Zero knowledge of horses ....please go easy on me

[Derbyram]

Hi all please go easy on me I am here for some advice and at this moment i know less than zero about keeping horses. We have two adjacent fields about 5.5 and 7 acres. Access is ok and off a quietish country lane. I'm thinking of building a DIY livery stables, my first questions are 'is it feasible/sensible given the expense of building the stables?' and 'what would be a sensible number of stables/horses on this area of land?' as ideas on this seem to vary massively...many thanks

 

[Denali]

To start I would learn about horse keeping. That will answer all your questions and also help you avoid people who are less than consistent with care.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

First figure out how much land you need to use for facilities:
Stables, school, secure tack room, feed room, muck heap, parking, lorry parking.

What are ground conditions / weather like where you are? If its wet and muddy then you can only do all year turnout if you have winter and summer paddocks that can be rested. If you want more horses on the land then they can't be on it 24/7 then you need a good area / school to keep horses exercised. What are the hacking routes like around your land? Is there good access to bridleways for off road riding?

The fewer horses you put on the land, the fewer facilties you need and the cheaper it is. The more horses you accommodate, the more facilties you have to make available.

 

[meleeka]

Welcome. I’d say if you want to rent it out, go sole use, rather than a livery yard. It will be a lot less stress for you.

 

[Patterdale]

You can’t run a livery yard if you don’t know anything about horses, there’s a lot to it.

 

[Maxidoodle]

If you know nothing about horses then you need to think about renting it out for sole use only, someone will snap your hand off, they can put mobile stables on (at their cost) and they do the maintenance and then you charge just the rental fee. DIY is an absolute nightmare and your stress levels will be through the roof, like many on here, I’ve many many years with horses, ran multiple yards (never offered DIY as it’s not worth the stress) and stopped doing it because of the stress, insurance costs etc etc, you’ll make zero money for a lot of hassle. Sole use, with the right person will be the easiest option for you.

 

[Horseysheepy]

Another thing to factor in is your privacy. Unless you restrict visiting times, liveries will turn up at different times of the day. Eg. 5.30am, and in the summer, some may be still doing their horses at 9pm.
People on DIY have to fit their horse's care around jobs and or child care.
Also, in an emergency, you may have a livery knocking on your door at any time,or calling you if your assistance is needed.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Welcome. I’d say if you want to rent it out, go sole use, rather than a livery yard. It will be a lot less stress for you.

This would definitely be best for you.
Running a livery yard is hard work and you do need the knowledge behind you.

 

[meleeka]

Another thing to factor in is your privacy. Unless you restrict visiting times, liveries will turn up at different times of the day. Eg. 5.30am, and in the summer, some may be still doing their horses at 9pm.
People on DIY have to fit their horse's care around jobs and or child care.
Also, in an emergency, you may have a livery knocking on your door at any time,or calling you if your assistance is needed.

Agree with this. DIY is never truly that on a yard as you will get called upon for emergency fence repairs that their horses create, neglected horses or any other problem that the liveries deem to be ‘your problem’.

 

[Goldie's mum]

Hi Derbyram, welcome to the forum.
I'm interested why you would think of that as a use for your land. Are you in a very horsey area or do you have a household member who is keen on it?

If you are under the impression that it would be a way of making money from the land I'd have a look at the recent thread on whether running a livery breaks even. Bear in mind the thread was from the point of view of someone buying a property that already had all the facilities and no start-up expenses. The general opinion seems to be that people make a small yearly loss (not including any capital expenditure) but that it might be worth it for non-financial reasons , eg if their own horse needs company. I'll go & find it & post a link here, hang on..

Here you go..

Those of you with your own small yards...

Evening, I'm curious really and on the cusp of making a decision! Those of you who have small livery yards (DIY - no more than 5 horses), do you make money from having them on your land? We bought a 15 acre small holding last year and inherited 2 lovely liveries (with 2 horses each), its been...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

 

[Ambers Echo]

As others have said - solo use. You will never make money DIY, and will spend hours and hours every day working hard to a fail to make money while your land gets completely trashed. DIY livery is an endless nightmare for many land owners! There are some very lucky exceptions - my friend is on a small DIY yard where the land owner knows nothing about horses and leaves the liveres to get on with everything on their own. But there are only about 8 of them, they are all reasonable and lovely people, they agree among themselves how to manage the fields etc, and they have been there together for years. It only takes a couple to move off, 2 difficut liveries to move on and the whole thing would falls apart.

 

[Goldie's mum]

If you know nothing about horses then you need to think about renting it out for sole use only, someone will snap your hand off, they can put mobile stables on (at their cost) and they do the maintenance and then you charge just the rental fee. DIY is an absolute nightmare and your stress levels will be through the roof, like many on here, I’ve many many years with horses, ran multiple yards (never offered DIY as it’s not worth the stress) and stopped doing it because of the stress, insurance costs etc etc, you’ll make zero money for a lot of hassle. Sole use, with the right person will be the easiest option for you.

If rented out "sole use" would the land owner still be the one legally responsible if there was a welfare issue?

 

[Highmileagecob]

Go and talk to farmers/owners in the area that already do this. Hear first hand about the untidyness, taps left running, lights left on, abandoned vehicles/horses/rubbish etc. and decide whether it outweighs your view of livery. My yard runs as above, with land owner taking no part in the day to day running, and yes - we have a new livery with a 3y.o. who does not want to fit in with the way the yard runs. She is knocking on the owner's door weekly with supposed tales of woe.

 

[Pinkvboots]

You won't get rich running DIY livery I would just rent it for sole use and it might be better to just put a few field shelters on your land rather than build stables.

When you start getting into livery alot of people also want an arena to ride in, you also need separate storage for everyone it gets expensive.

