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Moya_999

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This is a delicate situation, and not a debate to turn sour.

Say you kept your horses on a nice quiet small livery, where you had been for a few years and were happy with everything and so were your horses. YO was lovely helpful and always doing their best to improve the yard and new facilities. There is a yard next door which offers livery mostly DIY - due to past clashes there is friction between the yards. Do you think that should not cloud certain things done out of courtesy?

There have unfortunately been a few PTS recently by the gun, where my YO informed us no notice of this was given by text or call. So when the horse(s) were shot our horses were affected by the gun shot. Recently none of the horses would come in and when caught they were snorting and staring towards the area where horses were PTS.

One instance my sons pony was grazing within visual of the horse PTS and pony was effected by this. When I was young it was always the done thing to notify liveries on the yard I was on and neighbouring yards that a PTS was booked so no-one came up till after and all horses including neighbouring were moved away from the affected area.
It's one thing the yard moving their horses away but leaving ours out is a bit unfair IMO. Had the YO had more notice they would have got all the horses in instead early instead of some got in and the rest left out.

If you want my opinion I don't think friction between people should get in the way of a quick text so the other yard can act accordingly.
I mean imagine my YO choosing an area in from of their paddock with just a hedge between and being our fields are higher their paddock horses can see everything. There was a loud bang I heard it from my garden as I live 3 minutes walk from the yard, is there not supposed to be a silencer used??
Thoughts please thank you...........
 
I'm sorry, but you can't wrap horses up in bubblewrap all of the time. If your YO had not mentioned it, I would hazard a guess that no-one would've been any the wiser and just put it down to one of those things. Who's to say the shot you heard is definitely the bolt, rather that a coincedental bang/shot from somewhere else?
It is distressing, but I don't think the politics between the yards has anything to do with it. As an owner, appeasing the neighbours would be the last thing on my mind in that situation.
 
I thought I made myself clear I was in the garden and can see straight across and saw the horse standing in the field before the shot then lying down and the meat wagon arrive. It was 100% the gun used I heard. No one is saying wrap them in cotton wool, but there is also courtesy thing too, well there certainly was when I was growing up. Sorry I disagrees with you about politics being the issue. A quick text to a neighbouring yard who's horses are in visual contact is or would be the decent thing to do IMO.

I am aware that not all feel this way but I am sure a lot of owners would not like their horses to be 30 feet away and see a horse going down and thrashing and groaning.

As for no one being aware, actually 2 asked why their horses would not come down the field or near the gate and the YO is not going to lie. I have spoken to other owners who all feel the same - a quick text wont hurt.
 
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I very much doubt the YO intended to cause your yard any offence or distress, he/she will have been more concerned with dealing with the horses being pts and the distressed owners.

I know that when I had to have a livery pony on my yard shot in the field, the last thing on my mind was going round letting all the owners of neighbouring properties know.

You could try showing some sympathy for the YO and owners who have just lost their horses.
 
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Okay, so you've asked for an opinion, and dismissed it. I am sorry it was not what you wanted and the same as yours, but it is mine and it still stands I am afraid. While I can understand where you are coming from, it wouldn't concern me in the same way.

And no, you didn't mention you could see from your garden.
 
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I see you say the horses went down thrashing and groaning?? I can honestly say, having seen several shot, that there has NEVER been any of that...horses were dead before they hit the ground :/
 
In the yards I have worked in previously we moved all the horses to an area where none of them can see the horse being pts, if that meant bringing some in or moving them around it was always done, the thing is as its a neighbouring yard its difficult especially if relations are not good between you, I agree they should have let you know being next door but that is down to your yo to sort out with them.

The gun used is quite loud although my horses wouldnt take any notice as we have so many shoots around here its a normal sound for them.
 
Nope sorry, don't see the issue with this at all. At our old yard the farmer regularly used H's field to shoot from. After the first shot the horses would always just settle down to graze again.

If I were having a horse PTS the last thing on my mind would be notifying all and sundry that it was about to happen.
 
This sort of post is what really puts me off horsey people at times. Sounds like the typical bitchy livery yard squabbles.

Yes, in an ideal world, your horses should not witness another being pts. However, it really isn't always practical or possible to prevent it unfortunately. My mare had to witness (and I mean directly infront of her aswell) three of her friends pts three years ago due to unexpected incidents whilst I was at work. I didn't get a in a huff with the owners for not bringing my mare out of sight of their horses whilst they were pts - they were absolutely distraught at what was happening with their beloved horses, not worrying about my mare being upset, understandably. The other horses will get over it, it really isn't the end of the world.
 
I'm always being told by other riders I'm too soft and mushy with horses but I really don't think any damage has been done worth getting upset over. Yes, sometimes our neighbours do things that set our horses on edge for the day and mess up what we had planned, but the best remedy for something this minor is to suck it up and move on.
 
