almost 'demand' that they are serviced when they are in season and we have several geldings that give in 'oh ok then, if I must, cos I am sick of you waving your bum in my face', the fact he has covered in the past means he knows what to do and is just complying with demands from the mare rather than anything 'stallionish'. I would say his bad behaviour is more that of a youngster than a stallion!
 
cbmcts said:
From what you've written he sounds like he's got his hooves under the table and trying to train you to do things his way - rather than the other way round!

I had a section c gelding that had been entire (and run with mares) until he was 5. As far as he was concerned, once the soreness had gone after the gelding he was still a stallion and yes, he was blood tested to see if he was a rig! Until he was put to sleep in his mid twenties he still acted like an entire - so he was never put out in a mixed herd and never allowed to forget his manners and was fine.

IMHO, the bolshyness you've described needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP!
If he's not leading nicely, use a bridle or a control halter.
When you're lunging, if he squeals and bucks get after him until he's moving forwards. Same under saddle.
Waving a leg at you gets a telling off! And so forth.....

The principle is to make it easier and nicer for him to do what you want rather then him deciding or getting distracted.

A girl I know bought herself a 3 yo who was quite a strong minded individual ;) who she spent a year making excuses for ( giving him the benefit of the doubt, he's only a baby - you know the type of thing) Anyway, he ended up being a proper thug with her and scared her senseless. Thing is, if he was handled by anyone who said "I don't think so" and dealt with the massive ensuing tantrum they never had a minutes trouble from him after that.

I'm not recommending that you batter him:eek: but it sounds like firm, totally consistent but fair treatment would help. If a behaviour is not allowed once it's never allowed. If you need him to do something IE lift a foot, then he's got to do it no matter how long it takes. TBF, most animals (and children ;)) respond very well to a regime like that!

HTH
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Endorse the above 100%.

I will add that I worked with a spotted pony years ago who answers the description that yours does to a tee, even including the siring foals & late gelding. He did come right in the end, but the key was not giving him an inch, & NEVER EVER EVER making excuses for his behavior. If what he did was wrong it was made very clear there & then.

Good luck, & keep posting updates with your progress !
 
good luck with this, I have a 15 yr old thats similar, hes imported and seems to have been allowed to get away with the majority of ''I dont want to so I wont'' moments. His stable manners are brilliant, but working/lunging
- he will buck and kick towards your face
being left alone woaa as you said nostrils flared/anixety hits the roof, weaving, sweating etc anyone who handles him has to be firm otherwise he will walk all over them being 17.2 aswell.


Anyway I digress, hope you sort your fella out :)
 
His behaviour sounds just like my last horse who was gelded at 5 and had covered a couple of mares. He sounds like he has acquired the stallion 'mindset' and even having had the relevent bits chopped off he will probably never loose it.

As others have said I would go for fair, firm and consistent handling. He doesn't sound like the type of horse you are ever going to be able to bully into doing something he doesn't want to so don't even think about trying as it will only end in a fight!!

I would definitely suggest getting the help of a Monty Roberts/Kelly Marks trainer. One tip I found helpful from them was to keep taking little breaks and just going for a very short walk when teaching or reinforcing any new lessons. It sounds really simple but it definitely worked on my horse and seemed to give him time to let the lesson sink in and stay interested.
 
Thanks so much the advice!

Just to be sure I had his back checked yesterday, had him measured, and have a new fitted saddle on order. The last few days he has been as quiet as a lamb, hasnt put a foot wrong, feet been great, no pulling, nipping, nothing.

Then I brought him in last night and as he walked past a digger in the menage he flipped, bounced, and bombed off after a mare that was in the field he was being led through. I didnt let go of him... she squealed, lashed out good and proper, and he then walked in just fine, albeit on his toes. He walked past her just fine yesterday without so much as a sniff!! Then this morning the lady that does my livery had the same problem turning him out, I just got off the phone to her, she said that kind of behaviour in the mud where its not easy to dodge when he prats around is dangerous so is going to turn him out closer to the yard where he doesnt need to be led past anyone to come in. I think I'm going to invest in a chifney and a bucket of "rigstop", and now his back is confirmed as ok knuckle down with the work.

I do try hard to be firm with him. And I believe I am consistent... Am hoping that the rig stop and persistence with work now will calm him down a little, will let you know what happens

Thanks again folks :D
 
Does sound so much like a rig trying in a youngster way to throw his weight around. Firm but fair is the only way to deal with 'proper' boys & get respect. I would definately get bloodtest done as he could have retained some material (including a whole undecended testicle) inside. Okay you can see nothing outside, but check there's nothing producing hormones inside. He is not only acting as a rig, but a rude rig by the way he approached that mare .You have to be so careful on the end on a lead rope (may be better to lead in a lunge line), as if he drags you behind a non-receptive mare you may get your head kicked in (or imagine how you'd feel if the lady putting him out got seriously injured). Don't take this lightly, please do you best to protect yourself & others whilst this boys behaviour is being sorted. Stallions make the most wonderful, mannered riding horses, once they know exactly where they stand, & what is expected from them (such as only covering in a particular bridle & riding in a different one so by which is put on they know what job they are going to do). Until you know otherwise the safest option is to assume he is a rig & work with him accordingly.

