Your horse's herd position?

Shadowdancing

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Do you know your horse's place in the herd pecking order? How often do they manage to achieve it if the herd changes or they move? Or is it just forced on them as a subordinate?
My horse has been the boss at times in previous herds, but the longer I have her, the more I realise her favourite position is as deputy! She likes to be in a herd with a very dominant, often older mare, and will then slot in as second in command and do whatever the lead mare does to maintain the status quo. Sadly this can mean she becomes fiercely attached to the boss, and will shout for them when separated, so although she did achieve this at our new place I've already had to have her removed from the herd.
How about yours?
 

Equine_Dream

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My lot are quite fickle here.
My boyfriends horse is top dog. He bosses the other horses around constantly and they give him a wide birth. When a new horse is introduced however he won't just wade into them. He will spend time sizing them up from a distance and will go over after a day or two to assert himself.
My mare is his "second in command" however she isn't particularly aggressive unless she takes a particular dislike to a certain horse in which case its full moody mare mode of teeth bared ears flat and charging at them squealing. She mostly just follows our gelding round letting him boss the others around for her.
My little gelding is a middle ranking member. With the more dominant horses he is the most submisive inoffensive chap you could ever meet. To horses ranking lower than him however he is a little **** and will bully them quite nastily until he gets his way.
 

Amye

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We only have 4 geldings in our herd, and they are all a very laid back bunch. Haven't really seen any assertive or nasty behaviour apart from the occasional face pulling.

We had a new boy join us a couple of months ago, before this i'm fairly sure my boy was second in command, as he would always get out the way of the dominant but the other two would get out of his way if he wanted to come to the gate or something. Now one horse has left and the new one has come I think there's been a bit of a mix-up. One of the horses that was a subordinate now seems to be in charge (he is enormous so I don't blame them :D ). The new boy seems to be second in command, if I go catch my boy and he wanders over mine gets out the way. And then there's mine and the 22 year old at the bottom. Not really sure who's 'top' out of them two, they both spend alot of time together and are always happy to see each other, never seen them move each other off grass or anything. Maybe they're both just happy being at the bottom together :)

Though it's hard to tell exactly as they are so laid back and generally there are no scuffles, you can only tell by who gets out of who's way really!
 

Cowpony

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Mine is in a big herd of mares which has joiners and leavers fairly constantly. When she first arrived she was 8 and very near the bottom of the pile. The only horses lower than her were youngsters. Now she is 13 and seems to have moved up to fairly near the top, although I couldn't say exactly where. She definitely moves a lot of the other mares around, and when a new dominant mare came into the herd earlier in the year mine had a lot of scrapes and ripped rugs, so I think they were fighting it out. Similarly when that mare went we had more evidence of fighting so I think the remaining horses were re-establishing who was at the top. Quite a lot of the mares are older, so I do wonder if their place changes as they age?
 

ihatework

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Mine is top dog. Nothing messes with her!
It's interesting to watch, especially this year as she has been far more 'natural' in her turnout what with being on maternity leave.
She'll soon be back to normal on individual turnout, which she is more than happy with. Even on individual you find that when she comes into or leaves the stables, there will be some horses that will acknowledge her (even if she scowls or just plain ignores them!). Funny old baggage.
 

skint1

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I have 2 geldings that live together, one is a diminutive 15.2 Tb and the other 16.1 Brick Outhouse of various Celtic origins :)
The TB gelding is very much in charge whilst the Big Fella is happy to go with the flow rather than crushing him like a bug-which he could easily do. When the Big Fella does occasionally have to draw a line under something the little fella looks incredibly crestfallen until normal services are resumed. They're very sweet together my two lovely boys.
 

Annagain

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My two are in a very settled herd of 6. They spend all year together and merge with another herd of 6 on the hayfields in the summer and early autumn. Both herds are used to mixing like this but tend to keep themselves to themselves.

