youngsters - 4/5 yos - how confident a rider do u have to be..

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silverstar

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to bring one on? Stupid question but I went to see a horse last weekend and it bolted with me in menage and I couldnt stop him which put me off him and needless to say Im not buying him. Now Im not the most confident rider and someone suggested that with my miniscule budget I may be better getting a youngster (a broken one). Ive had horses for 10 plus years and have competed them and schooled them. One horse I had was very behind the leg so I did lots of transitions to get him more forward going which worked.

So how confident a rider do you have to be to bring one on?
 
Pretty confident i'd say. I've had 6 or 7 youngsters and get more confident with each. You need to be unbothered by events like you've mentioned as you can never rule out the fact that a young horse may do things like this, and when they do you need to be able to sit tight and quietly and i think almost 'ignore' the episode and carry on as you were.

Youngsters are very rewarding, all mine have turned out fab. I must admit there have been times when i've wondered what i'm doing but bringing home your first rosette on a baby you have produced means double than on one who has been produced for you, i feel like a proud parent!

It's a buyers market at the moment so don't rule out older more experienced horses. If this is what you feel comfortable with then stick to your guns. An unhappy experience with a youngster can lead to a massive dent to your confidence and a young horse with issues. Good Luck :)
 
confident!
I made the mistake of buying mine as a 4yo, I was only 15, thought I could do it as had lots of support etc. But I used to hate riding him, now I think he's the best thing ever! And as a 4 yo he was fab but when he turned 5/6 he got mega teenage strops and destroyed my confidence! Thankfully i was completely in love with him so have managed to work through it with help and support but I can't say its been a happy ending for friends in similar situations! And it took me 2-3 yrs at least to build confidence back up and is easily knocked now!
Having said all this you get some lovely youngsters who will grown into fab horses (boring!)! mine just has the biggest personality, but he's very cheeky and will take advantage!

Good luck!! sorry if i've made it sound awful!!
 
Young horses also need time to come on - so why not look for an older horse who has the t shirt and can take you out now? and a well cared for horse who is in their late teens will keep going!
 
I think the main question is, how much handling has the youngster had, what has it done/seen/temperment. I think its more important to be sensible with youngsters, if the ground work has gone in, the youngster will have more trust in you, i would have a 2/3 year old unbroken any day, to a 4/5 year old that i didnt know its history, being a confident rider isnt the main thing for a youngster.
 
no becca-norey you havent, I wish I was a more confident rider. It looks like I'll be upping the age limit of horses Im looking at then, coz it was 10 maybe 11. I dont want a horse thats well into its teens just in case the worst happened and I had to sell. So I was thinking maybe up to 12 years old. Mind you he was a very nervy horse.

thanks ameeyal - now Im confused.
 
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You need to be quite confident in my opinion :) In fact, I think it helps if you are leaning towards the gung ho category :p

A young horse will most likely be lacking in confidence, so you need to have more confidence than than the horse!
Also, you need to have the confidence to know when to ignore a situation, and when not too :)
But you really need to make sure you have enough self confidence to be sure that what-ever you are doing, you are doing it correctly; lessons help a lot!

A young horse costs more in time and effort than one that has been there done that, who will cost more in buying.

Young horses are very rewarding! Nothing beats the satisfaction you feel when you ride your self-produced horse at a show and do well :)

Having said all that, all I have ever ridden have been young horses (4,5 year olds) so I don't really know much else! I am getting better at bringing them on, as well, as with the more experience I have I know what I want to produce, and act accordingly :)

Some people have the "gift" of being able to ride young horses, others dont, often you dont know till you try!

If you were getting something young, I would reccomend a low budget horse that you can "ruin" in effect - I think it was Kerilli that said you always ruin the first horse you have - which I think is very true, I certainly did!

