£12,500 damages for man who broke arm in horse fall

[Mr_Ed]

Quote: I think no amount of risk assessments forming filling etc etc will stop riders falling off!

Whenever anyone gets on a horse there is always the inherent risk that something may happen causing them to fall off. The only sure thing about riding is that sooner or later you will fall off. Risk assessment isn't about form filling. Do you fill out a risk assessment form every time you cross the road? Of course not. But you do undertake a risk assessment - albeit mentally. It's part of our daily lives. If we didn't correctly assess the risks we wouldn't be here very long. But remember that there's no such thing as absolute safety. By correctly assessing and controlling the risks the likelihood of someone falling off can be minimised. That's the point about risk assessment Assessing the capability of a rider, matching that to an appropriate horse, an appropriate standard of teaching and the right level of activity will go a long way to minimising the risk. I don't think anybody would take a complete beginner, stick them on a racehorse and send them off for eight furlongs. That's because the risk is assessed and considered too great......

Quote: Most riding schools I have visited are run by caring people who do everything possible to stop accidents.

No proprietor wants or needs an accident. They're unpleasant, bad for morale, bad for publicity and certainly bad for business. You're absolutely right that most riding schools are run by caring people. Thank goodness that we still have riding schools. Most of them to try to stop accidents. What's important when accident happens is to determine why it happened and ask the question "can we do anything to stop it happening again?"
It's important to learn from accidents and share that learning with other people. Even better if people have training in the first place to properly assess the risks and minimise the likelihood of accidents happening.

Quote: Thirty years ago many were poorly run with uncaring owners.

I was riding in riding schools 30 years ago and the ones that I rode in were well run by caring owners. The phrase "health and safety" wasn't one that you heard very much in those days. But health and safety was interpreted as good or best practice -- which after all. is all that it is.

Quote: Any riding school with a poor H/S record is uninsurable

Any riding school with a poor health & safety record is probably out of business. Good safety really is good business!

 

[Puppy]

[ QUOTE ]
I think no amounts of risk assesments forming filling etc etc will stop riders falling off!

[/ QUOTE ]

ERM!! Clearly, but I don't quite understand how that relates to this matter we are discussing here; regarding having a duty to take reasonable step to *try* and prevent foreseeable harm, not preventing it altogether. There's no strict liability for riding schools......

[ QUOTE ]
Most riding schools I have visited are run by caring people who do everything possible to stop accidents. Thirty years ago many were poorly run with uncaring owners. Any riding school with a poor H/S record is uninsurable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting, sweeping statement........... but I don't really think it is that accurate or relevant.......

Have you read the whole thread..............?!?!

 

[tiggersdad]

Twelve local riding schools have closed mostly due to high insurance costs. Common sense tells us horse riding is a risk sport. In America I have been riding many times. Sueing is a way of life. However I have had to sign a disclaimer each time which I believe stops me suing them. Incidently no one wears hats or seems to have basic H/S ideas. Ive been asked are you a novice because Im wearing my hat.

 

[emma69]

Signing a disclaimer does not mean you cannot sue them for negligence, however, there is a large section of society who haven't got a clue that the piece of paper they signed means diddly squat if the riding school were negligent - hence one reason why they are so keen on them...

 

[Puppy]

[ QUOTE ]
Twelve local riding schools have closed mostly due to high insurance costs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Riiiiiight.... and the point is??? That's a whole different matter - you can't decide whether or not liability exists based on that fact.

[ QUOTE ]
Common sense tells us horse riding is a risk sport.

[/ QUOTE ]

Riiiight, yes, agreed. But again - what is the relevance to this thread. Driving on the motorway is high risk, and yet we still do it. And we expect the other motorists to take due care and attention on the road; they have a duty to do so. Same as a riding school has a duty to take due care. No one was talking about strict liability just a duty of care.

[ QUOTE ]
In America I have been riding many times. Sueing is a way of life.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't understand people who feel they can comment on cases and the laws of negligence, such as this case, when they know so little on the topic that they aren't even aware that America has very different laws on negligence to England.

[ QUOTE ]
However I have had to sign a disclaimer each time which I believe stops me suing them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again - different laws. I very much doubt that the US uses the British statue I mentioned earlier relating to disclaimers

 

[Mr_Ed]

Quote: Twelve local riding schools have closed mostly due to high insurance costs.

