Your methods of backing and breaking.

SammyDingle

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I find it really interesting people's different methods for backing and breaking their horses. Steps they complete and in which order, time scales etc.

I spend an awful amount of time establishing ground work. Leading out in hand, long reining but not much lunging as I'm not keen on lunging in the open field. They are backed on the yard and ridden out (alone) pretty much straight away as we have no ménage. Any early stages of schooling are done in the field before it's worth boxing over to ménages.

Would love to hear your methods, tricks of the trade. And mainly how anyone backs an breaks a horse completely alone and stay safe.
 
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I stick a bridle and saddle on, walk them round for 5 mins and if they don't buck, bronc and try to ****** off I get on them. If they do try it on I walk them for another 5mins until they shut up. Once on I let them adjust to having weight on their back then ask them to move. Once they have figured out that they can walk they get sent on to trot before they get the idea that they can buck lol!

I do this all by myself in the middle of a field. The first few times I get on them I do it in the wee paddock so you can just scoot round the edges. It has a hill in it so they get beggared going up it quicker lol! They learn steering by default there too before we venture out into the bigger fields for schooling on.

My theory is if you keep them confused and never let them get too much of a clue about what they are doing until they have got too far into their lessons to notice then you generally don't get decked, you don't have a half fit pony from weeks of lunging and long lining. None of mine get taught to lunge as I don't like young ponies going in circles for hours.

I've not had an issue yet doing it this way. 99% of people won't agree with how I do things but hey ho!
 

FairyLights

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I break it all down into very small steps and take as long as it takes for me and the horse to feel comfortable with each step. it all begins with getting a head collar on preferably as a foal! I dont lunge but do lead around the village to get them used to things. i echo EKW above , thats a good plan. I am backing a horse alone at the moment, hes good at being sat on now walking forward is the next thing to do.
 
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SammyDingle

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EKW I like your approach! I spend time on the ground but once I get going I am similar. I normally first sit on them on the yard, haven't had one object yet. I have no where at all fenced off so tend to have a few walks down the lane then onto longer hacks and In the field.
 

SammyDingle

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Fairlylights I also lead down to the village to see traffic etc but thinking with my new one I might just set off on her and get my mum to take lead on her horse
 

Cobbytype

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I didn't start my own horse, he was on a very good producer's/competition yard, but I assisted (aka meddled:)) all the way.

Step 1. Not a lot really for the first 2 weeks. Settled in for a few days. He had a bit in his mouth each day and was given a handful of feed to get him used to the feel of the bit. General handling, but he was well handled anyway, so it was just a matter of crossing i's and dotting t's He went on the horse walker for 10 mins a couple of times a day to help his fitness, but this didn't go to plan - he worked out how to stop it and had enrolled the other members of the walker (the posh competition horses) into his stationary, middle of the walker' poker school. "Get that bloody cob off the walker - he's teaching them all bad habits". He was introduced to the long reining tack instead.

Step 2. Long reined briefly about the yard/school/paddocks for a day or two, then straight out into the village with me at his shoulder to help with the steering. Gradually weaned off having someone at his side, with the person distancing themselves whilst YO encourages horse to listen to voice commands. The long reining went on for a couple of weeks or more, but a lot of that was on his own with just YO.

Step 3. Introduction of full tack and lunging. Stirrups added. Stirrups added with them flapping on his sides. Saddle flaps flicked about and lots of de-sensitizing, patting on withers, rump, sides etc. The YO liked the horses to 'have a go at the tack' (i.e. have a buck and a bronc, as she believed that once they'd got it out their system, they were less likely to do it with a jockey on board). My horse was as quiet as a mouse... see below...:)

Step 4. Leaning over saddle, with horse being led gently around the school. Flapping the saddle flaps, faffing with the stirrup irons at same time as the leaning over.

Step 5. YO on board with someone at the shoulder to lead horse around. Lots of praise.

Step 6. The person leading is weaned away from the shoulder now to encourage horse to go forwards without someone at the side to guide him. Very wide opening of left rein for left turn and vice versa for right turn. Horse isn't asked to do much, just to walk, halt, go leftish, go rightish; it's all steady and relaxed.

