Youngsters extreme reaction to saddle

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tillsmum

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I have a youngster who is 4 and is going great guns in de-sensitising. She will allow you to flap numnahs and plastic and rugs about her back but is absolutly terrified of the saddle. She completely flips if you put it near her. I can get it on and wiggle it and bang it etc but tighten the girth and she explodes. She has had it on in the stable and walked aroung the shed loose in it about 5 times now. She spends about an hour frozen in the corner of her stable before she will even try and move in it and leave her stable and while it is on my normally quiet loving pony won't let me near her she bronks like hell if you reach out to touch it and just stands tense while you take it off etc. Never know it take so long for them to accept the saddle but I swear shes getting worse it was really bad today, stumped as to how to move on. :(
 
I know a lot of people who before backing a horse will put a roller on overnight in the stable so they get used to it. I guess you could try this unless anyone has good reasons not too, never done it myself!
 
I've never had a problem with saddling any of my youngsters but did put my arms around their girth/back when they were foals to get them used to the feeling of restriction. An old Irish horse vet once bemoaned rugs with cross surcingles as youngsters didn't get used to the feel of a roller type surcingle.

Given your description of your youngster's reaction two things sprang to mind: is the tree broken on the saddle or is it too narrow for your horse and has she been scoped for ulcers?
 
Mine did this although he was fine to start with. Have you tried lunge work/leading in just roller with a large pad underneath? What girth do you have? I was at the stage of hacking mine but he was starting to be a bit nappy, then chucked me off twice by napping/broncing. I then tried the saddle on to really check it’s fit (with no additional padding). He absolutely flipped out. He did the same again when I took him to my instructor’s a couple of weeks after. Turned out (after having a physio look at him after) his back was really sore and, although the saddle has an adjustable gullet, the gullet width all the way down was not wide enough for his spine so I think, as he’s grown and bulked out it was getting progressively tighter until it got to the point he couldn’t bear it.
I have gone back to basics now an and he’s not had a saddle on again as yet. I thought maybe it was a girthing issue as prior to his flip out, he’d got more and more ‘girthy’. I will look at that and am not going to use that same girth again anyway but I think ultimately with mine it’s the fit of the saddle pressing on his back.
I would suggest putting a padded out roller on yours and seeing whether the reaction’s the same. Could be a girth issue.
 
My youngster was fine in both saddle and surcingle but then for some reason went ballistic about it, same reaction as yours, it was VERY scary.
He is now on ulcer meds and what a difference, he is lungeing happily in a roller - we haven't retried the saddle yet, he has only been on the meds for 4 days but the change was instant. I would have said he could never have ulcers, he is laid back and lives out. I think a change of routine, then a self harm that needed a weeks box rest and bute was enough to bring it on, or worsen what was there.
 
How long have you had her? do you know if anyone put a saddle on her before you got her? To me this sounds like it could be remembered pain or fear. But I may be completely wrong!
 
Clodagh said:
My youngster was fine in both saddle and surcingle but then for some reason went ballistic about it, same reaction as yours, it was VERY scary.
He is now on ulcer meds and what a difference, he is lungeing happily in a roller - we haven't retried the saddle yet, he has only been on the meds for 4 days but the change was instant. I would have said he could never have ulcers, he is laid back and lives out. I think a change of routine, then a self harm that needed a weeks box rest and bute was enough to bring it on, or worsen what was there.
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Glad I am not the only one who found the extreme reaction scary! Did yours show any other signs indicating ulcers?
 
Its going to sound really bad but could be the saddle fit as the only time I put a pad underneath it she bronked so much it got loose and made everything even worse. She is also wearing an old saddle at the moment because didn't want to risk a nicer saddle with her extreme reaction Having said that the tree is sound but it is a bit narrow. I will go back to basics tomorrow with a pad and a roller and see if she will clm down abit. She may only be 13hh but when it jumps on your to save her from the scary thing on her back it hurts and is scary.
 
I've never had a youngster react AT ALL to having a saddle put on and tightened. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe it's something I do prior to saddling, I don't know. I've backed literally hundreds of youngsters and not one has objected but I do do prep for at least a year prior to backing so maybe that's why it all goes smoothly.

I wonder if there is something amiss with your youngster because that does sound an extreme reaction when you've already spent a bit of time getting him prepped for saddling.
 
My boy was exactly the same. I even took him to the vets and had his back checked for kissing spines. He did some pretty scary broncs. When the saddle went on, he was just terrified, so we did a lot of putting on and taking off. Then he was sent away to a pro. He continued to be 'backy' for a good few weeks, we had just decided to put him in a roller over night to get him used to the girth, when all of a sudden he just accepted it. Hes been turned away again for about 6 weeks now, and I pulled him out of the field the other day, put his tack on, and he was absolutely fine. So I would take things slowly, and see if she starts to improve, if not try the roller. Failing that a health check with the vet.
 