It's a great shame that so many riding schools in your area have closed and a great shame that all those people who want to ride or don't own horses and want to continue their equestrian education are unable to do so. But it's a rather sweeping statement to say that they have closed mostly due to high insurance costs. There are many pressures on riding schools including business rates, concerns about potential litigation and understanding the requirements of health & safety -- both of which can usually be resolved through training resulting in effective risk management, and last but not least the agro associated with dealing with the parents when their kids are having lessons! Keeping riding school full of horses isn't cheap either. With many establishments trading in the margins, the softer options, usually by choice, are to continue as livery yards.

I think it's worth mentioning that those establishments using the recommended forms are not issuing disclaimers. The rider registration form is not a disclaimer. It simply aims to collect personal information about the rider and a self-assessment of the rider's abilities. These proclaimed abilities are then assessed by a competent instructor and the assessment recorded. The rider is asked to sign a statement that the information that they have given is to their knowledge correct. The form does contain some statements about riding being a risk sport. But there is nothing in this form that disclaims anything. As mentioned in a previous thread if anyone wants to have a look, the form can be found at: http://www.bhs.org.uk/Content/Ods-More.a...ions&area=9

Quote: In America....... no one wears hats or seems to have basic H/S ideas. Ive been asked are you a novice because Im wearing my hat.

Unfortunately, people do wear hats less in America which is why they have substantially more deaths as a result of head injuries than in this country. You should have a look at the American Medical Equestrian Association page on the subject at http://www.ameaonline.org/helmet_safety.html

Health & safety is on the American Equestrian agenda.

 

[merlinsquest]

Right...Cat amongst the pigeons and all that, but here goes.

If you attend a motor racing event in this country (i.e British Grand Prix) there is a cute little phrase published on the back of the ticket to the effect that 'Motor Racing is a dangerous sport - we will do our best to ensure your safety but you are present at your own risk'.

How come they can get away with it and not Riding Stables ?

 

[JessPickle]

Well I dont think he deserves £12500 but the riding school was pretty stupid to take complete novices on a hack with no tutition! at our yard you have an have a private assessment lesson before doing anything and if you are not good enough plain a simple you either have some lessons or go on a walk up the bridleway on the leadrein

 

[teapot]

That's on the sign at the entrance to my yard and on the forms you have to sign

 

[emma69]

Because accidents do happen - it is no different to the riding school signs that you see almost everywhere now. However, if the organizers put the crowd too close, forgot to install a safety barrier etc, then they would be negligent and the warning on the back of the ticket would be meaningless.

 

[Puppy]

[ QUOTE ]
Right...Cat amongst the pigeons and all that, but here goes.

If you attend a motor racing event in this country (i.e British Grand Prix) there is a cute little phrase published on the back of the ticket to the effect that 'Motor Racing is a dangerous sport - we will do our best to ensure your safety but you are present at your own risk'.

How come they can get away with it and not Riding Stables ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well for a start those are "sort of" attempted disclaimers from negligence under the Occupiers Liability Act, not a disclaimer from negligence of a business offering a professional service (i.e. riding lessons) and so different; The difference between you merely being on someones premises spectating, and the duty they owe you as the property owner, as opposed to you actually partaking in an activity there, and their duty as the activity organiser.

Secondly - that isn't really a true disclaimer - it isn't saying "we are not liable for anything that happens to you fullstop" - it is saying "we do our best, (which is all they are legally obliged to), but it is a risky sport (even to spectate) and so there is still a risk of harm".

Incidentally, even a more adament disclaimer on the back on the ticket would be limited by the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977:

Section 2; “A person cannot by reference to any contract term or notice given to persons generally or to particular persons exclude or restrict his business liability for death or personal injury resulting from negligence”


So, they cannot totally exclude liability.

What I'm trying to say is, in none of these examples is there strict liability - the riding school as a business premises, or the race track would not be held responsible for every injury that occured, regardless of the efforts they'd gone to to prevent it. After all, it would be unresonable to have strict liability (which is pretty rare in tort law) for activities that will always involve a degree of risk no matter how careful you are. So contrary to what many in this thread seem to preceive about negligence laws - that is NOT how it works.