Step 7. Short hacks out, only in walk, interspersed with school, interspersed with riding around the paddocks in steady walk to teach Jasper to listen to rider and not to nap back to horses in nearby paddocks (he didn't try to nap, but just in case).

Step 8. Lunging in faster paces, with more transitions, voice commands to prepare for ridden work in trot and canter. (Steps 7 and 8 were mingled as I recall). A very short lunge with a gadget (one occasion only for just a few minutes), as Jasper had taken the forwards commands a bit too literally and was belting along with his head high and a hollow frame. The gadget was merely to show him, not to fix him in place or to punish.

Step 9. More hacking, longer hacking, transitions from trot to canter to walk whilst hacking. All the hacking was alone so far.

Step 10. YO thinks it's time for me to get on board. YO rides him in for me and Jasper remembers that he forgot to have a go at the tack back at stage 3, so does it now, big style, instead. Jasper has broncing fit, YO just manages to stay on board and my introduction to the apple of my eye is postponed for a couple of weeks.

Step 11. Me on board. One circuit of the school and I ask for the gate to be opened and for a lead down the slope onto the road. Off I go for my first hack around the village with hubby walking beside me.

Step 12. Lots more hacking by me and hubby on his bike, followed by hacking alone, followed by hacking with other horses, followed a glitch when he throws a strop in a field and canters off with me, then tries to give a (crawling along giving us a wide berth) Ford Fiesta both barrels and very nearly falls over on the road, such is his road rage. YO thinks this is the funniest thing ever and says "You know they've all got it in them, even saints like yours. I told you he could be a funny bu££er. Your horse has done so well, but he's telling you it's time for a break". Jasper has 5 or 6 months off.

Step. 13. Jasper goes back to the yard to get him cracking again. He comes back into work very sharp and annoyed with YO, but is fine with me because we just hack and go to the sweetie shop and hang about at the woods doing one minute eventing over little branches and then he eats grass, then we hack a bit more, rinse and repeat.

Step 14. We come home for good and he's just brilliant.
 

kassieg

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I'm also a groundwork person

I do a lot of work in a dually getting them completely responsive to everything i ask,i find this helps no end with their respect & trust of you

I will have already bitted & introduced the bridle. I generally pop the roller on a few times & walk them out in it to see if they are are any major reactions but introduce the saddle before i start any long lining.
I will pop the lines on in the stable & do some work just draping them all over them, behind them etc so they know exactly what will happen. They i will take them into the paddock & begin long lining.
I usually spend a good week to 2 weeks long lining depending on how they feel.
I will then pop them on the lunge & canter them a few times with the stirrups unfastened so they flap about a lot just to give them the worst case if all goes wrong & they chuck me & piss off.

I spend a decent bit of time usually over a few days to a week depending on how relaxed they are jumping up & down on both sides of them, pulling & flapping the stirrups on both sides. People think I'm mad when they see it but it makes such a massive difference!

I will then leg up & lean over, do that 5 times then if they are ok walk leant over then get off & leg up & lean over another 5 times then leave it. Next day i will do the same & if they are feeling ok swing over, i have a great ablity that i can sit in the saddle but not put my full weight in so i will do this a few times, i leg over, sit up, sit down with light weight, leg back over, get off & repeat. I will do this a good 10 times. Depending on how they feel i will leave it or i will walk sat up. Then i just carry on doing this in the next few days, day after i will add my full weight & walk. I will then get sent out on the lunge but controlling, the person on the end is only ever there if the horse chucks me so i dont loose it & can't catch it as it just upsets them further. I'll go out on the lunge maybe 2 days if they are shakey then we will be on our own.

