Youngster with not enough engine?

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Charla

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I'm after other people's experiences when they have bought unbroken youngsters...obviously you never quite know what you are going to get under saddle despite seeing loose movement, loose jump and temperament.

Has anyone ever backed one and felt there was not enough engine behind? I'm talking about a 4 year old. Done lots of building up work, hacking, lunging etc. Now asking for a bit more and started schooling in the menege, but compared to others I have had from starting, there doesn't seem to be much power/engine. Not a naturally forward thinking horse. Has anyone had a fairly backward youngster that has ended up forward thinking with the right schooling? Has anyone written off a youngster for your competition needs due to this?
I know she is still weak and very young and needs loads of schooling, strength, fittening etc, but at what stage do you know?

Interested to hear other's experiences.

Thank you
 
Yes - turned out to have PSSM.

First few weeks under saddle weren't bad, little bit backwards but I put that down to being a baby. Gave her a few weeks in a field assuming she needed a break, and she was awful when she came back into work. The giveaway for me that it was pain related was the fact that when I asked for upwards transition I got the 'try'. So she would transition into trot fine, but just a few paces in I'd feel like she'd left her back end halfway down the school.

Always much worse under saddle, but then that's weight on top of sore muscles so understandable.

I'd run yours past your vet to rule out anything physical.
 
Yes, my 9yo gelding had no engine to speak of at all until relatively recently. In his case he's a big framed horse with a muscle condition (pssm1), so he needs a lot of muscle to move like a normal unschooled 4yo and building that muscle is harder than it should be. And then there is the psychological aspect that the condition when not controlled (which it wasn't really until about age 6), also means he was probably always in some level of discomfort, particularly in his bum muscles. So naturally he was inclined to just use his shoulder and under neck muscles to cart himself around with.

He was never really backward thinking, as he was always quite obedient.... If you wanted to trot you could with a light touch, but it would be the slowest trot you've ever experienced, like moving through sludge.

I've had him from a 3.5yo and backed him just before he turned 4. If I had been desperate to go out competing then I wouldn't have bothered getting him to where he is now I don't think. He would've been just a happy ploddy hacker. But I'm glad I have continued with him as he is a joy to school these days
 
SEL said:
I'd run yours past your vet to rule out anything physical.
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always worth checking out. Friend had a lovely young horse that she backed but it never got past the wibbly wobbly slow stage and turned out to be a wobbler :(

Is it a big horse?

My projects have tended to be a bit like this (guess there's a reason no one has progressed them before now), current one has fab movement on the lunge and is backward under saddle but I'm fairly confident this is a training thing as she is also a bit crooked and holds her breath until I get her straight, and then we are finding the turbo :D
 
DabDab said:
He was never really backward thinking, as he was always quite obedient.... If you wanted to trot you could with a light touch, but it would be the slowest trot you've ever experienced, like moving through sludge.

I've had him from a 3.5yo and backed him just before he turned 4. If I had been desperate to go out competing then I wouldn't have bothered getting him to where he is now I don't think. He would've been just a happy ploddy hacker. But I'm glad I have continued with him as he is a joy to school these days
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it's so nice when horses like yours find their right owners :)

Kira was also one of those moving through sludge horses, I was so sure that she must have PSSM after reading thread after thread on here but none of the diet changes made any difference to her and she was just stuck on the spot in her head. Took me a good while faffing about before reaching that conclusion. If only they could talk :(
 
Yes, another with PSSM. Simply refused to trot after about six weeks into ridden work.

Hugely improved with vitamin E and alcar, but always a backward thinking horse.
 
Yes I have seen this several times .
One was a big and beauiful four year old who at four really worried me she did work her four year old summer doing light short stuff six days a week .
Time dictated she went out for the winter when I got started again she was a different horse .
Another always felt under powered and had bony changes in both hocks
Another could not absorb copper the change when it was jabbed with copper for cattle was enormous.
If it where me I would have a problems with performance type workup from a vet that specialises in this type of work . I think it’s best to know it’s not fair on the horse if it's quietly carrying an issue and it’s your time as well working on a horse that will never get where you need it too .
However I understand that if you insure your horse this a problem and you might not want to go there too soon.
Of course sometimes it’s just their mind set and it’s always worse addressing this can you change things to make things different diet , work pattern load up and travel to hack more less time in the school change work patterns so perhaps try hack out into the school ten hard minutes walk off etc etc the list is long .
I had one who was really helped by feeding myoplast I not everybody rates this but it’s helped mine horses really noticeably in several cases .
Not an easy one this some do just grow out of it but some will become unsound and some just don’t want to competition horses but will make lovely hacks for non competitive people or hunters lots of not up for competition horses make the best hunters .
 
Another one with PSSM. Immaculate SJ breeding on both sides, started promisingly as a 4 yo, but when I expected him to kick up a gear, he went down one. It took me a looooong while to get to the bottom of it, and once I did I had to sell him for peanuts as a happy hacker.
 
I had a 4-year old Welsh x TB who I bought unbroken to back and produce for showjumping. He was extremely sharp doing all the ground work but the first couple of months on board he was alarmingly backwards and I had a horrible feeling that he wasn’t going to be up for the job I wanted. Fortunately, as his balance and strength improved, he found another gear and turned out to be an incredibly forward ride.
 
Bought a forward-going ID with really good jumping bloodlines. The more work he did, the quieter he got. I couldn't understand it as his breeding was quite sharp (for an Irish Draught lol!). I gave him plenty of time off, to grow and mature - he probably did about 6 months work in total over a period of 18 months.

Sold him as a quiet hack with potential to hunt for a decent amount of money, so the purchasers x-rayed him. Turned out he had bony changes in both pastern joints and had a bone chip floating around his pedal bone. Never took a "lame" step in his life, and passed a stringent 5 stage vetting prior to the x-rays, but it did explain why he didn't want to go forward.....
 
I only got mine 7 months ago when he was five. He was incredibly lazy and quite a few people passed him up at auction as they'd found him too lazy on tryout.

6 months later and he is going like a boeing. He was unsure of himself and because he's so big, I think he just lacked balance. Even now when he isn't sure or something gets hard he slows down for a bit and does it in slo-mo first, then shifts up a gear :D I've learned to accept this and think it will improve but for now, it's almost like an insecurity thing.

With him though, we've recently found that what works best was getting him to realise that if my leg comes off his side he better MOVE because it is going to come down on his side very hard. All I have to do now if he loses some steam is lift my legs off his side very slightly and he quickly finds his 'go' gear. The rest of the time they just drape along his barrel and he keeps his own momentum. What a pleasure!


Having said that, I had an OTTB who went through a phase of getting very lazy and refusing to canter. Would back off and buck and refuse to do it. Cracked it eventually but he would always buck the first few strides. Eventually got over that too but never felt he was willing to push by himself. Took him to the vet and turned out he had severe front limb issues - he was PTS the following week.

Could be that she just needs time but I would certainly do an investigation with a vet than persevere for months on end to find out that it's something physical.
 
I take back my original concern! My 4 year old is now very forward in the school, in fact I am needing to slow things down if anything, although love the enthusiasm. Amazing how things change after some forwards work and lots of transitions!
 
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