What there is, is a duty from the riding school/race track people to "take reasonable steps to prevent foreseeable harm". Which means, to do everything sensible to prevent harm coming to others. Obviously because horse riding etc are dangerous sports then this standard of care must be quite a high one. But the courts do realise that even with the most care possible taken, accidents will still happen. It is for this reason that cases go to court and it is considered whether the standard of care has been met and if not the establishment shall be found negligent and liable to pay compensation.

I hope that makes it a little more clear. *phew*

 

[emma69]

So just what I said then

 

[tiggersdad]

My local riding school liability insurance has risen from £300 to this year it is £3000 a ten fold increase over five years. They never have had a claim in 25 years. A nearby riding school had to close down because they could not get insured at all. Soon riding schools will be history. One riding school proprietor told me he had heard there are over 100 outstanding claims against riding schools of which six are believed to be genuine the rest are just chancers. By the way if we were experts on these subjects we wouldnt be voicing them here but charging a fortune for them.

 

[emma69]

As far as I know there is no central data base of claims against riding schools so I am not sure where he heard that information from. I don't claim to be an expert, I know a few things about claims and negligence, and have been involved with both making a claim (not riding) and providing evidence for a claim (which was riding). I also have trained in several areas of health and safety (performing risk assessments etc) and yes, I get paid for these duties forming part of my work role.

Yes, the cost of insurance has risen, your local riding school is incredibly lucky that it was only 300 pounds 5 years ago - ours was considerably higher than that 5 years ago. It's one of the costs that has to be taken into consideration and at a riding school that offered XC, SJing, Fast hacking etc was as essential to us as horse feed was. Our H&S record was very good, everything was documented if an accident happened (this is going back 15 years or more, before it was standard practice) and there were always first aid qualified staff on the yard (again, before it was standard)

 

[Tia]

I pay 4 grand a year for insurance and my business only really comes in during July and August and my horses are still covering themselves. If a riding school which has 12 month a year business cannot afford 3K then they have to be doing something seriously wrong.

 

[Mr_Ed]

Quote: A nearby riding school had to close down because they could not get insured at all.

If they cannot get any insurance they are "uninsurable". If that is the case it begs the question why?

 

[Puppy]

[ QUOTE ]
My local riding school liability insurance has risen from £300 to this year it is £3000 a ten fold increase over five years. They never have had a claim in 25 years. A nearby riding school had to close down because they could not get insured at all. Soon riding schools will be history. One riding school proprietor told me he had heard there are over 100 outstanding claims against riding schools of which six are believed to be genuine the rest are just chancers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said before, that may be the case, and a very sad fact, but it not a deciding factor as to whether or not a duty of care is owed, and the nature of that duty. Which I thought is the general discussion here. I would have thought insurance premiums were a whole other thread.

[ QUOTE ]
By the way if we were experts on these subjects we wouldnt be voicing them here but charging a fortune for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never claimed to be an expert. However, I have studied tort law and this is the mere basics of it - negligence may be a last resort tort, but it is the first subject we studied.

Incidentally though, my friend is an expert on the subject; a leading academic even. Not only does he lecture at Cambridge but also had written a sucessful textbook on this area of law and I do discuss threads like this with him....

 

[tiggersdad]

My point was that the "no win, no fee" legislation had caused huge increase in insurance premiums as the claim for £12,500 would previously not been viable as the costs could well have exceeded this if it went to court. The result is in huge numbers of riding schools closing down.
Regarding the increase of insurance premium there is a wide spread problem of liability insurance because no one wants to insure you. How do other high risk sports cope sky diving etc does any one know?

 

[Mr_Ed]

My point was that the "no win, no fee" legislation had caused huge increase in insurance premiums....

This was addressed in a previous thread..."Just recently, the Compensation Act has received Royal assent which seeks to clarify the law of negligence and regulate the "no-win -- no fee" lawyers

http://www.dca.gov.uk/legist/compensation.htm"

We shall have to wait to see if this helps. A leading insurer has confirmed that insurance premiums have now stabilised. Increased insurance premiums were not just due to "riding school" type claims but also due to the the current status of the Animals Act.

Regarding the increase of insurance premium there is a wide spread problem of liability insurance because no one wants to insure you.