I will do everything on my own until i need someone to walk the horse when i am leaning over. I now do everything in my paddock as no school then i will move them into the big field when they are learning to canter under saddle as it is much easier for them :)

It usually takes me 4 weeks ish but tbh i don't really care on time, my last 1 was so so easy i thought it was too quick but she was an angel. The 1 before that took me 3 1/2 months but it was a re-break & he had pain memory & had real issues with things on his back but as soon as we finally got on he was just a changed horse. Had a few wobbly moments but he is happily hacking away now :)
 

Pennythetank

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I've never broken one on my own but spent last summer working (getting in the way and asking lots of questions) and learning in a breaking/schooling yard and while it was adapted for each horse it generally went something like this: (some horses went home after a few weeks others stayed on for 5+ months to continue schooling)
Introduced to bit and saddle while eating. Leathers on saddle left down and floppy whilst horse was in stable (supervised) and once happy stirrups added (again down, floppy and supervised)
Long reined once maybe twice in field so they knew their left and right. They should know woah by know just from basic handling in yard.
Someone at head while some on hops on and walks and trots.
Follows horse around field and no person leading just so basic stop/start/turn is installed.
Out hacking (fields and roads)with 1-3 Nanny horses eventually taking up the lead themselves just learning about life. They would be introduced to stuff like water and baby ditches etc. Up to here would only take 1-2 weeks at most on average.
Schooling in field (plenty of space for massive circles etc) including intro to pole work and maybe baby lateral stuff(turns on forehand/ baby leg yield etc).
At maybe the 2-3mth mark unless owner had agenda required some jumping and arena work would be included.
Some horses (depending again on owners and season) got hunted very lightly around the 2-3mth mark.

It was a long slow system but it set the horses up well and most of the owners I met had had horse broken by the yard before so it obviously works well and produces nicely turned out horses.
 

Echo24

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Cobbytype how long did the whole process take you?

Some interesting views as my youngster us currently in the process of being backed but it's progressing slowly as his saddle no longer fits him :(
 

muckypony

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I agree with EKW, no faffing.

IMO no professional will do it this way though as it won't make them any money....
 

Cobbytype

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Cobbytype how long did the whole process take you?

Some interesting views as my youngster us currently in the process of being backed but it's progressing slowly as his saddle no longer fits him :(

About 3 months from steps 1 - 11. My boy was 6 when he was broken in - he should have been a modestly sized cob, but he kept growing and growing and was a heavyweight 'drum horse' by the time he steadied off growing at 6. He was just over 16hh when started and YO was concerned about his sheer size and my petite stature, so she took things very slowly, so a battle of strengths didn't arise.

Some of the steps were revisited along the way. The long reining took quite a while as YO knew I wanted to hack safely, so getting him out in front alone, strutting his stuff confidently about the village was focused upon more than the 'twiddly bits' of schooling. She took him to places that might cause an issue, such as going past paddocks with unfamiliar horses in them, sheep paddocks etc.

We had a problem with getting him confident at the mounting block, which wasn't very high. YO was 6ft tall and I'm only short, so I struggled to get on board and frightened him one day when I put too much weight in the stirrup and the saddle slipped. I took to getting off and on him out hacking and he'd have a graze for a few minutes here and there, so the mounting thing became easier and routine, but I still needed something to stand on to get on board. I made sure he was still scoffing his last mouthful of grass when I got on board out hacking because I didn't want his to take fright and run off in the middle of a hack!

There were horses that came onto the yard which just had the basics done - mostly race horses, who came for basic backing and were in and out in 2 weeks. It worked out much cheaper for the race horse owner to get them started this way, than paying the fees charged by the racing trainers... and the YO had years of experience with youngsters, so he (the owner) preferred to give the race horses a good basic start in their training. Some of them came back for re-training once their racing careers were over... that was interesting viewing at times!
 
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Cobbytype how long did the whole process take you?

Some interesting views as my youngster us currently in the process of being backed but it's progressing slowly as his saddle no longer fits him :(

See this is where I cheat and break in ponies using pony pads - no set shape, just change girths depending on how fat said pony is lol!
 

