You're beautiful, it's true!

[Reginald]

Here I am taking a breather at my desk, looking out at the lovely land outside. How right Candide was to say that there is nothing so beautiful as the English countryside. I feel so privileged to live in this environment, yet my joy is tempered by the thought that the pleasure so many of my neighbours take from its wildlife derives from trying to destroy it. There's no poetry in deliberately inflicting pain and suffering on creatures. I ultimately feel sorry for hunters that they don't know this.

 

[severnmiles]

The view from your so called office is probably more likely concrete with a touch of 'street art' added.

Don't you think the public must think the countryside is not whole without the addition of red coats and hounds because take a look at Christmas cards, place settings, shot glasses, beer pump handles....

 

[Reginald]

I'm not interested in the public's so-called perception of the countryside - I'm more interested in the real thing. Work!

 

[severnmiles]

I'm not interested in the public's so-called perception of the countryside - I'm more interested in the real thing. Work!

Really? And just what is the 'real' thing?

 

[Tinkerbee]

The real thing wont last too much longer if Labour get their way

 

[BB2008]

Ok - right i'm not one for hunting, never been my thing. However this Reginald is really Pis**ng me off!! Regardless of my beliefs i accept that individuals are entitled to their own beliefs, hence my acceptance of hunting. As long as we eat meat, farm animals and catch fish how the hell can we complain!! What I was really shocked about was how our 'democratic' government treated a minority group (fox hunters), they reacted to an ignorant and uninformed mob to win popularity!! This to me was a far worse crime than any killing of foxes. So Mr Blair firmly put me in the seat of agreeing with hunters! I will always vote for sound politics performed on evidence, understanding and research, never on mob handed politics based upon 'the sun' polls.
Sorry Rant over!!!

 

[Tinkerbee]

You know,

at time I prefer people like you to hunters

 

[tkmaxx]

The countryside is beautiful, but it doesn't come with Park Rangers, Reginald. Those evil animal killers spend thousands of pounds and of hours ensuring it meets your visual criteria.

 

[Reginald]

I don't think hunters are "evil". Some - usually terriermen - are hard-core animal abusers, but most pros are, I suspect, OK people.

What I do find strange is that some people get genuine pleasure from killing. Part of a gamekeeper's job is to control "vermin" - fair enough, he has to kill foxes etc. and it's his job. But what about people who devote much of their time to terrierwork, or ratting? There is something supremely sick in this. And by the way, consider the "visual criteria" of these clowns needed to enjoy the beauty of the countryside when they most enjoy it most when scraping away at the earth like wart-hogs several feet under it.

 

[CARREG]

Reggie
Im with you on this 1,anyone who gets genuine pleasure out of killing animals is a sicko, if a hunting person were to get pleasure from killing animals I'd think them sick. Would you agree that the animal rights people who release captive animals into the wild knowing that the vast majority of them will die or be killed within days are sick, what about the sabs who spray hounds, lead them onto busy roads and railway lines' abuse and intimidate children and women are these people sick. Whats your opinion on the ghouls who dig up the dead in the name of animal rights terrorism,sick...................Carreg

 

[Reginald]

Are you a gamekeeper? If you're not, I find it hard to understand why you dig out foxes. No one's forcing you to do it - you must get some pleasure out of it. My simple point is that on a very basic level I don't understand how you could enjoy killing a creature.

As for the "anti" behaviour you mention I have no problem in unequivocally agreeing with you on every point, though you don't need to delve far in previous posts to find pros crowing over antis being run over or beaten up. I'd also remind you of the behaviour of hunters in Parliament Square when your colleagues threw fireworks and bottles at the police, some of them women. I don't think I've seen a single condemnation of this by a pro.

 

[CARREG]

"......My simple point is that on a very basic level I don't understand how you could enjoy killing a creature....."

My simple point is I dont enjoy killing anything, certain animals have to have their numbers controlled rabbits foxes etc I help control them, no bravado, no macho shite just pure and simple pest control..............Carreg

 

[Reginald]

I can understand your point if you're a gamekeeper i.e. it's part of your job, but if not, why do it if you don't enjoy it? It doesn't make sense.

 

[tkmaxx]

The death isn't what's beautiful, having something work as nature intended is.
I am hoping, in the next couple of years, to get into working lurchers. Not because I want to murder everything that moves but because I love watching them.
The puppy I've been babysitting over the weekend is a jack russell who's owners are interested in using her for ratting. Not because they love killing things, but because it's what she should be doing and it's a useful way of expending her excess energy.

 

[Reginald]

Nature never intended packs of hounds to chase a single fox for up to an hour. The hound is man-made, bred for a single purpose: to provide "sport" for the hunters.

And could you tell me what's "natural" about a pot-bellied oik digging out a fox?

 

[severnmiles]

Whats natural about a tribesman spearing an antelope?

We're not called hunter-gatherer for nothing Reggie. God gave us a fox and lurchers, hounds and terriers to hunt it with.