:)

If you are lacking in confidence, I would stick to your guns and get an older horse! :)
 
penfold said:
no becca-norey you havent, I wish I was a more confident rider. It looks like I'll be upping the age limit of horses Im looking at then, coz it was 10 maybe 11. I dont want a horse thats well into its teens just in case the worst happened and I had to sell. So I was thinking maybe up to 12 years old. Mind you he was a very nervy horse.
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You don't have to be super confident to ride SOME 4 year olds! I've got a 4 year old here at present who was backed at Christmas and has been quietly ridden away since. Almost ANYONE could ride him - he just doesn't know what naughty is! And I sold a 3 year old a couple of months ago who is as close to bombproof as ANY horse comes - his new owner had never had a youngster before and she hasn't had a moment's worry with him - has even let her 9 year old daughter ride him in the school (he's 16 hh!)

What you DO have to be sure of is that the youngster has been properly handled and produced - by someone who knows what they're doing! A good youngster is NOT cheap - but they're a worthwhile investment as you have a VERY good chance that - barring accidents - they'll stay sound for a LONG time! And you're not undoing other people's mistakes!
 
I think that it's having knowledge and experience which gives you confidence

I wouldn't say I was the most confident of riders, but having sat on many many horses over the years, I can anticipate how the majority of horses will react in most situations and therefore appear confident

If you are spooked by an older horse shooting off in the arena, then a young horse is not for you - you can get sensible young horses and nutty older ones but that's down to their temperament. Find yourself an older horse with lots of experience which will make it more accepting of strange situations

Don't discount teenage horses - you'll get lots of fun out of a well maintained one, which can teach you lots and give you more knowledge and experience
 
I'm not a very confident rider on some horse, if I know the horse I'm riding and it plays up I'm fine but on a random horse and it rears or tanks I get scared. I back youngsters quite often and started with little ponies about 10-13hh and gradually started working on bigger ponies to small horses.

I think you have to be experienced know what your doing and if the horse plays up you can put them in there place, I can do this but even though I don't look or act nervous inside I'm pettrified!

However, you can get some 4/5yo which act like 10yo and they are worth there weight in gold especially as your first youngster don't be to ambitious get one that suits your ability.

I know this post doesn't make much sense trying to write historical investigation at the same time, not easy :p
 
The trick with youngsters is, use your brain.
Look for basic good temprement, nothing too smart or to sharp, and then do everything by the book, no short cuts, gadgets etc. Never let them know they are stronger than you, never give them an out or put them in a situation that they find it easier to say no than say yes and do not work them until they are tired and bored.
I buy youngsters as I could never afford made ones and as long as you pick one that is bought for temprement and not looks and have a bit of help at the start its not to hard to make a resonable job.
' a novice horse makes you look a novice rider', so be prepared to have very little steering and the first time you canter do it up hill when its tired!
 
JanetGeorge said:
You don't have to be super confident to ride SOME 4 year olds! I've got a 4 year old here at present who was backed at Christmas and has been quietly ridden away since. Almost ANYONE could ride him - he just doesn't know what naughty is! And I sold a 3 year old a couple of months ago who is as close to bombproof as ANY horse comes - his new owner had never had a youngster before and she hasn't had a moment's worry with him - has even let her 9 year old daughter ride him in the school (he's 16 hh!)

What you DO have to be sure of is that the youngster has been properly handled and produced - by someone who knows what they're doing! A good youngster is NOT cheap - but they're a worthwhile investment as you have a VERY good chance that - barring accidents - they'll stay sound for a LONG time! And you're not undoing other people's mistakes!
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Thank you Janet George, was just typing a very similar response when my laptop crashed, totally agree! I've recently been hacking a friends 19 year old horse who is still really spooky because that is just his nature an he will never change. Good natured youngsters would be my preference. Penfold I think its hard to stick to firm criteria, keep trying them, you will know when you find one you can gel with and trust then you can work together and build up your confidence
 
I think you have to be quite confident, and from what you are saying...you are not the most confident rider...maybe you should look into upping your age bracket?

