Your thoughts on docking tails please

Working breeds can be docked AFAIK and Kirstyhen on here can tell you why it could have saved her and her dog a lot of bother.

I've no strong feelings either way and can deal with the flaming that will bring :p
I've known a couple of dobes who were cropped and docked and I won't lie, they looked very striking.
 
There is a blanket ban in scotland - so no dogs can be docked in scotland but there is a grey area where docked dogs can be shown. In england and wales docking is banned, but there is a gey area where if you can provide details that you are purchasing a working dog, then some vets will dock (remember though dogs are docked at 3/5 days old)- all docked dogs must be microchipped , and you cant show docked dogs in england - some law eh?
 
I've said on here before, I've read the Kennel Gazette section where people are seeking permission to show docked dogs and noticed a lot of Boxers getting their tails injured, and those working Kerry Blues are getting very popular in the showring.
 
The local farm dog has had a litter of JRT pups and we have pick of the litter - they have been docked. We don't want to show - just have the dog as a pet.

Should we steer clear of these pups?

I don't have a problem with docking. All pups are now 2 weeks old, happy and healthy - they were docked at 3 days old
 
They could have been legally docked if their parents are working dogs, meaning they could also be used for work. I wouldn't let the fact that they are docked put you off, as long as you are prepared for owning a working bred dog with the challenges that seem to go along with that!

I have no issue with docking for working reasons, although I do not agree with purely aesthetic docking.:)
 
We already have a border collie so are used to working breed dogs. I'm not sure how the puppies were docked! I'm guessing that the farmer did it!
 
It is illegal here in Italy and my Weimaraner puppy has already injured her tail twice. Once in the door and once when she went for a run through the field with horses in it. NOT a good idea as the stallion chased her out but managed to bite her tail before she could get under the gate.
God does it hurt in the morning when she thumps my at least 10 times with her happy tail whilst I barely have my eyes open yet.
 
It is illegal to dog any dog in England unless you can prove it is for working, you need a gun license for each puppy, a letter from a vet and a certificate after as far as I'm aware. You would be able to show the legally docked dog in any competition where it is free for the public to gain entry, it wouldn't be allowed to be shown where the public pay a fee i.e Crufts - there is exception to the rule though, you can apply to the KC for permission to show if the dog was legally docked through injury only.

The JRTs could be legally docked if they're workers - my friend legally docked her Patterdale x's as they're workers.

I wouldn't let it put you off.

I'm not opposed to docking I think it's a stupid ban, we had a GWP undocked and he suffered no end with injuries and need to be put under to have it amputated. If it was done at birth he'd have had no problems and no suffering. I watched the last litter I had docked (before the ban) being done and they didn't make a peep and it was over in seconds.
 
When our bitch had a litter 3 years ago July gone we had them docked as workers. My understanding of law is (or what we had to do) was to have proof they were working dogs (Shot gun Licence, Letter from game keeper etc) once docked were given a certificate stating when & where done signed by chap who had licence to dock (retired vet) and they had to be microchipped. The certificate then had to be handed over to anyone who bought a pup. Having said all that I understand that there are hunts whose terriermen do them - guess it depends what you intend to do with it ie showing KC reg types
 
I think the ban is a bit crazy as we've already encountered the perils of long tails-stood on, caught in doors. I can imagine it's a real bloody trauma if your dog gets caught in cover etc. I'm not looking forward to having these two running free when they're off the lead, far too much potential for injury. Given it's supposed to be done at 3-5 days, I really think it can't be too traumatic.
 
joyrider said:
When our bitch had a litter 3 years ago July gone we had them docked as workers. My understanding of law is (or what we had to do) was to have proof they were working dogs (Shot gun Licence, Letter from game keeper etc) once docked were given a certificate stating when & where done signed by chap who had licence to dock (retired vet) and they had to be microchipped. The certificate then had to be handed over to anyone who bought a pup. Having said all that I understand that there are hunts whose terriermen do them - guess it depends what you intend to do with it ie showing KC reg types
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I knew it was a letter from someone lol!!
 
I don't have a problem with docking and I think some breeds such as the Boxer and Doberman look better docked but I do prefer the likes of the Old English Sheepdog with a tail. That's just my personal preference.

