£12,500 damages for man who broke arm in horse fall

[SummerStorm]

Riding is a risk sport, and accidents will happen no matter how careful you are. I'm not saying that what the instructors did was right or wrong but at the end of the day, how can anyone say that a broken arm is worth over £12,000?!

Good god, what is this country coming to

 

[Sooty]

It doesn't discriminate as such, but if a shop says it doesn't levy a surcharge for the use of credit cards, or offeres interest free credit, then gives a discount for cash, it amounts to the same thing so they can't do it. Plus it is of no benefit to the shop to receive cash as banks charge a fortune for handling it.

 

[Sooty]

Well, at least he fell into a bed of nettles! I do think that the riding school should have assessed his obvious lack of ability before setting off, but I also think that if you take part in a sport like riding then you can expect accidents. I think the payout is ludicrous.

 

[weevil]

Actually I agree with you Pixie. I'm very surprised the didn't asses the competence of the riders before they set off on the hack. At all of the riding schools I have been to recently they have at the very least taken me into a school and watched me walk, trot and canter round before letting me go out on a hack. If they are not going to do any checks then IMO the instructors should not have even tried to go faster then a walk.

 

[Gingernags]

[ QUOTE ]
at the end of the day, how can anyone say that a broken arm is worth over £12,000?!

Good god, what is this country coming to

[/ QUOTE ]

How much did the families of 7/7 victims get again?

 

[ExRacers]

Totally farcical!!

How funny were some of the comments below the article though ???!!!

 

[magic104]

I have to agree, 1st lesson should consist of no more then walking & some round the worlds etc. I think to expect a complete beginner to stay on at trot is asking for problems.

 

[HarrietB]

These stories seem to be becoming so frequent now . . . it's really frightening the increasing number of riding schools that are having to close because of high insurance premiums. Seems everyone is out for making a quick buck these days, no matter what the consequences. Makes me so cross!

 

[emma69]

I have to say that given the limited account here, I probably agree with the judgement. It's not that riding is a risk sport, I think most people accept that, but that he hadn't been given sufficient instruction on how to deal with a common situation (stopping / horse eating grass etc) We used to take out total novices on hacks, but there were plenty of instructors, and we always had the option of ride and lead if it was necessary. Before setting out we would cover the basics in the school if necessary, including how to get on and off, how to stop, and how to stop the horse eating it's way round on the hack. If he had been given insufficient instruction, then the staff in this case probably were negligent. I am guessing the award is based on him not being able to work for 10 weeks and therefore not being able to earn sales commission - 12k for that, pain and suffering and associated costs probably isn't too unreasoable if he could prove a high loss of earnings in that time

 

[giggles mum]

At the riding school I work at, beginners are often taken out on hacks because that is where most of their business comes from - tourists who want to have a go. However they are kept on a lead rein at all times and will only attempt a short trot if they want to and the instructor thinks they are capable. Even then, as they are on a lead rein the instructor would usually ask them to hold onto the saddle ofr the first time.

Just thought it was worth pointing out that this is where many riding schools (particularly near a city like this one) make their money, and it is possible to do it in a sensible, relatively safe way.

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

I agree with pixie, there should have been an assessment before they were taken for a hack!

 

[conniegirl]

good god, when will people realise that its a high risk sport! 4 riding schools have closed in my area in the last year, the first to go did treks, all of them closed due to insurance raises.

 

[k9h]

You cant do around the worlds as of H&S havent been able for a few years in pony club same as not riding without stirrups or reins. Will be interesting to see how the level of our top riders stays or go's down because they wont of learnt what to true balance is. I would imagine Mr. Stickability (Andrew Nicholson) did lots of riding bareback for he is truly naturally balanced no matter what the horse is like under him. Doubt we will get many more like him or Ginny, Lucinda, Mary, William & the likes...Because of darn H&S

 

[Jiffy]

Oh well... I guess that's at least one more riding school closure in the Edinburgh region over the next 12 months.

I'm surprised how many people slate the riding centre for not giving proper instruction or proper assessment.