A is bottom of the pecking order, but never gets picked on or bullied. He gets out of their way if they insist on it but they rarely do. He genuinely is everybody's friend and most of them (M being the exception) treat him with a benevolent tolerance like he's some sort of simpleton. (I suspect he's actually very bright, socially, and has worked out it's the way to an easy life) They get out of his way at the gate (it's like the parting of the red sea!) let him share their food and treats and groom him and all because he never presents himself as any sort of threat. Number 2 in the pecking order is particularly fond of him and looks after him if M starts.

M however is a different story. He's 3rd in the pecking order, terrified of the two above him and vile to the three beneath him. Getting him through the gate can be a nightmare as he's either chasing others out the way or charging past the 'bullies' (in his head, they're not they just hold their own). He totally over-reacts to normal social cues and as a result doesn't really have any proper friends. He hates any other animal in his personal space (but loves humans). He'll tolerate his herd fairly close to him but can't walk past the other herd in the field even when being led in. He has to chase them out of his way and have a huge gap to go through. If he's in his stable, with just a chain across his door and the yard dogs/cats/chickens come near him he gets really upset and aggressive...shut the door and he's fine. If he had to pick just one, he's quite fond of number 4 in the pecking order but B loves to play and M just can't deal with that so it's also quite a tense relationship!

There's a lot to be said for accepting your place in society and getting on with it...In horsey terms at least.
 

Fiona

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I have two mares turned out together small TB and large IDx, and they are fairly neutral with each other, and never fight. One doesn't seem to be more dominant than the other. However the TB misses her buddy far far more than the ID mare misses her..

Also the ID mare is kind to newcomers ie v small pony, and travels nicely etc with her (not turned out together as wee one too wee) whereas TB mare is hateful to little one - squeals, snaps etc :(

Ohh and pecking order definitely changes with age IMO. My friends WB was so totally the boss at previous yard we were at. He just had to look at another horse and it stepped out of his way, however she told me later that as he aged into his 20's and went a bit downhill, her other horse took over as boss....

Fiona
 
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fattylumpkin

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Mine WAS at the bottom until very recently. I had a question about that though I don't want to hijack OP's thread!

Has anybody else had similar experience of a very low ranking mare suddenly turning into a tiger and becoming lead mare after the introduction of yearlings to the yard?

She was always bottom of the pile (for years) until early in summer when two yearling fillies arrived and were placed in the paddock next door. I knew something was wrong when I turned up to find my usually shy horse biting and kicking and driving the other mares around the field, which she did for three days straight. I couldn't go in the field because if I walked in, and the other horses came near me, she would charge and attack them. I'm very lucky that the other people, specifically YO, saw the funny side of this, though I was absolutely mortified at the time. Now she's lead mare. She doesn't seem especially bothered about the yearlings, though it's definitely their arrival which triggered it.
 

Jo1987

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Mine is bottom of the pile, and quite happy there! He always gets his share of hay, but gets out of everybody's way if they tell him to. I've never seen him move another horse on, bite, kick or even put his ears back.
I suspect he simply doesn't see any reason to bother with a disagreement, he's much the same ridden and seems to respond to any request with 'Yes, Miss' in favour of an easy life!
 

JJS

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We have a nice herd of seven, and mine are one, six, and seven in the pecking order.
T is the most dominant horse I've ever known. They're in a settled, long-term herd now, but no matter who he's been turned out with in the past, he becomes boss instantly. His reign is absolute, and no one ever challenges him. He also makes it clear that squabbling amongst the rest is not tolerated, hence his herd never ever has a mark on any of them. No one kicks, no one bites, and if they even think about it, a look from him soon puts paid to the idea.
S is bottom, and has been in every herd he's been part of. He's only little, and as a rule he's usually the sole pony amongst horses. He's a real loner who keeps himself to himself, although a couple of the others try to make an effort with him. He did used to be very attached to my old TB mare, but after we lost her no other horse has ever seemed to take his interest.
M is four, and only joined us five weeks ago. As it stands, she's sixth, with the mid-ranking members all going to pains to make sure she stays there. She also likes to keep herself to herself, although she is definitely becoming more sociable with the others as time passes. I don't think she's likely to move any higher though; she seems quite content to stay as she is.
 