Exploding Chestnuts

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Yep, I use a roller with a thick pad, no stirrups but make sure he does not freak if I grasp mane tightly, mostly I line them up alongside a bale in the barn, this is assuming they are dead quiet, and they all have been, they are fed up with my go slow strategy by this time, having done lots of things over several months, I have had a saddle and also harness on a yearling, went all over the village and estate, nothing phased most of them, but one was nappy, that is to say his default was to turn and run, this seemed to be his nature, though he got over it to some extent it seemed to recurr occasionally if on his own and not regularly ridden, his only fault really. He was very slow to mature in strength and I sent him to a lightweight rider to learn to school properly and to jump with a good rider on board and also a man, he was already used to loose schooling, he was the most intelligent, and I think he had had a difficult early life, possibly broken to drive too young by forceful methods.
I try to ensure that they don't have any incidents, everything is done progressively and I will dismount and lead past anything extreme rather than have an incident early on.
 
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be positive

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I agree with EKW, no faffing.

IMO no professional will do it this way though as it won't make them any money....

A professional would not use the method EKW does as that is only the starting point, the hard work is the education once they are backed which she is obviously more than capable of doing and taking as long as it requires to bring on her own.
Most people sending a horse away for backing want it to come home fairly well established which takes time, some require more groundwork than others for many reasons, there is little point in jumping on a nervous youngster and hoping for the best as a bad experience at that stage can ruin them for life, it may cost money to have one professionally started but if they do a thorough job it will set up the horse for life and come home a well rounded confident individual ready for the owner to enjoy.
 

caras mum

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A professional would not use the method EKW does as that is only the starting point, the hard work is the education once they are backed which she is obviously more than capable of doing and taking as long as it requires to bring on her own.
Most people sending a horse away for backing want it to come home fairly well established which takes time, some require more groundwork than others for many reasons, there is little point in jumping on a nervous youngster and hoping for the best as a bad experience at that stage can ruin them for life, it may cost money to have one professionally started but if they do a thorough job it will set up the horse for life and come home a well rounded confident individual ready for the owner to enjoy.

This^^^^
Have worked at many yards backing horses and have backed many myself. Do it properly once and their set up for life. A re back can take 10 times as long to fix, if it was messed up in the first place.
 

Jenna1406

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I am in the process of backing my first horse. She did alot of ground work from when I got her at 1 as she has been shown in hand at small shows to county shows. Then introduced long reining at the end of last year with someone leading her and when I reintroduced it this year she likes to set off on her own now. She is fairly confident in heading out long reining on her own, taking lead or leaving another horse. So one day I just got on and went for a walk up the road with my other half on his horse and me and Breagha. It might not be the right way but she seems to be taking everything in her stride. Only ride her for 10 or so mins as shes only 3.
 

pennyturner

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I link the whole process to the pony's natural curiosity and desire to get out and about. Each step is done matter-of-fact, except for the big fuss after, of course, and they're caught from the field each time.
Start with popping a bit in, and maybe a saddle and walk out in hand (off headcollar).
Next time will have long lines if they're quiet... out for another walk, this time with me behind, and a feel on their mouth.
Repeat once or twice, until steering and halt-walk-halt transition is there. Ideally walk-trot-walk too.
By this stage they're expecting the walk, and looking forward to it as soon as they're pulled out of the field, but know that they have to put up with my wierd new stuff as part of the process, so they're not too surprised when someone sits on them.

Important part is to set off walking as soon as the rider is mounted. 1) walking acts as a natural sedative to a horse. 2) confirms that this is just another 'wierd thing' we're doing before going out for another nice walk.
Once backed everything else is done whilst hacking, usually in company, but I make a point of taking out young ones alone from time to time too.

Whole process rarely takes more than a few days, and produces very relaxed, easy to catch hacks.
 

SammyDingle

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This makes really interesting reading.

Apart from ground work and getting them really responsive I don't have a set way, or even certain steps. My new one is a sensitive soul, but if she worried she becomes very bolshy.

The education starts soon.. so we shall see how it goes!
 

Dry Rot

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I'm curious WHY people lunge. Not disputing that it is neccessary, but I'd just like to know the reasoning behind it. Or is it just something that people do because that's the way it has always been done?