However there shouldn't be one rule for one and another rule for another, if its ok to dock a working dog then it should be ok to dock all within the breed.
 
Personally think having tails a far better, though I understand some need to be docked... I really don't see why you'd chop off a tail for the look!
 
I'm going to put it out there and say that if it was in the standard i think they should be docked. There was at one point a reason for them being docked and even if they don't work they usually injure their tails at some point.
 
You see, I love that Henry has a tail, it gives him another way to express himself. I don't think he looks silly at all. Show cockers always used to have their tails docked much shorter than workers, right down to a little nub,which was pointless. Why should a dog have a bit lopped off simply because some people think it looks pretty? We don't do it to horses anymore, so why dogs?

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So far we have had no issues, I keep the fur trimmed short enough to prevent too much getting caught, but leave enough on to protect it.

As I said, there are good reasons to dock the tails of working dogs, which protect their health and welfare. But I can't agree with chopping bits off dogs simply to make them look good.

Also, working docks in spaniels are longer so the dog is still left with sufficient tail to balance, swim (Henry uses his tail as a rudder as you can see above) and communicate with other dogs.
 
A dog being docked would never put me off, no matter what the breed. As long as it was done correctly I really wouldn't care.
Much less bother than having to spray your dogs tail with a spray (that he hate)s when it's red raw, strapping it up (which he hates) so he can go for a walk and eventually having to have it amputated far shorter than it would have ever been docked (if you can find a Vet), restricting walks while they heal etc etc.
I have to say I agree with Katielou, docking is such a small thing in a dog's life that if they were bred to be docked it should be up to the individual whether they are done or not. My Dad's dog had a little stump and never had an issue with balancing, swimming and could wag it harder than any dog I've ever met!
 
Spudlet said:
From your pics on the other thread your dogs seem to have have long working docks, not the teeny little stumpy bobtails some showdogs used to be left with.
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My Dad's dog had a little bobbed dock, and he wagged it just fine :D :D Balance of a cat and the strongest swimmer I ever met - we used to walk him along the river and for the 30 minute walk out he would swim upstream keeping up with us!!
 
katielou_houston said:
I'm going to put it out there and say that if it was in the standard i think they should be docked. There was at one point a reason for them being docked and even if they don't work they usually injure their tails at some point.
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Statistical backup for that statement please:p:D

Many show dogs now are totally removed from their working origins. Look at cockers! The show types have all this feather:
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The workers are totally different in coat terms:
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There is no way that show type would be out in cover without being full of burrs - believe me, I clip Henry for a reason...! That dog just isn't designed to work in its natural state, and apart from odd people like me :p most show type owners don't particularly want them to. Since the reason for tail docking is down to safety when working, why should a dog that isn't bred to work have its tail docked?

My friend's lab used to wag her tail so hard it bled - yet labs are an undocked breed. Any dog can injure its tail, so why don't we dock all of them to prevent this?
 
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Back in 'the day' my dad used to own, show and breed different working dogs (Mainly terriers!) and he has told me many stories of him or his friends docking the pups themselves?! His friends have also told me similar stories so I think it must have been the norm back then?

I have no problem with docking either (Awaits shooting with CC) In an ideal world it wouldn't be done for asthetic reasons but it is.
 
I have to say Spud, you managed to find a pretty mangy looking worker... :eek: :D
Not reall :D but ones with that little coat are fairly few and far between, all of ours have had decent coats (bar Otto the mangy rat) - Jek was nicknamed Curly Pants for a good reason! :D
 
kirstyhen said:
I have to say Spud, you managed to find a pretty mangy looking worker... :eek: :D
Not reall :D but ones with that little coat are fairly few and far between, all of ours have had decent coats (bar Otto the mangy rat) - Jek was nicknamed Curly Pants for a good reason! :D
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Well it was the first one that came up on google:p How about this handsome lad?
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How often do you hear working spangle types say the two are practically different breeds? I have heard that a lot, generally when people are looking at me and Henry with a slightly contemptuous lipcurl (but we'll show 'em :mad:).

So, if that is the case, why should they be treated as one breed in relation to their tails, but not in relation to everything else?
 
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