It does depend however, some youngsters are complete dopes on ropes and
If you are looking at a few youngsters then maybe go and try them out. Some are very easy and I know a few novices that have bought lovely 4/5 year old lovely cobby types. Also if you do up your age bracket then there are so many older horses that will give you endless confidence and could go on for years given the right care!!

Be honest about your abilities, and look for a good temperament etc. Be firm and don't go for it because it looks flashy. Also having lots of lessons with a good instructor can help. I feel nervous riding out some youngsters by myself, but more confident when I have someone on the ground barking instructions at me.

Go and try them out, it depends with every horse. You could find the perfect well behaved 4/5 year old, however there are also complete nutty older horses out there too.
 
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JanetGeorge is spot on. I'm on my second just backed four year old and also had a backed late but ridden out five year old and all were well started, had sensible temperaments and were totally safe and straightforward to ride. You just have to remember to take everything one step at a time and remember they are still taking things in.

I've also had a four year old and a six year old who have been passed through a couple/a few hands since backing and they have come with issues. It doesn't take much for horses to get screwed up. IMO the best type to buy is a horse newly started by a good producer, but that good start will probably be reflected in the price of the horse.
 
confident yes and competant!!!! You have to be fair but consistant!! Not for the faint hearted i would say. Youngsters get all their information and confidence in their surroundings and ridden work (and on the ground) from you and if you have that slight element of doubt<> you can be sure the young horse will pick up on it!!!
 
Flame_ said:
IMO the best type to buy is a horse newly started by a good producer, but that good start will probably be reflected in the price of the horse.
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Agree. Some of the lovely youngsters with good temperaments I have been looking at are more than my budget I had set for a nice slightly older all rounder type. And fair dos as they have been started correctly, are of a nice type and have not been messed up. The producer also has to somehow make a profit from breeding and producing lovely youngsters. So I wouldn't expect a too many nice 4/5 year olds to be selling a lot less than 6/7/8 year old all rounder types.
 
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A four or five year old can be very dopey. Especially the bigger ones, as they don't mature until later. Many dopey four/five year olds can be much more difficult and spirited at six/seven when they're feeling more confident and grown up!

I'd say you should be confident for a youngster. You may get away with it, but more likely you won't, and your confidence would take a hit, along with a youngster getting ruinied...
 
Im not a fantastic rider, but I have to have a horse I believe in. I can forgive "baby" mistakes but not mega strops, take today

Him: Ohhh my god Mum, thats a monster in that their hedge.
Me: Nooo its just a walkers crisp packet.
Him: You sure, you think its better if I walk sideways past it just in case rarrr monster leaps out???
Me: Noooo its a crisp packet
Him: Ok but, what if I prance past?? That will scare any scary Rarrr Monsters away.
Me: Look hoss, we can stand here all day or just walk past the crisp packet...No monsters I promise.
Him: Ok then, lets walk past, but Im looking at it all the way

Five mins later

Him: Ohhh my god Mum, thats a monster in that their hedge.

I think you get my drift, patience, lots of it lol
 
callysplace said:
Im not a fantastic rider, but I have to have a horse I believe in. I can forgive "baby" mistakes but not mega strops, take today

Him: Ohhh my god Mum, thats a monster in that their hedge.
Me: Nooo its just a walkers crisp packet.
Him: You sure, you think its better if I walk sideways past it just in case rarrr monster leaps out???
Me: Noooo its a crisp packet
Him: Ok but, what if I prance past?? That will scare any scary Rarrr Monsters away.
Me: Look hoss, we can stand here all day or just walk past the crisp packet...No monsters I promise.
Him: Ok then, lets walk past, but Im looking at it all the way

Five mins later

Him: Ohhh my god Mum, thats a monster in that their hedge.

I think you get my drift, patience, lots of it lol
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Haha brilliant. Or like my youngster who will canter sideways every 5 minutes because of invisible monsters in the hedge, or be trotting along and then stop dead. Luckily he holds his head up high when he can see a monster so I don't slip off over his head :)
 
:)
Honey08 said:
A four or five year old can be very dopey. Especially the bigger ones, as they don't mature until later. Many dopey four/five year olds can be much more difficult and spirited at six/seven when they're feeling more confident and grown up!