I have had her back checked before I did anything with her so know her back is fine. And she is absolutly solid with everything else in fact she is the laziest I have ever come across I think I get more worn out lunging her than she does cause she takes any excuse to stop. The reaction is just so out of character and the whole time she has the saddle on she is jumpy and nervy. I can lean over her and she doesn't bat an eyelid so it is something to do with the saddling experience I am just hoping shes not cold backed as she is hopefully going to be my kids pony and they adore her
 
ladyt25 said:
Glad I am not the only one who found the extreme reaction scary! Did yours show any other signs indicating ulcers?
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None at all, bar he got a bit nervy about being groomed, but I would only notice that with hindsight as I admit I can be a bit 'come on stand still and deal with it'. He is over 17hh so when he exploded, finishing up dangling by his hind leg from a 5 foot metal rail, was very scary indeed. Then it took 4 hours to get the roller off adterwards as if you went in the stable that we managed to get him into he stood up vertically and fell over. I then sent him to a pro but he did it with her as well, my vet had mooted ulcers and without scoping that looks likely.
 
Oh dear, that is dramatic. Firstly, I'd be very very sure that whatever saddle you are putting on her fits. It makes me cringe when people use 'some old thing' kicking around. It's your youngster's first experience of a saddle; it's imperative that it doesn't hurt! Secondly, I'd want a chat with the vet, discuss and/or check for ulcers, even to have her back and/or ovaries scanned if nothing is showing up externally. Finally, just acclimatise her to being around the saddle. Leave it on her door, carry it around, plonk it in places in her stable, on a jump wing while you work, so she can get used to it. I'd also try the roller/surcingle trick that others have suggested, but build it up more slowly. Don't leave it on her for an hour if she's scared of it. A few minutes, then a few minutes more, and try to normalise it. Distract her by asking her to do something else. If she's clicker trained, make her touch something; if she's agility trained, asked for something from that; if she's not, might be worth teaching her one of those or teach her some basic stretches so she can think about something else and realise she can move without the saddle interfering. Don't let the saddle become a bigger deal than it is.

Also? If you don't want to spend a fortune on a saddle she might wreck, look into a (good!) bareback pad. The Christ range tend to be pretty good, uncrushable, but take a normal girth and stirrups.

Good luck!
 
Clodagh said:
None at all, bar he got a bit nervy about being groomed, but I would only notice that with hindsight as I admit I can be a bit 'come on stand still and deal with it'. He is over 17hh so when he exploded, finishing up dangling by his hind leg from a 5 foot metal rail, was very scary indeed. Then it took 4 hours to get the roller off adterwards as if you went in the stable that we managed to get him into he stood up vertically and fell over. I then sent him to a pro but he did it with her as well, my vet had mooted ulcers and without scoping that looks likely.
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Hmm, mine was touchy being groomed and m as said got progressively girthy. He threw himself all over when I put the saddle on and ended up rearing on top of me and at that point I let go of the leadrope! He did the same again when instructor tried in her arena but this time we had a longer line. he went up several times and I thought he'd flip over but thankfully, he eventually stopped and just stood looking terrified but allowed me to take off the saddle each time without issue but was very tight in his back.

I am keeping my fingers crossed mine was purely due to saddle not fitting right but until I try again, I will not know!!
 
I've seen tons of old saddles where the channel in the middle gets too narrow for any horses spine about half way along and continues in this way until the back of the saddle. When you look down the gullet at the front (which may fit fine) the saddle is perched on the horses back. When girthed up the saddle squidges down forcing the spine into the too-tight space like an old fashioned wooden clothes peg on a clothes line. It must be agony for the horse, but the rider wonders why it doesn't like being saddled or mounted, bucks or won't go forwards etc. Look at the width of your horses spine and look at the width of the narrowest part of the channel under your saddle.
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
I've seen tons of old saddles where the channel in the middle gets too narrow for any horses spine about half way along and continues in this way until the back of the saddle. When you look down the gullet at the front (which may fit fine) the saddle is perched on the horses back. When girthed up the saddle squidges down forcing the spine into the too-tight space like an old fashioned wooden clothes peg on a clothes line. It must be agony for the horse, but the rider wonders why it doesn't like being saddled or mounted, bucks or won't go forwards etc. Look at the width of your horses spine and look at the width of the narrowest part of the channel under your saddle.
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I think (hope) this is what my horse's issue is. I bought him a new Wintec Wide, the theory being I could adjust it as knew he was broad and would only grow and then buy something else once he had stopped growing/filling out. Physio has now said he has an off-the-scale wide back and hence the saddle, although wide enough at the front was pinching his spine. If this is/was the case then I am hoping it'll be fairly easy to rectify! From what you've said, this sounds a more common issue.
 