Sorry, I don't see an issue either. It's usual to find a quiet spot for the horse but it isn't always possible or appropriate. The first concern is for the safety of those involved and the sensibilities of the owner. I certainly wouldn't be ringing neighbours and everyone on my yard at such a time and haven't come across anyone else doing it.
Horses aren't traumatised by hearing a gun shot, other wise during the shooting season, ours would be on tranquillisers :)
 
Slightly different scenario but my dog was able to get over the older one just going away and not coming back when she went to the vets to be PTS. She did seem to know she was going downhill though and for the last two days or so she kept her distance.
I agree with the others - death can happen anytime and if the horse can't be moved to a more discreet place away from other horses, they will need to be PTS there and then.
 
Another who doesn't see the issue, I also wouldn't particularly expect to be notified if it was on the yard I was on rather than next door. It's no biggie and the horses will soon get over it with life carrying on as normal.
 
OP I think your YO is a trouble stirrer. There was no need for her to tell the liveries what had happened, upsetting them. If your YO wants curtesy calls to notify of things she needs to learn to stay on reasonable terms with the neighbors. Why would somebody you don't get on with have your phone number and why would you expect to be on their mind during a difficult time :confused3: Also, considering how people can be over the PTS issue I wouldn't be telling anyone other than my YO, just getting it done. I would book the vet for when nobody else was likely to be around on my yard and I certainly wouldn't be thinking of neighbours I didn't get along with. On a DIY yard I wouldn't expect others to stay away from the yard for PTS anyway, people still have their lives to lead even if one horses life has come to an end.
 
One of our mares was in the stable next to her friend of twenty years, when the friend was shot (logistical reasons meant this had to happen). She was less distressed than we expected and no more than we would have expected her to be at the loss of her pair bond. Ours have always been within eyesight and hearing when we have had one shot. We only tell the neighbours on the lane, to ensure clear access for the wagon, wouldn't dream of going to tell other neighbours, who would probably think I had lost the plot. Also if an emergency who the heck has time and inclination to tell other people.
 
My share horses companion was PTS by bullet earlier this year, and we didn't let the livery yard next to us know? I suppose if the horses in their fields was looking exactly that way they would have seen it, but doubtful . I know that when the shot fired a there was neighing and a bit of running about, but it all settled down very quickly. My share horse saw it was no where else to put her, and she settled within a few hours, sometimes I think it better for them to see it.
 
My horse that met a bullet did not thrash and groan. She hit the deck and her front legs twitched a bit.

I don't buy "traumatised" by the gun either. I once accidentally hacked a hill which was being used by grouse hunters aiming at us. Horse less stressed than me.

Bobbins.
 
I deliberately had one of my herd pts in full view of the others - in fact, Alf was standing next to her when the deed was done, so that she was calm. They seem to process the loss far better if they see it happen, and are allowed to sniff the body afterwards.
 
What a strange post. I own a large and busy yard. We have horses PTS. Any horses who are PTS here are done near all their field mates. It would ever occur to me to tell the neighbours that a horse is being PTS. I also don't inform the neighbours (nor them me) if we are shooting, and we live in a very friendly area!
 
We have bird scarers which are louder than the gun and we set them off with horse in feilds, they just look up and then continue to graze, no bother.
 
Guidelines are that animals should be pts out of sight of one another where possible - hence why abattoirs have had a big shake up over the years and animals aren't allowed to see each other being shot. However, on a daily basis, it is not always practical or possible, particularly where livery yards are concerned, and I really wouldn't be getting my knickers in a twist over it OP.
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
OP I think your YO is a trouble stirrer. There was no need for her to tell the liveries what had happened, upsetting them. If your YO wants curtesy calls to notify of things she needs to learn to stay on reasonable terms with the neighbors. Why would somebody you don't get on with have your phone number and why would you expect to be on their mind during a difficult time :confused3: Also, considering how people can be over the PTS issue I wouldn't be telling anyone other than my YO, just getting it done. I would book the vet for when nobody else was likely to be around on my yard and I certainly wouldn't be thinking of neighbours I didn't get along with. On a DIY yard I wouldn't expect others to stay away from the yard for PTS anyway, people still have their lives to lead even if one horses life has come to an end.
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^^^ that

FWIW my horses and livestock are on the same yard. When we have animals shot they are within 20 yards of the stabled horses. We do try to keep the actual shooting out of eyesight of any of the other animals but nothing so far has been traumatised by the sound of the shot. No animal going from their side of the wall to the side its siblings were killed on has been at all nervous or worried about going into the "killing zone" and after there was a bit of a mix up one day my pony went into her stable and was found standing there with the carcasses of the recently slaughtered animals. They should have been hung in the stable next door :( but she really wasn't bothered about it, or the pools of blood on the floor.

People make a big fuss about horses and death, interestingly it's always the horses of the people who react with horror to death that have issues . . .
 
Moomin1 said:
Guidelines are that animals should be pts out of sight of one another where possible - hence why abattoirs have had a big shake up over the years and animals aren't allowed to see each other being shot. However, on a daily basis, it is not always practical or possible, particularly where livery yards are concerned, and I really wouldn't be getting my knickers in a twist over it OP.
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I *think* the guidelines were draughted with commercial killing in mind, so agree that this is what the guidelines say, but I actually think it is probably in the remaining animals best interests that they can see what happens. Interestingly the mare who was next to her friend had no concern when it was her turn two years later.
 