Are you sure he hadn't been worked hard beforehand & deliberately underfed when you rode him to make him quieter? So often I have seen people buy skinny horses saying how lovely & quiet they are. A few weeks of good grub they look better & their personalities transform into something far livelier
 
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I have not read through the replies so I may be repeating what others have said.

Apart from no doubt going through a 'Kevin stage' he'll be testing his boundries at every opportunity, you must ensure who wears the trousers at all times.

Mean while if you have not done so already, have him rig tested, see what comes back, if his hormones are playing him up he will always be a like a bear with a soar head...and pretty much most of the time specially around other horses but he will at times take this out on you, this is where you must draw the line, what goes on in the field is one thing, what goes on in the yard/stable with his master is two different ball games and you need to set him straight asap before he injures you and really does end up on the problem horse scrap heap of today.

Ground work and lots of of it, tuff love and a hell of a lot of it.

Global Herbs Rig Calm, if he's not a rig, stick him on it anyway to see if it makes any difference, it won't help a great deal but it will settle him a little and with some good handling he'll learn where his place is.
 
pip6 said:
Does sound so much like a rig trying in a youngster way to throw his weight around. Firm but fair is the only way to deal with 'proper' boys & get respect. I would definately get bloodtest done as he could have retained some material (including a whole undecended testicle) inside. Okay you can see nothing outside, but check there's nothing producing hormones inside. He is not only acting as a rig, but a rude rig by the way he approached that mare .You have to be so careful on the end on a lead rope (may be better to lead in a lunge line), as if he drags you behind a non-receptive mare you may get your head kicked in (or imagine how you'd feel if the lady putting him out got seriously injured). Don't take this lightly, please do you best to protect yourself & others whilst this boys behaviour is being sorted. Stallions make the most wonderful, mannered riding horses, once they know exactly where they stand, & what is expected from them (such as only covering in a particular bridle & riding in a different one so by which is put on they know what job they are going to do). Until you know otherwise the safest option is to assume he is a rig & work with him accordingly.

Are you sure he hadn't been worked hard beforehand & deliberately underfed when you rode him to make him quieter? So often I have seen people buy skinny horses saying how lovely & quiet they are. A few weeks of good grub they look better & their personalities transform into something far livelier
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Have to agree,he could well be a rig,which was my 1st thought. Get the vet to do blood tests etc to be sure.
 
i totally agree with the others, get him tested for being a rig, at least you will know for sure one way or another then.
if he is then ask the vet for the best supplement to put him on for it, it may well be the making of him!

have you thought about clicker training with him, especially when it comes to picking his feet up?
there's loads of articles on line about it and i've seen and heard lots of good things.

be consistent and firm at all times with him. don't ever stop when he says, even if you are there all night trying to get him to do something YOU want.

maybe see if there is anyone who has the experience of dealing with this type of behaviour out there and ask them to come and help you with him.

you could also maybe find a good person who can reschool him for you and maybe teach him (firm but nicely) some manners and then will work with you too although the downside to that would be him moving to another yard and then back to where he is now.

good luck though and hope you can sort him out.
 
I have not read all the posts, but he sounds very similar to my old boy, it took three long hard years and lots of work with a dam good instructor, as others have said you need to keep going at things untill he does it uyour way. Were in the country are you people may be able to recomend someone, I know I couldnt of turned my big beast around without the help of my instructor. You need to get on and start with a consistant managment approach asap. I was refused livery by a number of big yards because of my boys behaviour in the first two years of having him. Even the yard that sold him to me refused to even pop his morning feed in. Thats not a good situation to be in.
 
Lots of good advice given, but just another thought- perhaps the yard environment is difficult for him to cope with ? I have found that with my more sensitive horses, being liveried on yards with small paddocks for individual and pairs, made them very anxious. Once moved to yards with herd turnout and large fields, the difference was very marked. My gelding was cut at 4yrs after he had shired a few foals and is fine in mixed company, but is happiest with a boys only field. Only thing I need to be aware of, is when he is near another stallion, as he reverts to his stallion mindset and feels he has to protect 'his' mares.
My latest horse, a mare, was labelled 'possessed', 'psycho' and dangerous until I moved her to grass livery with a herd and within a short time became the most sane, sweet horse I've ever had.
 
I've got an Appy mare and she's exactly the same. She's constantly testing me / my boundaries / am I the boss ? If I'm not she gets unsure and then explodes, she's been a lot calmer this year as I've done A LOT of work with her to ensure she understands that I am the boss and she doesn't have to work everything out herself.

Picking feet out was dangerous this time last year - well actually most things were tying her up on the yard resulted in her rearing and exploding, kicking out constantly, charging and biting. Working slowly and carefully with her I've finally got to the point of her picking her own foot up as I walk to the leg. Now she trusts me she's eager to show me what she can do. The trust took a long time to be given though and still disappears every now and then.

Moving yards helped, she's much better living on a quieter yard that's more relaxed and she picks up any tenseness from me very quickly. She hates being on a yard by herself - if my other horse is still in the field for e.g. although is fine working by herself. She loves living out 24/7 although needs a boss horse in the field otherwise she tries to take control and her behaviour regresses a bit.