 

[Reginald]

A hunter-gather hunts for food. Your tribesman needs to kill the antelope to survive. When did you last eat a fox?

 

[tkmaxx]

I've seen footage of wolves chasing a fox for a period of time. You going to tell me we bred them as well?
You can't make an animal do something nature never intended for it. You can't force an animal to start chasing another one if it has no interest in doing so.
I'd like to see you tell my friend's terrier than it's unnatural for her to dig things up. She tore my bedding to shreds looking for rats the other night!

 

[Reginald]

- "I've seen footage of wolves chasing a fox for a period of time. You going to tell me we bred them as well?"

Wolves will try to kill coyotes and similar animals if they see them to reduce the competition, not for food. The idea that a pack of wolves will set out to hunt a fox for an hour is preposterous.

- "You can't make an animal do something nature never intended for it."

Elephants balancing on balls? Seals clapping? Pointers pointing? Retrievers retrieving?

- "I'd like to see you tell my friend's terrier than it's unnatural for her to dig things up."

Terriers have been bred to do what they do. In this sense they're man-made. Besides, it's not terriers who do the digging but their owners who think they're big men.

 

[severnmiles]

A hunter-gather hunts for food. Your tribesman needs to kill the antelope to survive. When did you last eat a fox?

He eats my lamb. Tribesmen kill lions and tigers and crocs that might kill their Ox. What are your thoughts on that?

 

[Reginald]

Tribesmen don't kill crocs because they nab their oxen (you don't get too many in the enclosures they use to keep stock). In Africa they kill crocs to eat them. Tribesmen will kill a problem lion but it's a very rare event and dangerous one at that. In other words it bears no relation to foxhunting where the ultimate objective isn't "vermin" control but sport, and where fox numbers have traditionally been artificially boosted by hunts with the sole aim of hunting them.

If you have to control fox numbers fair enough. What I don't understand is how someone can get genuine pleasure from killing them. Certain hunters - notably terriermen - fall into this category. Another weirdo group are people who go from farm to farm begging the farmers to let them go ratting on their land. Very strange unpleasant people.

 

[severnmiles]

You seem to have an obsession with terriermen.

I've been honest and said in some areas of England I don't feel hunting probably is the best method of fox control but in areas of Yorkshire/Devon and Wales it most definitely is fox control and not sport. But in England it is not just about fox control, hunts provide much more than that.

Quick answer as gotta dash...be back in a bit!

 

[RunToEarth]

Well, you see honeybun, hunting with hounds is actually banned now, so you can rest easy on that. Although I'd probably say that you are the sort of people that are taking the countryside from its rightful owners, the people who know it, the people who understands how it works, and what t needs to do that, those people have never worked in offices, I safely say they are not you, their countryside is never simply to be looked at, but to be worked on.

 

[Nickijem]

This beautiful countryside you are looking at ... does it have a few woodland and copses dotted around? or is it a beautiful heather covered moor? does it have natural enclosures such as hedges?
If so .. why do you think they exist? They are there as cover for pheasant, grouse etc for shooting.
Take away the hunters and shooters and you will take away that beautiful countryside that you are admiring.
It looks the way it does thanks to centuries of management by folk who know what they are doing - it isn't beautiful by accident.

 

[Reginald]

"It looks the way it does thanks to centuries of management by folk who know what they are doing."

Precisely: decent, honest, hard-working country folk who rely on the land for their living and not as some sports ground, in contrast to silly hunting fanatics like Otis Ferry and his chums. Stop treating the countryside as some vast Disneyworld for your amusement.

 

[severnmiles]

"It looks the way it does thanks to centuries of management by folk who know what they are doing."

Precisely: decent, honest, hard-working country folk who rely on the land for their living.

You do realise you would struggle to find the above in anti form.

 

[Daisychain]

Actually find your views very interesting, my husband thinks on a very similar wavelength to yourself, he always maintains that a large majority hunt because they like killing foxes, and it pees him off that they just dont admit it... by the way im on the fence!

 

[severnmiles]

My ex OH hunts purely to kill foxes and he'd admit to anyone who asked. I however, don't and to say the vast majority do is very naive especially considering in larger hunts they probably only see the hounds at the meet and a couple of times throughout the day and would very rarely if ever see a kill first hand, most would probably be too filled up on port or sloe gin to even notice!

 

[PaddyMonty]

For the majority, hunting (foxes) is not about killing. Its about the opportunity to ride in a way and over land not offered in any other equine discipline.

PS...I'm a closet anti

 

[Reginald]

Timefaulter, I'm sure you're right about foxhunting. People like the social aspect, the horses, the riding, watching the hounds etc and I can genuinely see why this is attractive. On a very personal level I would find it hard to enjoy this, however, if th ultimate aim is to kill a fox.

I also think that with other forms of hunting the cruelty element is much more obvious. Hunting deer with hounds is an onbvious example, where the creature is chased for three hours. Not fun in my book, especially for the deer.