(And, yes, I do it with a particular aim in view, but that might not be the same as everyone else! Just curious. I don't think there's actually a rule book, is there?:)).
 

pennyturner

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I'm curious WHY people lunge. Not disputing that it is neccessary, but I'd just like to know the reasoning behind it. Or is it just something that people do because that's the way it has always been done?

(And, yes, I do it with a particular aim in view, but that might not be the same as everyone else! Just curious. I don't think there's actually a rule book, is there?:)).

I don't lunge, but I might if I had a horse that was dangerous to long rein (kicker), and needed to establish good solid verbal commands before anyone could safely get on him.
 

Cobbytype

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I'm curious WHY people lunge. Not disputing that it is neccessary, but I'd just like to know the reasoning behind it. Or is it just something that people do because that's the way it has always been done?

(And, yes, I do it with a particular aim in view, but that might not be the same as everyone else! Just curious. I don't think there's actually a rule book, is there?:)).

I suppose when lunging is part of the breaking process, it's done so the horse:

learns to respond to pressure (at a greater speed and distance than just walking a horse in a halter)
learns to listen to voice commands and carry out basic transitions
learns what tack feels like jangling around, and also the girth tightening when they breathe heavily during exercise
takes the edge of the horse before getting a rider on board
allows the trainer to appraise the horse and see where problems might arise in certain gaits
 

Dry Rot

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I suppose when lunging is part of the breaking process, it's done so the horse:

learns to respond to pressure (at a greater speed and distance than just walking a horse in a halter)
learns to listen to voice commands and carry out basic transitions
learns what tack feels like jangling around, and also the girth tightening when they breathe heavily during exercise
takes the edge of the horse before getting a rider on board
allows the trainer to appraise the horse and see where problems might arise in certain gaits

Pretty much my reasoning too, though I think I'd put response to voice commands at No. 1 as a definite stepping stone to long reining. Bt I'm here to learn!
 

be positive

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Pretty much my reasoning too, though I think I'd put response to voice commands at No. 1 as a definite stepping stone to long reining. Bt I'm here to learn!

Most of the ones I have broken have come in with little groundwork experience so lunging is the first stage for me, they learn the voice commands, get used to the tack/ lunge rein and become confident with the equipment so they gradually go onto two reins and onto long reining, if you are working alone starting on long reins is not so easy if they have not learnt to go forward independently first.
 

Nudibranch

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First one I backed was about 25 years ago. I broke her to drive in an hour a few months later! These days due to having considerably larger horses (and being more sensible) I just take it slowly. The current one was walking out in-hand on roads and tracks at 18 months. Long reining for 20-30 minutes, again on roads and tracks, then in full tack, between 30 and 36 months. Always for no more than a week or two then turned away for a few weeks. Leaned over every now and again and taught to stand still in the meantime. I did get him lunging on 2 reins for 2-3 minute spells just prior to backing, as I think it improves voice commands and transitions, but for literally only moments at a time.
By the time I sat on him 2 months ago as a 4 yo, nothing was a big deal and he hacked out alone from day one. I'll turn him away in a month or so, then more light hacking in late winter. For the sake of his joints (17hh and still growing) and my bones I see no reason to rush anything.
 
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cally23

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Love this, thanks you have given me a lot to think about. I am collecting a wild yearling, this week he is being gelded and then the fun begins!
 

Cobbytype

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First one I backed was about 25 years ago. I broke her to drive in an hour a few months later! These days due to having considerably larger horses (and being more sensible) I just take it slowly. The current one was walking out in-hand on roads and tracks at 18 months. Long reining for 20-30 minutes, again on roads and tracks, then in full tack, between 30 and 36 months. Always for no more than a week or two then turned away for a few weeks. Leaned over every now and again and taught to stand still in the meantime. I did get him lunging on 2 reins for 2-3 minute spells just prior to backing, as I think it improves voice commands and transitions, but for literally only moments at a time.
By the time I sat on him 2 months ago as a 4 yo, nothing was a big deal and he hacked out alone from day one. I'll turn him away in a month or so, then more light hacking in late winter. For the sake of his joints (17hh and still growing) and my bones I see no reason to rush anything.