Feedwise I've removed all sugar/molasses from her diet as well and that's really helped.
 
flamehead said:
People will disagree, but my attitude to this would be that its a battle of nerves.

Basically, every day, every single thing you do with him is on YOUR terms - he NEVER wins the battle.

E.g. if he snatches a foot, pick it up. Again. And again. And again. 10x, 20x, 100x, however long it takes him to do it without any stress. You don't need to yell or grumble or smack him, just continue to pick it up til he chills out. It might take you 3 hours but you HAVE to win the battle.

E.g. if he's a bugger to lead, then lead him in a dually. You must start with the mentality of "you are GOING to do this my way". Repeat ad nauseum in your head! If he drags, spin him in a very tight circle around you, or smack him on the shoulder with the leadrope - anything to shock him out of the head down, power on approach. Again, if circling works circle ad nauseum until he walks properly.

It sounds like he may also be riggy and this is something you need to address with the vets. However, many stallions are beautifully well behaved so its really not an excuse for him!!

xxxx
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I could not agree more!!!!

Nearly all young horses will test you and especially as he is now boss in the field. A huge difference will be noticed if you can find a horse to boss him around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have gone this way myself several times so I know it works
 
I bought a 7yr old gelding who had similar tendencies to yours, and I thought he was a rig because he used to mount my mare.

By that age, he'd learnt exactly what he needed to do to 'walk all over his human' and he was a total arse.

But I did sort him out by being slightly aggressive in my manner and not taking any crap. Did as Flamehead mentions really. Repeat, repeat REPEAT until he did it MY way! I had to pump myself up and be direct with everything, and then he was a lamb. Almost grateful that he didn't have to be the boss any more and could fall in line with me.

You have to be one step ahead the whole time and not stand for a moments' nonsense. I'll admit I found it exhausting as it wasn't in my nature to be terse and agressive the whole time, but it was the only thing that worked
 
Thanks again for the input. He is now fenced off next to a 5yr old 13.2 gelding and a 16hh moody mare. He plays with the pony over the fence, and the mare has a love/hate relationship with him. She really puts him in his place, albeit over the fence, but she will also never move too far from him. She calls to him if she's brought in first, and likewise he does the same, they are also stabled next to one another... He has never made any attempt to break into their field which is reassuring. I also used a control headcollar for a few days but soon realised he wasnt planning on causing any kind of harm to myself or the livery lady, so we have resorted back to a normal headcollar without incident.

Amazingly, after a fanciful, wholehearted rodeo display when i turned him out in there for the first time he switched from stroppy kevin the teenager to being the ultimate perfectly mannered gentleman overnight.

I read a few of Kelly and Monty's books (Perfect manners being the one that has helped me change my way of thinking completely) and adopted the attitude that I needed to be relaxed around him, whilst prepared to manage irrational behaviour, and firm when it occurrs, the results are staggering.

The change is phenomenal, with his feet, his headcollar, etc. Before when I led him in his feed bucket was always inside the door of his stable and he would stop dead half way through the door and shove his head in the bucket. Now, he will walk past it, turn on command and stand whilst I bolt the door and remove his headcollar before he even attempts to go for his feed.

I have found that leading him on a loose lead rein results in him walking calmly next to me, whereas before I would automatically hold him with my hand under his chin, elbow in shoulder, prepared to battle the 700 yards back to the farm. He seems to be a lot happier for being closer to the yard and having a regular routine. I have purposely broken his routine on a few occasions in the last week, for example feeding him before i pick his feet out, leading him a different route around the stable block to the yard etc, and he has shown no discomfort let alone daft behaviour. Have also made a point of turning him in circles in hand, leading him around the field prior to bringing him in, stood at the gate and picked his feet up knowing full well he just wants his feed, and all without incident.

Yesterday the Rigstop I ordered arrived, and the menage was completed too, therefore I think once the snow has thawed we'll begin lunge work again, but in the meantime I've concentrated on the in hand manners and bond - I honestly think I've earned his respect over the last few weeks. I have a feeling the work is where the battle of nerves will begin, but I feel as though he has accepted that I call the shots, will update again once I've had him back on the lunge :)
 
Well, Global herbs Rig calmer has been a blessing. His sheath has shrunk to normal size, and is a bit saggy now (before it was puffy, and ridiculously noticeable). Where he used to always watch the mares, they were his first and every thought from a bystanders point of view, he doesnt bother with them AT ALL. He has also taken a huge dislike to one of the mares stablerd next door to him, which I have never ever seen in him until recently.

He clearly likes a routine, and found the first few days I rode him he hated me. Tail swishing, ears back, rodeo central. But after a few days, once he started listening I actually looked forward to getting on him, and he started listening to me instead of concentrating his efforts on getting me off, and back to his dinner.

I am very pleased with how its going so far, and thankfully he has done nothing yet to make me want to get off and stay off. He still has a temper and he still gets angry, but he is a very different horse to what he was before, an I'm glad the days are getting longer so that we can get some proper learning time in... he seems keen :)
 
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