We weren't there, so can't say what assessment was made, we don't know how big the 'group' was, nor how competent the instructors were? I imagine that say 10+ salesmen & their ego's might prove a little daunting for a couple of young AI's. I'd be interested to know from a medical point of view how a broken arm warrants 10wks off work, when he spent only 2 nights in hospital?

 

[emma69]

I did say based on the information given in mine.

10 weeks off work could be 6-8 weeks in plaster followed by a few weeks of physio before he could drive again - if he is required to drive between appointments that would be legitimate.

 

[Mr_Ed]

I tend to side with the views expressed by Pixie, henryhorn and emma69.

It's difficult (and sometimes dangerous!) to comment on an individual case without being in possession of the full facts - which of course the court would have been when making the judgment.

It would be interesting to know if the injured person’s company had undertaken a risk assessment. Perhaps the claim should have been against his company. I'm not a lawyer so I wouldn't want to profess understanding the legal niceties.

Undoubtedly, riding is a risk sport. We all know that there are inherent risks with riding or simply being around horses. But often we can minimise and control many of the risks. Safety needs to be kept in perspective and rather than "health & safety" preventing us from doing things, we should be looking at how we can do things safely and use "safety" to protect people, horses and businesses.

I have tremendous sympathy with the problems that riding schools are facing. I have been brought up through the riding school system and many do a tremendous job - not only as the entry point into the sport, but also in further developing riders. They have an essential role to play. But also, with many of them trading in the margins they are under enormous pressure. Therefore, there are often difficult decisions to take about the type of business they get involved in. "Corporate entertainment" is a useful source of additional income and may well benefit the sport by creating interest and enthusiasm from those that haven't ridden before.

The difficulty with this type of group of riders is that they may not necessarily be there by choice, but as part of a group who are told they “are going to have a jolly good time". Some who would prefer not to go may not necessarily show dissent.

What is important in cases like this is to find out what went wrong and why. Learn from it and then share that learning across other businesses, in the hope that it might prevent something similar happening again.

Just as an aside, a director of one of the large equestrian insurance companies recently confirmed that insurance premiums have now stabilised.

The website of the stables concerned is:

http://www.lasswadestables.com/index.html

For those who keep ranting about health & safety stopping everything they should "get a life" by reading the Health & Safety Executive’s campaign for sensible safety

http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2006/c06021.htm

Just recently, the Compensation Act has received Royal assent which seeks to clarify the law of negligence and regulate the "no-win -- no fee" lawyers

http://www.dca.gov.uk/legist/compensation.htm

And if you think that every case brought is successful you should read the cases in the following newsletter

http://www.ridingsafely.net/legal_cases_pjmdp.html

 

[Jiffy]

I wonder if the fact that this a government-owned organisation that he works for and the fact that a man of the same name donated a sum of money to Tessa Jowell MP in the same year that this accident occured is a mere coincidence?

...And of course Emma69, salesmen are never ever capable of working from the office or home are they? (Except for the ones I know, who spend more time at home & travelling in chaffeur-driven cars.)

 

[emma69]

I think it is dependent on their specific job - I've known some that would be stuffed if they couldn't drive, as they only do their meetings face to face (for products that are demod to the client or people who sell things like heating systems / windows / made to measure appliances etc that are done in the clients home, people selling houses who have to show people round, people selling livestock etc) Not saying this is for sure in this case, but it could be.

Then again I do have a certain amount of sympathy - I couldn't work when my hand was broken in a car smash and whilst I am certainly not claiming anything like 12k, I am claiming for loss of earnings during that time, as it wasn't my fault, and bills still need to be paid.

I had someone try and sue us (the riding school) a few years back. They fell off (accident) but it was a long process determining if there was any negligence on our part (was the horse suitable, tack suitable, instructor suitable etc etc etc) In the end, they ruled that no, it was just an accident, not negligence, and I presume this case went through similar processes. In some cases, instructors / yard owners / trek leaders are negligent, and whilst the no win no fee type of solicitors make me want to rip my own fingernails out, there does need to be some recourse for those people who suffer because of someone else's actions. We are all close to horse riding as a pasttime, so maybe take another 'risk sport' as an example - parachuting - if the instructor failed to tell a pupil a key part of the procedure, and that participant died or was injured, the instructor would be negligent for not making the sport as safe as possible by providing all information.