This simply is not true. There are over 800 BHS and/or ABRS Approved riding schools all of which have the appropriate insurances. The SEIB is one of the brokers who insure riding schools. Of course as with any situation you may not get insurance if you can't demonstrate that you manage risk or have a poor claims history.

 

[flying_change]

"My point was that the "no win, no fee" legislation had caused huge increase in insurance premiums "

What legislation are you referring to ?

 

[tiggersdad]

The law was changed to allow lawyers to advertise and also offer this no win no fee offer. Previously you needed to pay legal fees and unless you were rich it was difficult. My solicitor charges £250 plus vat for twenty minutes advice! We are in the wrong work! The Animal Acts put absolute fault on the horse owner regardless of common sense. Locally two thirds of the riding schools have closed, Patchetts Green and Suzannes are famous ones who have closed their riding schools. Lets hope the change in law will help. I notice the £2,000,000 pay out in HH a few weeks ago says the the insurers no longer do it. I believe only the NFU and SEIB now do Riding Establishment insurance where not so long ago you could shop around now you cant. Does anyone know who else does it?

 

[evan]

People who do not know horses have to be classed as thick and complete liars when it comes to anything they say or do to do with horses(this is not meant to be personally nasty as you could have a brain surgeon turn up for their first riding lesson and I myself was deffinately at the end of the que when brains were given out)but people just tent to speak complete rubish as to there experience or limitations with horses.I used to work on a riding school and we used to treat every new client as a complete beginner until they actually met one of our horses.If they were able to face the right end when getting on and didn't scream or go white when the horse moved we knew we had half a chance.Clients were given the option of lead rope or get off if they returned we knew they were serious about learning if they did not we counted as another lucky escape for us.I had a break for 5 years after that to have my children and after buying my horse and choosing a livery yard I still think the same now one of these days someone is going to get seriously hurt or killed as they think they are more capable than they actually are but it is their choice just the same as anyone getting behind the wheel of a car or trying rock climbing as an adult you should be responsible for yourself or your children and instead of that man suing the riding school it should have been the riding school suing him for stress caused to the horse as the horse had no choice who got on its back

 

[sunflower]

First of all what a charming sweeping statement to class all people who do not have experience as thick and complete liars when it comes to horses

IME it is not the complete beginners who are the real 'problem' but those with limited riding experience (i.e. once sat on a donkey on the beach) who tend to over-exaggerate their skill / competence and cause the most problems when booking in for hacks etc but that is a different thread.

[ QUOTE ]
I still think the same now one of these days someone is going to get seriously hurt or killed as they think they are more capable than they actually are but it is their choice just the same as anyone getting behind the wheel of a car or trying rock climbing as an adult you should be responsible for yourself or your children and instead of that man suing the riding school it should have been the riding school suing him for stress caused to the horse as the horse had no choice who got on its back

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, accidents do happen, especially in high risk sports which is why the establishments that offer the opportunity to try them to complete beginners need to make it as safe as possible. I used to go climbing at an indoor centre and as beginners we were carefully supervised and had to wear harnesses which is the minimum I would expect. Yes there was still a chance of falling off the wall and still the risk that the person on the other end of the rope would let go / it would slip etc. We all knew it was a risk sport but the centre had done everything they could to avoid unnecessary risk. I don't think this is any different to expecting a riding centre taking out novices to use the safest (but not completely safe as obviously no horse is 100%) horses and restricting the pace to walk if that is all that the clients are capable of / comfortable with. The horse may not have had a choice in the matter but the riding school did. They have a choice in who they accept as clients, what horses they put their clients on and where they take them and what they do.

 

[Mr_Ed]

I hope that this isn’t out of context but sometimes an international comparison is useful.

The Dominion Post - Wellington, New Zealand reports that "extreme" sports injuries (including horse riding) are costing $12m a year.
See: http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/dominionpost/3900021a6479.html

An abstract from the quoted source - The New Zealand Medical Journal - in its study "Injuries to New Zealanders participating in adventure tourism and adventure sports: an analysis of Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) claims" concludes that codes of practice may be required supported by improved risk management practices.
See: http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/abstract.php?id=2359

 

[viola]

Definitely agree with Pixie, Emma69 and others with similar view. Three years ago I worked at stables where primary source of income were hacks in one of the most beautiful london parks (Richmond Park). We had many corporate clients, sometimes the groups were as big as 15 complete beginners going out together. We had a very strict set of rules and all first-timers were either on the lead rein or 'blocked' in between lead rein horses. There was at least 4 helpers out with instructors. We would have trotted and some more experienced people were even taken for canters but everything was almost over careful and the safety was an absolute priority. At least that has always been on my mind whenever working on public yards.