I'd say you should be confident for a youngster. You may get away with it, but more likely you won't, and your confidence would take a hit, along with a youngster getting ruinied...
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Totally agree with this, my OH has a 5 year old cb who is slow maturing and i`ve never met a duller horse, she is so chilled and relaxed and takes everything in her stride! Easy to hack out and pretty much bomb proof, doesn`t bat an eye lid at anything. Can be lazy but good in every other way. I`m waiting for her to hit seven and then turn inot a nut case :)

Not all youngsters are the same, me and my OH were lucky with our first two, they were easy to back and both hack out confidently. We both had a good ten year break from riding, and my oh is a lot more confident than me, but my mare (4 year old) has given me so much more confidence the last few months. However our new youngster is going to be a totally different kettle of fish, he`s sharp as hell and knows exactly what he`s doing...but have another two years before he`s being ridden:)
 
JanetGeorge said:
You don't have to be super confident to ride SOME 4 year olds!
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^^^ This.

I've had 3 youngsters and all have been very different.
With my first, youth and the unknown were my friend :).
The second one needed a supremely confident rider. I didn't think I was that confident but when nobody else would ride him, I had to. I did a damn good job of not being worried by him :cool:.
The one I have now, I've had sine 3 1/2 (now 5) and she has yet to put a foot wrong. Yes, she has had babyish behaviour but I would say anybody could ride her she is that genuine. I am proud to have such a mannerly horse :).

Good luck in whatever you choose :).
 
I think you have to be reasonably confident to bring on a young horse, although obviously temperament has to be taken into account. Yes, a flighty 15yo horse might need a more confident rider than a placid four year old. But, if you have two horses of similar temperament, but one is four years old and one is twelve years old, I think you can get away with less confidence on the twelve year old.

I like to think of a horse's life experience as being like a glass of water with good positive experiences being clear water and bad upsetting experiences being a coloured dye dropped into the clear water. If you have an experienced mature horse with plenty of good experiences behind him, then you have a full glass of clear water and if you have an upset in some way, then one drop of coloured dye won't change the colour of the clear water much. It is just one negative experience amongst a horde of positive ones.

However, with the young horse, his glass of life experience may only have a couple of centimetres of clear water in, so one bad experience (or one drop of coloured dye) will have a much greater influence (the clear water will take on quite a coloured hue).

A not very confident rider can often result in a horse having negative experiences of situations like traffic, shows etc., just because the horse picks up on the rider's nerves. If the horse starts to react nervously to a situation and shoots off, or spins or similar, the less confident rider will not always have the courage to stay calm and ride through it.

And I do agree with the poster above who says that well produced four or five year olds are often just as expensive as similar slightly older horses, because of the fact they are a reasonably blank canvas and also they still have the elusive 'potential'. Whereas by the time a horse is nine or so, people have a much better idea of what the horse's limits are.
 
callysplace said:
Im not a fantastic rider, but I have to have a horse I believe in. I can forgive "baby" mistakes but not mega strops, take today

Him: Ohhh my god Mum, thats a monster in that their hedge.
Me: Nooo its just a walkers crisp packet.
Him: You sure, you think its better if I walk sideways past it just in case rarrr monster leaps out???
Me: Noooo its a crisp packet
Him: Ok but, what if I prance past?? That will scare any scary Rarrr Monsters away.
Me: Look hoss, we can stand here all day or just walk past the crisp packet...No monsters I promise.
Him: Ok then, lets walk past, but Im looking at it all the way

Five mins later

Him: Ohhh my god Mum, thats a monster in that their hedge.