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
"I kept yelling 'Whoa boy' the way they do in Westerns, but it had no effect."

[/ QUOTE ]

*snort* What a tw*t!! Did he yell "Yeehaaaa!!" as well to get neddy going? Sounds like a complete numpty!

 

[PapaFrita]

This comment by Spondoolicks made me laugh

"Surely the horse could appeal on the grounds of equine distress caused by having someone from Birmingham on his back"

And this one

"The injured rider added: "I kept yelling 'Whoa boy' the way they do in Westerns, but it had no effect.

No sh#t sherlock!"

Hee hee

I'm with Jiffy on this though...

 

[Tia]

I used to keep my ponies on full livery at these stables 30 years ago. Mine were there for a couple of years and on a few occasions when I turned up during the week (when I wasn't expected) almost every time my ponies were without hay or water. The final straw was when I came up one weekday and found that they were using one of my ponies in a lesson! One of my ponies that my parents were paying for FULL livery on, that belonged to me and they were certainly NOT given permission to use the pony at all.....ever. My father was incensed and we moved the ponies to another stables that very day.

I used to be asked to lead out hacks at times - even though I was a very competent rider, I was only a little child at the time and yet I was in charge of several (often beginner) riders out in the middle of nowhere. Nothing untoward ever happened when I took them out but what's to say it couldn't have? I wonder how old and experienced the leaders were...

Anyway, Marjory will overcome this judgement and the stables won't close down - they have weathered FAR worse than this over the years. Many years ago they built an enormous house without planning permission - a few years later they were ordered to tear it down......so if they can ride that sort of cost-loss then I would imagine £12K is not going to even nearly break the bank.

All I am saying is; don't be too quick to judge - none of us know exactly what went on. Yes I agree the guy does sound like a wimp, but that isn't really the point.


Anyway getting back to some of the comments made on here. I own a trail riding farm; NOT a riding school; people do not come here to learn how to ride; they come here because they fancy something different. Hardly any of my riders can ride, most have never been on a horse in their lives. I do not offer a pre-ride lesson; all that happens here is that they wander round my big corral and I make sure that they can steer, stop and go......then off we go. Never had any mishaps although I don't take more than 2 beginner riders out at any one time. If I have any more than 4 riders then I take another trail guide with me to keep an eye on the ones at the back. I never go faster than a walk and thankfully my guys know their jobs pretty well. My trails in the woods were cut to only 6ft wide at the widest point so if any horse were to try to trot off then both of my lead horses are perfectly capable of spinning sideways to stop it. None of them do try to trot off though. The worst they will do is drop their heads and snatch at some grass, but I watch behind me constantly so I can see if anyone has stopped and I stop so there is only a couple of steps for their horse to make to catch up again.

All of my riders have to sign a waiver form - this does not cover against someone choosing to sue....but it does cover me and the farm from being personally sued - the insurance company picks up the tab.

 

[Mr_Ed]

We're not party to all the details of this case. A lot has happened over 30 years, not least the introduction of the Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 which provides the overarching legislation we have today. It's a sad fact that 30+ years on many businesses, not just equestrian ones aren't sometimes aware of what they are legally required to and how to do it.

The establishment in question does have "Rider Registration" forms on its web site which it requires all new riders to complete.

On those forms there are the words "I confirm that the above pre-assessed abilities are correct and I agree that I RIDE ENTIRELY AT MY OWN RISK.

Further on in the same form there are the additional words

I acknowledge THAT RIDING IS A RISK SPORT AND HOLDS A POTENTIAL DANGER, and that all horses may react unpredictably on occasions.

Therefore they are using the industry-standard form that was introduced as a suite of forms to try to address the issue of civil litigation.