FlyingCircus

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Mine doesn't really seem to adhere to the typical!
He gets along with whatever I've put him out with, because he knows when to stay out of the way and when to put the others in their place. He has been out with a herd of all mares, all geldings and a mix and he has always done this.

At the moment he's out with just geldings and he bosses them all around on occasion but also defers to their leadership too for a quiet life, it seems! Just as long as they're not being horrid to him, he just rubs along happily.
 

Equi

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My big horse is last in the herd of four he is in. At home, my older brood mare is top horse, followed by the stallion then the gelding, then the younger brood mare. Then foal rules them all.
 

Nappy Croc

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My Welsh D is top and my Partbred somewhere near the bottom, though in smaller herds he will take the lead if needed. He's quite submissive to physically bigger horses, and never really aggressive to smaller. Our herd is 5 geldings, a Shetland who is the bottom, 2x 13.3 MWs and a massive 14.1 HW and my 15hh D. They slot into height order! The other two (2x 12.1) are turned out together and are even.
 

rachk89

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Mine is the undisputed queen; Vladimir Putin is her leadership role mode.

Love that description.

Think mine is 2nd or 3rd in command, theres 2 geldings who love to rule the roost, but 1 of them tends to never hang around with any other horse. Mine is the only one that seems to go and keep him company. But he does listen to the other one that is in command and will get out of its way. He has loads of bites on him though so I think he must try to challenge them two a lot and has so far not won. Its funny watching him in the field, the other horses have their own little groups and stick to them. He will switch groups every day, he's rarely with the same group 2 days in a row.
 

sarahann1

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My mare is right at the top, she's a domainant type and it's about 3weeks now before she'll let any new horses into her herd. I always warn new folk what she's like. I dread new horses coming in!

Once the new horses are in she's then fiercely protective and it settles down and you'd think the last 3 weeks of her being basically horrid, couldn't have happened.

My wee lad Jazz was also exceptionally dominant, proper stallion esq yelling and stamping, I'd do anything to hear him do that again :(

Smartie was middle of the pile somewhere, seemingly respected for being an old man, but he barely even looked up when new horses came into the field.
 

Cluelessblonde

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My lads pretty good but at the moment he is definitely the boss...!! The other horse is definitely in love with him but he's having none of it... Doesn't like the clingers haha
 

Lintel

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When I bought my boy aged 2 he was bottom of the pile bossed about by everyone in a herd of 6 with a stallion. Circumstances changed and I left that yard he ended up in individual paddocks in the other yard so I took him back to his old yard aged 4.
He'd made his way upto second ranking with the stallion. Stallion got cut and then left the herd for a better future. He was then top of the pile and according to the yard owner a total bully... So he got separated. Yard move again.
He then goes into a field of 3 is top dog the 3 change and he is still top dog.
He would never touch a youngster but give him a feisty mare or gelding and he would fight to the death with them unfortunately...
 

Shadowdancing

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Mine WAS at the bottom until very recently. I had a question about that though I don't want to hijack OP's thread!

Has anybody else had similar experience of a very low ranking mare suddenly turning into a tiger and becoming lead mare after the introduction of yearlings to the yard?

She was always bottom of the pile (for years) until early in summer when two yearling fillies arrived and were placed in the paddock next door. I knew something was wrong when I turned up to find my usually shy horse biting and kicking and driving the other mares around the field, which she did for three days straight. I couldn't go in the field because if I walked in, and the other horses came near me, she would charge and attack them. I'm very lucky that the other people, specifically YO, saw the funny side of this, though I was absolutely mortified at the time. Now she's lead mare. She doesn't seem especially bothered about the yearlings, though it's definitely their arrival which triggered it.