As all here acknowledged horses are big, unpredictable animals and instructors should take a personal responsibility for doing everything in their power to make the 'one off, corporate' ride as safe as possible.


Many of my stables' corporate clients never bothered with any additional rides BUT because they enjoyed the experience they brought their pony mad children to us for 'own a pony weeks' etc

I disegree with too much H&S, no bareback riding etc and that is why I teach freelance. However, I do think that a few first times on a horse is not there to check how many round the worlds you can do and how good your balance will be if I ask a horse to canter or how brave your face will look like after a fall. It's about creating love and passion for equestrianism.

I have been a witness of a couple of absolutely horrid accidents when taking rides out and 6 years ago on a New year ride one happened to my client. It was an accident, nobody sued anybody but now I know there were things I could have done to prevent it. Sometimes we horsey people seem to forget how much we know and take our reactions as natural and assume knowledge too often.

 

[Mr_Ed]

None of us want to see riding schools close. They are the entry point for many to the sport and the lifeblood of the industy. But I think we must be careful about jumping to conclusions about why they have closed unless we know the detail. I've ridden at both Patchetts Green and Suzannes when they were open for business.

Of course Patchetts hasn't closed altogether. Initally it set up as a high class livery yard - with coverage, if I remember coorectly, in Tatler or some similar magazine. It also now runs as a successful show centre with tack shop. It's possible that it's public liability insurance is even higher now given it's activities.

If you live in the area you may also remember Park Farm in Northwood. An establishment that had facilities second to none in the South East. It used to host the televised Everest Double Glazing showjumping classes. I rode there until it closed its doors in circa 1986. This was long before the sometimes irrational fear of civil litigation and spiralling insurance costs. So I'd suggest that we must be careful about making sweeping generalisations in tarring all closures with the same brush.

 

[flying_change]

Jeez, I've ridden at both Patchetts and Park Farm.

 

[tiggersdad]

The comments from the riding schools were quite clear in the H/H survey , litigation or the chance of litigation were the most important problem facing riding schools. The most important thing in most businesses are whether they can make a profit and riding schools are closing fast .
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/article.php?aid=91912&cid=397

 

[Mr_Ed]

The online feature is a cut down version of the printed feature which spanned Horse & Hound over two weeks and fails to list the "biggest concerns" sited which were:

• Insurance costs

• Fear of spurious litigation

• Business rates, VAT and absorbing ever increasing other costs

• Unlicensed riding schools/livery yards/individuals offering cut-price lessons

• Being undercut by lesson offering colleges, whose facilities may be state subsidised

• "Bad apple" approved centres that pay insufficient attention to health and safety and high-quality teaching, giving the industry a poor image

• Shortage of good staff -- college graduates often don't have sufficient practical skills. No funding for further training/education for valued staff

The British Horse Industry Confederation & Defra have identified all of the above problems and put forward solutions following public consultation in the document - Strategy for the Horse Industry in England and Wales (see: http://www.bhic.co.uk/downloads/full-strategy-report.pdf )

With respect to the first two concerns (those that have featured heavily in these threads); - insurance costs and fears of spurious litigation - the industry has been working hard towards achieving solutions. You can read the action already taken at http://www.bhic.co.uk/industry-strategy/aim3/actions.php?13

There's no doubting that there is tremendous pressure on riding schools and sadly many have closed. However, the industry is working very hard to ensure their sustainability and it's not all bad news. I know of one local riding school that despite all of the pressures and requirements isn’t just keeping in business but has seen a healthy expansion over the last year. There is no shortage of clientele for friendly well-run professional establishments where there is high-quality teaching, where safety is paramount and they have fun. This riding school certainly is making a profit. Long may the institution of the riding school remain! But there is no doubt whatsoever that it is going to need effort from everyone involved at every level to ensure that they do.