There are three forms: 1) Rider Registration Form; 2) Horse Assessment Form; 3) Instructor/Escort Details Form. They can be seen on the BHS web site below and are suggested templates.

http://www.bhs.org.uk/Content/Ods-More.a...ions&area=9

Using such forms can be very beneficial in the event of a civil claim.

Getting back to your trail riding business you obviously assessed the risks and are controlling them. I suspect that in addition you properly thought out what to do if something goes wrong a ride in terms of accidents. You got a simple approach to risk assessment that so many people seem to get hung up on. All people need to do is to record it. Having thought it through in advance and putting in the measures to stop the accidents in the first place means hopefully the claims won't happen and where they do you are in a better position to defend them. I bet your clients have a good time and a positive experience that might make them think about taking up riding more seriously.

Good health & safety, apart from being a legal requirement is a public expectation these days and to a certain extent is no more than good practice. Getting it right can really enhance your business and getting it wrong can be enough to put you out of business!

The subject of disclaimers is interesting. No disclaimers is going to protect you if you've been negligent.

However, in Australia they have some interesting ones which really spell out the risks and the client obligations.

Download a waiver from the right-hand side of this web page:

http://www.horsecouncil.org.au/content.asp?z=4&c=100&p=336

 

[samsaccount]

*rolls eyes* if that guy thought shouting 'woah' like in the films to make the horse stop it makes me wonder if he has tried other things from the films such as kicking the horse in order to make it 'go'....i dont see why people make such a fuss over things like this at the end of the day it is a risky sport and it is their own choice to do it or not so i don't think that compensation should be rewarded, the amount of riders who have suffered injuries though falls and have not had a sum of money paid to them! although i would very much like to be paid every time i fall off!! I very much doubt that the riders were taken out and 'made' to trot if they were not capable. Especially since we have people like him suing for a fall, i doubt riding school owners/employers would take that risk!!

 

[Chex]

Crazyness. I know this yard quite well, and I think its harsh they're having to pay out for an accident that they couldn't have prevented! I would never dream of doing something like sueing, how stupid do you have to be to not realise that horses are big, unpredictable animals!

 

[burtie]

I have to say for once I'm not surprised they were sued and the person won. I am totally against the sueing culture, but it does seem common sense went out the window a bit here. Even 15 years ago when i worked with horse we did these coporate treks. A quick safetey brefing was always given and then we would go out at a walk only with the guides on foot and always 2 of us. They only walked, however if some had obviously ridden before thet were allowed a short slow trot (we used to run alongside!!).

I would never ever have attempted to trot with a whole ride with any beginners.

 

[Jiffy]

The company this guy works for is a not-for-profit organisation owned wholly by the British Government.

The products they 'provide' are plasma imported from the USA to avoid the contamination of variant CJD which might contaminate British plasma, therefore I guess not a door-to-door salesman Emma.

 

[rosita]

Am sure there will be an appeal, feel torn in this case. Horse riding is a high risk sport, and the minimal facts that are presented in the report are no basis for a judgement. There fore i feel i cannot give one. All I have is one of the first things I learnt on my degree, 'you cannot negate liability for personal injury through negligence,' My spelling has degenerated but the law regarding that has not.

 

[Skhosu]

re: the comments about h+s and riding w/out stirrups etc. I have to say just because PC isn't allowed to do it does not mean it will not happen, it is not the only source of teaching!
Certainly at my PC we still do w/o stirrups, and in my lessons at home I ride w/out stirrups and outside of my lessons too...
So I think we will still get the greats.
There is too much H+S but maybe better too much than too little?

 

[Moggy in Manolos]

£12500 for a bloody broken arm, how rediculous, what is the world coming to! 50 years ago there would be no compensation, you would be told thats the risk of horse riding really,from his quotes off the news story he sounds like a complete twit.
Maybe the riding school did not do all they should have done, but £12500!!!!!! come off it

 

[flying_change]

I'm with you. If a stables agrees to put a complete novice on a horse, it has a duty to instruct and (more important) protect.

By the way, I looked at the pics on that stables website. Didnt like the picture of the girl in trainers at all.....


RS