I wonder if the yearlings have been particularly deferential across the fence if she so much as gives them a look, which has prompted her to realise that she does have 'power' after all! Interesting change- be glad to see if anyone else has any thoughts.
 

pistolpete

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Love this! Mine is middle ranking. Never been a leader. Gets cuffed up by the herd leader and deputy just cos he forgets to move when told! Nice but dim. My new boy is younger and and smaller but laid back. Will be interested to see how he fits in.
 

Llee94

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Bizarrely it is the two smallest ponies who are in charge. Top dog is my mums 14.2hh 19 year old, allergic to everything and a bit stiff new forest. He manages to keep everyone in check with just a sideways glance. Second in command is a small fat 13.1hh 15 year old Exmoor pony who is extremely cheeky and very greedy. Then it is my 15.3hh 15 year old moody mare who likes to think she is in charge but is very quick to back down when challenged and at the bottom of the pile is my lovely but simple minded 16.2hh 4 year old who is extremely affectionate to everyone (people, horses, goats, geese, you name it - he wants to be best friends with it!) but he has no clue about reading body language so quite often finds himself the the receiving end from all the others! But they all get along very well despite this and all share a field shelter which they can often be found squeezed into like sardines but they seem to enjoy bunking in together.
 

DressageCob

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Mine is in a herd of 10 or so. He went in all cocky, trying to be at the top, but he failed. So he sits towards the bottom, but he's not the absolute lowest ranked horse in there!

Recently he has been adopted by one of the top boys. So he's now that horse's b!tch, which is fine. He is permanently attached to that horse (a bit like the boys holding onto T-Bag's pockets in Prison Break) and accepts everything that horse throws at him. In return though, he gets protection against the other horses in the herd, a preferential bit of haylege and is a senior horse then by association.

The herd is definitely like a prison, like you see in films and TV. There are all these little sub groups (the youngsters, the oldies, the ponies etc) who each have their own group boss, but everyone defers to the overall boss. Plus you have all the prison/herd politics. It's fun to watch :D
 

huskydamage

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The herd is definitely like a prison, like you see in films and TV. There are all these little sub groups (the youngsters, the oldies, the ponies etc) who each have their own group boss, but everyone defers to the overall boss. Plus you have all the prison/herd politics. It's fun to watch :D

If this is true then my girl has aspirations to be top dog (always the bitch with every horse/group Ive put her in with, herds all the others around with ears back and claims whatever she wants) but when faced with a younger more hardcore mare she got beat up badly but like an idiot with dented pride she kept going back for more,eventually she had to accept she is an aging gangster and have a shaky relationship with the other mare, giving up some of her 'block' lol
 

alainax

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16hh 650kg and middle of a herd of ponies :p

He very much likes to be middle, but also very much prefers the company of ponies. Particularly small grey ones it seems. He is black...

I am happy with a middle herd horse. I had a boss before and was always worried he would seriously damage another horse. I'd hate to have bottom, as I'd feel sorry for him!
 

cherylee

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Mine lives in a mixed herd of 20 horses he is middle to top in the herd, he doesn't look for trouble but will stand up for himself when need be. Some of the horses can be a bit mean to the horses lower in the herd when they come through the stable block but my boy never gets any bother! He has firm friends within the herd which I love! I love watching the horses living out as a herd and how the dynamics change/work.
 

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Mine is top a the moment and has been last few years, but it depends if he can be bothered sometimes, he can be a really nasty sod and is very confident in himself, he pretty much tried to kill one new arrival, we had to split them up for a short while, we kept a sharp eye on them when trying again, things settled down, at previous yards he knew where to pitch himself and would sidle up to the top guy and make himself the wing man in second or third position.

Fortunately I know my pony really well, and know he will "seem" ok with a new one for a short while, then he seems to need to have his pound of flesh and can be really nasty until he feels they know their place,.

We tend to put a new one in a paddock inside the main field, so they can all get to know each other over a fence, seems to work well.
 

adamntitch

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Mines a leader but a good one ears bk and they no somethings up never nasty so no kicking biting altho he has known most since they where born others in field just back down to him but as I said he's never aggressive about it
 
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