Moomin1 said:
This sort of post is what really puts me off horsey people at times. Sounds like the typical bitchy livery yard squabbles.

Yes, in an ideal world, your horses should not witness another being pts. However, it really isn't always practical or possible to prevent it unfortunately. My mare had to witness (and I mean directly infront of her aswell) three of her friends pts three years ago due to unexpected incidents whilst I was at work. I didn't get a in a huff with the owners for not bringing my mare out of sight of their horses whilst they were pts - they were absolutely distraught at what was happening with their beloved horses, not worrying about my mare being upset, understandably. The other horses will get over it, it really isn't the end of the world.
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Actually I have already said its a lovely yard and most of the liveries have been there 8 years+. There is no bitching what so ever we all help each other and compete together.

The YO as I mentioned is great person bends over backwards to help any of us liveries, and there was no malice in mentioning what happened as the liveries asked why their horses were sort of spooking near the area.


I value your views which is what I wanted I did not mean to criticize poster above I meant to say thank you for your opinion I did not mean to dismiss it.
Also yes it probably was the thrashing as mentioned above from the muscles, sorry if what I said was misleading. Things are different now I see that by the replies, In the 70's my yard owner then would always tell everyone not to come on the yard early if there was a PTS and the yard next door in fairness was a riding school and asked to be notified when there was a PTS so they could make sure no one went over the other side till it was all over.

So thank you for your replies just as well we are all different, we love this yard and the owner my son gets on amazingly well with, and my son is going on his first competition next week and YO wont even hear of us paying transport even though its just us and we have to drive 50miles each way and some of the liveries have volunteered to be his groom which he is chuffed about. There is never the "B" on this yard even though some yards have it.

So once again thank you for your views, time moves on things change, views change:)

Here's hoping for a red rosette next week:)
 
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YorksG said:
I *think* the guidelines were draughted with commercial killing in mind, so agree that this is what the guidelines say, but I actually think it is probably in the remaining animals best interests that they can see what happens. Interestingly the mare who was next to her friend had no concern when it was her turn two years later.
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I don't disagree YorksG, I think quite often it can be beneficial for horses to see what is happening. Certainly in my mare's case, it all happened before I was even aware the other horses had been pts, so there was no option to remove her from the vicinity, but in all honesty I was amazed by her response. She used to get terrible separation anxiety, so when I heard that the last of her field mates had been unexpectedly pts that morning, I was in a state thinking she would be going mental as she would be normally if she was left alone. However when I got there, she was as calm as anything, and remained so for a few weeks until a new field mate arrived. Absolutely amazing and it really shocked me.
 
I do think you might be over reacting a little OP. try not to worry, I'm sure your horses will not suffer any lasting effects.
 
I disagree with the majority here.

When we sadly had to have Charlie Horse put to sleep, we did the deed on our front lawn, it was on the way to his field, lovely and familiar surroundings, but with easy access to the driveway for collection.

Our thoughts were with Charles, but still we contacted the local yards, to warn them, even though it was being done by injection. The local horses took a different route (one had an accident because of this, but that is a different story), and at the allotted time Charlie was PTS.

Sadly. in the few minutes that were between the deed and collection (and it was only a very few minutes as the van was waiting just outside the gates) our neighbour's son came out of the house and saw Charlie dead on the lawn. Now our neighbour's son was fast approaching adulthood, and is a farming lad, but still it was a shock for him to witness "Charlie dead on the lawn" as he said when he ran inside to tell his parents.

Much as this is a sad and stressful time I think it is only fair to inform people of what is happening, horse people especially. I realise my mistake in not telling the farmers opposite as well as the local horse people.
 
Red-1 said:
I disagree with the majority here.

When we sadly had to have Charlie Horse put to sleep, we did the deed on our front lawn, it was on the way to his field, lovely and familiar surroundings, but with easy access to the driveway for collection.

Our thoughts were with Charles, but still we contacted the local yards, to warn them, even though it was being done by injection. The local horses took a different route (one had an accident because of this, but that is a different story), and at the allotted time Charlie was PTS.

Sadly. in the few minutes that were between the deed and collection (and it was only a very few minutes as the van was waiting just outside the gates) our neighbour's son came out of the house and saw Charlie dead on the lawn. Now our neighbour's son was fast approaching adulthood, and is a farming lad, but still it was a shock for him to witness "Charlie dead on the lawn" as he said when he ran inside to tell his parents.

Much as this is a sad and stressful time I think it is only fair to inform people of what is happening, horse people especially. I realise my mistake in not telling the farmers opposite as well as the local horse people.
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I'm sorry but if a lad of near adulthood cannot cope with seeing a horse that has been pts then god help him! My OH's six year old son saw a dead horse by pure accident one day (one of the ones that had been pts at our yard) and he managed to cope well enough when we explained what had happened. You cannot expect someone who is going through the trauma of having their horse pts to go around every household in the vicinity to inform people 'just in case' their teenage son sees the body.
 
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