What you want is someone that has multiple horses that perhaps they don't do much with so don't require much in the way of facilities.

 

[Rowreach]

I'd rent it out on a grazing agreement (10 months of the year which guarantees it gets a rest and prevents a permanent tenancy being established), preferably to someone with a few sheep and/to take a cut of hay off it.

Liveries are nothing but hassle, will cost you money in the long run, and the legal duty of care to the horses stops with you as the yard owner.

 

[Derbyram]

To start I would learn about horse keeping. That will answer all your questions and also help you avoid people who are less than consistent with care.

thanks for the reply and fair comment but at the moment it's a feasibility study as to whether the venture would actually be viable and ultimately financially worth the set up and ongoing costs involved.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

If rented out "sole use" would the land owner still be the one legally responsible if there was a welfare issue?

Yes, and for straying liabilities if fences not secure.

 

[ycbm]

Go for dog exercise areas, you'll make a lot more money for a lot less work and fuss.
.

 

[Derbyram]

First figure out how much land you need to use for facilities:
Stables, school, secure tack room, feed room, muck heap, parking, lorry parking.

What are ground conditions / weather like where you are? If its wet and muddy then you can only do all year turnout if you have winter and summer paddocks that can be rested. If you want more horses on the land then they can't be on it 24/7 then you need a good area / school to keep horses exercised. What are the hacking routes like around your land? Is there good access to bridleways for off road riding?

The fewer horses you put on the land, the fewer facilties you need and the cheaper it is. The more horses you accommodate, the more facilties you have to make available.

thanks for your reply, yes of course all your items listed will eat into the land. I would say the ground quality is good, both fields are gentle slopes facing south. There are a couple of stable blocks been built a quarter of a mile down the lane (by the same guy but a couple of years apart) which suggests the market is there. I would consider it a really good hacking position. There is a long established riding school less than a mile down the lane. Everyone else's post has now terrified me tho!

 

[Derbyram]

Welcome. I’d say if you want to rent it out, go sole use, rather than a livery yard. It will be a lot less stress for you.

thanks for your comment, there's a lot of people in agreement with you.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Welcome. I’d say if you want to rent it out, go sole use, rather than a livery yard. It will be a lot less stress for you.

Exactly what I was thinking!
If you want to rent it to someone who doesn't need it all for their own use, allow them to take liveries and manage them, themselves.

You would never make back the cost of your investment in facilities by offering ad-hoc DIY livery.

 

[Derbyram]

If you know nothing about horses then you need to think about renting it out for sole use only, someone will snap your hand off, they can put mobile stables on (at their cost) and they do the maintenance and then you charge just the rental fee. DIY is an absolute nightmare and your stress levels will be through the roof, like many on here, I’ve many many years with horses, ran multiple yards (never offered DIY as it’s not worth the stress) and stopped doing it because of the stress, insurance costs etc etc, you’ll make zero money for a lot of hassle. Sole use, with the right person will be the easiest option for you.

thanks for your reply, so i'm assuming that sole use would be for one owner with multiple horses? Is this a common set up?

 

[Derbyram]

Go for dog exercise areas, you'll make a lot more money for a lot less work and fuss.
.

thanks for the reply, i had considered that but it seems a big area to have an occasional dog walker. At the moment it is mown once per year and used as emergency grazing for a herd of sheep.

 

[Gloi]

Go for dog exercise areas, you'll make a lot more money for a lot less work and fuss.
.

Yes, they seem to be in great demand at the moment.

 

[Derbyram]

tha

I'd rent it out on a grazing agreement (10 months of the year which guarantees it gets a rest and prevents a permanent tenancy being established), preferably to someone with a few sheep and/to take a cut of hay off it.

Liveries are nothing but hassle, will cost you money in the long run, and the legal duty of care to the horses stops with you as the yard owner.

Thanks for your reply, everyone seems to think similar.

 

[Gloi]

thanks for your reply, so i'm assuming that sole use would be for one owner with multiple horses? Is this a common set up?

Ideally someone who wants somewhere to run young stock, so they aren't looking for facilities to ride or store tack.
I agree, if you haven't got years of horse experience,or even then, don't have multiple liveries.
Secure fence an acre and you can have a dog exercise park to hire out by the hour.

 

[Derbyram]

Go and talk to farmers/owners in the area that already do this. Hear first hand about the untidyness, taps left running, lights left on, abandoned vehicles/horses/rubbish etc. and decide whether it outweighs your view of livery. My yard runs as above, with land owner taking no part in the day to day running, and yes - we have a new livery with a 3y.o. who does not want to fit in with the way the yard runs. She is knocking on the owner's door weekly with supposed tales of woe.

Thanks for the reply, yours is typical of the responses, there's no smoke and all that.

 

[ycbm]

thanks for the reply, i had considered that but it seems a big area to have an occasional dog walker. At the moment it is mown once per year and used as emergency grazing for a herd of sheep.

Depending on where you are it wouldn't be the occasional walker. Take a look at some of the threads on All About Dogs to see the problems that people are having walking dogs in public areas. Close to urban development, I understand that there is considerable demand for safely fenced play areas for dogs.

Trust us, you don't want DiY liveries, even horse lovers have problems with DiY liveries.
.

 

[Derbyram]

Ideally someone who wants somewhere to run young stock, so they aren't looking for facilities to ride or store tack.
I agree, if you haven't got years of horse experience,or even then, don't have multiple liveries.
Secure fence an acre and you can have a dog exercise park to hire out by the hour.

thanks, really appreciate your advice.

 

[D66]

thanks for the reply, i had considered that but it seems a big area to have an occasional dog walker. At the moment it is mown once per year and used as emergency grazing for a herd of sheep.

Dog exercise fields have online booking systems and are booked by the hour. You need a secure fence and an off road parking. Customers should pick up poo after their animals.