I did lots of ground work with her. I have rugged her and patted her all over her back, I had the back lady out, I have put plastic and cardboard over her back All fine no reaction at all. I have leant over her her no reaction. Then put the saddle on and off, wiggled it about. Slowly done the girth up no reaction and then asked her to move and she blew up. Now everytime she sees the saddle it gets worse. I am going to go back to basics today and try the roller and saddle cloths etc again. I do worry about my saftey though cause when she reacts she comes to me to help her so she has landed on me a few times. I am looking for a new saddle for her that will be a better fit and will try with a sheepskin numnah to make it as comfy as possible for her. Fingers crossed we get there. Thanks for your helpful replies.
 
tillsmum said:
I did lots of ground work with her. I have rugged her and patted her all over her back, I had the back lady out, I have put plastic and cardboard over her back All fine no reaction at all. I have leant over her her no reaction. Then put the saddle on and off, wiggled it about. Slowly done the girth up no reaction and then asked her to move and she blew up. Now everytime she sees the saddle it gets worse. I am going to go back to basics today and try the roller and saddle cloths etc again. I do worry about my saftey though cause when she reacts she comes to me to help her so she has landed on me a few times. I am looking for a new saddle for her that will be a better fit and will try with a sheepskin numnah to make it as comfy as possible for her. Fingers crossed we get there. Thanks for your helpful replies.
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Please consider getting an equine behaviourist out (and I don't mean a natural horsemanship person, I mean someone who has training in behaviour modification and who understands concepts like counter conditioning). If as you say, it's getting just a little bit worse every time, you are quickly moving beyond something that can be dealt with by desensitisation, and into a situation where this will affect the horse's whole ridden future. They work under veterinary referral, so will want to know about the physical checks done. It can be fixed, but you need expert help. You can probably access someone via EBTA http://www.ebta.co.uk/faq-behaviourist.html), but if you want to PM me, I know working behaviourists in a good few areas of the UK and can recommend.
 
I agree with Brightbay, this sounds like a deeper issue. Saddle fit COULD be an issue yes, but given that there is NO weight in it (I assume?) and as a result is unlikely to be putting much pressure on her back then I really doubt that this is the issue. If you were backing her and riding in it then yes, but to react to a saddle simply sitting there? I think you'll need to look at other avenues tbh :-(
 
No I have never put weight in the saddle and wouldn't with this one as I know its not a good fit Only using it because if she wants to try and rub it of on a wall or roll it it she can.
 
In that case I think the issue lies elsewhere. Do you have a long rope you could use? 12ft is ideal, place the rope over her back (if she's been desensitised to this, but sounds like she has!) and feed it over so it hangs down the offside like a girth. Pass it under her belly and bring the ends together, lightly pulling the top end down and the bottom end up. Start VERY lightly and if she stands release immediately. She should stand if you are quick enough and then just stand there for a minute or so to let her think about what has happened. Keep repeating this until you get a sign she is relaxed- blinking, lowering head, licking and chewing etc. Then work on keeping it there loosely for longer. Then start to tighten but for short periods etc. This is a great way to introduce girth pressure to the wary horse because you can release it immediately. Once she is totally relaxed. I'd ask her to walk a step with it loose, then tighter etc. Sounds very time consuming but you can probably do a lot of this work over a few sessions. Going back a step if needed, but never stopping until she is back at a stage where she is relaxed and accepting.
 
Sounds like a mare I once had for backing, in the end she spent a week in the stable during the day with a race saddle on, she went out at night- (before anyone shouts :))
She was just a strong willed mare and didn't see why she should be ridden! after that we didn't have a problem!
 
tillsmum said:
Its going to sound really bad but could be the saddle fit as the only time I put a pad underneath it she bronked so much it got loose and made everything even worse. She is also wearing an old saddle at the moment because didn't want to risk a nicer saddle with her extreme reaction Having said that the tree is sound but it is a bit narrow. I will go back to basics tomorrow with a pad and a roller and see if she will clm down abit.
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A badly fitting saddle could easily be the problem here! Try her with the roller several times, if she's fine in that then you know its the saddle.
 
It seems as if you have missed out the important bit, as described by Saddlesore.

Unless the horse has been properly prepared for the feel of something tight around their girth area, there is always the chance that they will react badly to the introduction of a girth. Some horses seem to accept the girth being tightened but, when asked to move, can't cope with the feeling of restriction and freak out. A frightened horse always tenses and 'blows its body out', and this just makes things worse.

It's always good practice to use the rope as has been described so that the horse learns what it feels like and you can assess their likely readiness for a girth.

Unfortunately you are now in remedial training territory now, so be careful.

Remember, it is only possible to desensitise a horse to an object if it has been sensitised to it first. The manner in which the horse is introduced to something is what dictates how well he will accept it, and how long the process will take. The trainer has to try to keep the horse in a trainable state, working between the extreme responses of flight and fight, and always make sure the horse is well prepared for the next stage of its training.
 
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