My fab horse of a lifetime also started his 'education' young, from the day he came to me at 6 months really. I used to take him out for short walks in hand around the farm we liveried at, then later, when he was around 18 months old, I lead him off my other horse, just around the farm land for a short distance - he loved it. I'm a firm believer that youngsters started this way grow up more sensible and confident because nothing comes as a massive shock and they enjoy the learning process when it's done slowly.

I can understand why breeders and breaking yards tend to leave youngsters fairly untouched until time to get them started, as it just wouldn't be economically viable to do the amount of work that those who take the gradual approach do. But there's always the risk that some horses will find the 'short, sharp, shock' process too traumatic and be left quite nervy and distrusting if they're put through the mill at breaking time. As someone else said, it takes a heck of a lot more work to undo problems in broken youngsters than it does to take things a day at a time with a blank canvas.
 

Nudibranch

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The gradual approach does work for me, although I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the commercial approach either. It's just different. Personally I enjoy the whole process which is why this time I bought a 6 month old. He will be with me for life so as I say, there's no rush and he is a confident young man already, who I hope to have many years of adventures with. It's a very satisfying process. But you can only take things this slowly if you have the time!
 

muckypony

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A professional would not use the method EKW does as that is only the starting point, the hard work is the education once they are backed which she is obviously more than capable of doing and taking as long as it requires to bring on her own.
Most people sending a horse away for backing want it to come home fairly well established which takes time, some require more groundwork than others for many reasons, there is little point in jumping on a nervous youngster and hoping for the best as a bad experience at that stage can ruin them for life, it may cost money to have one professionally started but if they do a thorough job it will set up the horse for life and come home a well rounded confident individual ready for the owner to enjoy.

Yes I meant the actual starting point wouldn't be done so quickly. Obviously the education afterwards takes time - I don't expect to see a horse working at novice level dressage the day it is sat on! My boy (before I bought him) was apparently sent away and home within 2 weeks, which I think is fairly quick (after all... It was being done as a 'favour'!) yet his ridden work is wonderful. One of the most rideable horses I've ever known, so it didn't do him any harm.
 

ycbm

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I stick a bridle and saddle on, walk them round for 5 mins and if they don't buck, bronc and try to ****** off I get on them. If they do try it on I walk them for another 5mins until they shut up. Once on I let them adjust to having weight on their back then ask them to move. Once they have figured out that they can walk they get sent on to trot before they get the idea that they can buck lol!

I do this all by myself in the middle of a field. The first few times I get on them I do it in the wee paddock so you can just scoot round the edges. It has a hill in it so they get beggared going up it quicker lol! They learn steering by default there too before we venture out into the bigger fields for schooling on.

My theory is if you keep them confused and never let them get too much of a clue about what they are doing until they have got too far into their lessons to notice then you generally don't get decked, you don't have a half fit pony from weeks of lunging and long lining. None of mine get taught to lunge as I don't like young ponies going in circles for hours.

I've not had an issue yet doing it this way. 99% of people won't agree with how I do things but hey ho!

This, except I don't trot in the first session and I have an indoor I do it in, not a field.

The best pros I know do the same, and back on concrete because they say the horses aren't stupid enough to buck on a concrete surface when first backed. If they get one that's nervous they back it in the aisle of their indoor stables so it knows it can't go anywhere.
 

Deltaflyer

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I did the groundwork thing when breaking my girlie. I used to take her out for walks around the lanes in her lunging gear (long reining was something I'd never heard of back then in 1985!) She learned to go out alone and in company before she was backed. As she got nearer to being backed I'd take her out with her saddle on to get her used to it. I also used to lunge her so she was used to voice commands. By the time she was ready to sit on she was already bomb proof. I could hack her out alone almost from day one. I used to do a lot of young stock in hand classes at local shows as well so never had any issues when I started riding her at shows.

This approached worked well for both of us as we built up a very tight bond and I trusted that pony 100% even though she was sharp and in her earlier years could have a bit of a buck when she got excited.

If I was ever in a position to get a youngster again (and I'd dearly love to get one as a side project one day) I'd definitely go down the route of plenty of groundwork.
 
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