I think you get my drift, patience, lots of it lol
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See that wouldnt bother me but the being tanked off with would.
 
some are ok... i have a 4 year old who is fine :)

shes soo quiet people think shes 10+ lol


others i know are totally forward and knock peoples confidence
 
greymare said:
Thank you Janet George, was just typing a very similar response when my laptop crashed, totally agree! I've recently been hacking a friends 19 year old horse who is still really spooky because that is just his nature an he will never change. Good natured youngsters would be my preference. Penfold I think its hard to stick to firm criteria, keep trying them, you will know when you find one you can gel with and trust then you can work together and build up your confidence
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Some good advice there, thanks.
 
its not just about confidence but experience to read a horse to understand why they are behaving how they are etc and how to correct comes with experience. me? I have the experience but not the confidence lol 41yrs on still knock what I know lol hey oh but what heck I love my little baby :)
 
confident!! and i agree with the comment that knowledge makes you confident though some depends on what type of young horse you get.
at Uni they have a new highly strung young warmblood who is maaaassiiiive. I rode him last week and was understanding with him as he was a bit gauping at things and his canter was very unbalanced and did this werid half trot and half canter thing.
This week another girl rode him who you could tell was nervous. in canter transitions she kept pulling on his mouth which stopped him going forward and he got confused by the aids, her hands were telling him to stop and her legs forward = buckaroooo, well he just did a tiny buck but where she was tense she just came straight off. consequently when she got back on and went on the other rein she was so tense again and he wouldnt canter and she let him keep coming back to trot.
I would say for they're own good you have to be very experienced with different types of horses and confident.
 
Flame_ said:
I'm on my second just backed four year old and also had a backed late but ridden out five year old and all were well started, had sensible temperaments and were totally safe and straightforward to ride. You just have to remember to take everything one step at a time and remember they are still taking things in.

I've also had a four year old and a six year old who have been passed through a couple/a few hands since backing and they have come with issues.
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They only need to be badly backed and you're on a hiding to nothing! It is SO easy to screw up a good horse!

Two examples:

This is a little home-bred 3 year old - been backed about 8 weeks now and is SO good that the junior staff ride her out as 'sensible companion' for the JUST backed 3 year olds! She's scared of nothing, totally responsive and total trust in her rider.

jolene.jpg


This is a 4 year old - very similar breeding - who was 'backed' (if you can call it that!!) by someone else a year ago! She's come to us for re-backing. I've been working with her for 4 weeks now and frankly haven't DARED hack her out yet! She spooks at everything, and has little or no confidence in the rider - although thankfully I have got voice commands pretty well instilled in her now so when she takes off I CAN stop her!

Megan-j.jpg


The first filly would be a perfect '1st' youngster for anyone - the second will need a very experienced rider for a long time to come!

Obviously, the first filly is going to be more expensive than the 2nd! :rolleyes:
 
only_me said:
If you were getting something young, I would reccomend a low budget horse that you can "ruin" in effect - I think it was Kerilli that said you always ruin the first horse you have - which I think is very true, I certainly did!

:)
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GOD no, I never said that, and I've never thought it either. Not my quote.
Someone once asked me how many horses I'd ruined to get to where I am, to which I could honestly say, none... There have been some I didn't get the best out of, I'll admit, which would have gone further with a better rider, but if you train in a patient, consistent, horse-centric way, and don't give up if they get a bit stroppy (essential, because all bar a brain dead horse WILL test the boundaries here and there) then you won't ruin a horse.

BUT you do need to be confident with young horses, so tbh to the OP's question, I'd say, especially with the market as it is, I'd look around at slightly more mature horses. There are always people with nice horses who want lovely homes for them and are prepared to take a hit on the price for the peace of mind of knowing they've gone to someone nice. You might get a lovely 9 or 10 year old which'll be perfect for you.
 
forgot to say, some are really chilled though like my own 3 year old appy x welsh who i would let anyone handle and was so nice to ride though he did have his little naughty buckaroo moments.

However, i will always say i love youngsters and they're inmocence and love and how they put all they're trust in you. you come across older horses and they have already made up their mind about people and are grumpy and sometimes violent if they have been treated violently at young horses. I way prefere younger horses which are blank canvas' and in the future if i ever buy more horses will always go for a younger horse.
 
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