‘Pain face’

[BBP]

Based on these pictures, would you have any concerns about any of these faces showing pain? I’m trying to see if people pick up on what I see so have put a few of my two boys at different times. Thank you.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.

 

[stangs]

(Disclaimer: I’m on my phone so can’t see some of the subtleties too well. And then obvious disclaimer that you can only tell so much from a photo.)

8 doesn’t look great. Ears aren’t fixed back, but there’s some tension of the chewing muscles, a pronounced chin, and orbital tightening.

Hard to see facial tightening thanks to the colour of his coat, in 4, but again that pronounced chin, and ears fixed back too. Looks like the photo that would score the highest on the Grimace scale, which is concerning.

You’ve got the deep wrinkles above the eye in 9, but it’s possible that that’s from a history of stress. You’d have to compare that to the horse’s baseline to make a comment. Having said that, there’s definite tension above the eye area, and in the chewing muscles, so pain isn’t unlikely here either.

1 to me looks like a horse who’s focused on something, hence the lip isn’t completely loose and some orbital tension. But I wouldn’t be worried about pain in that photo.

 

[YoLaTango]

I know nothing about anything, but for some reason 4,8&9 look like pain to me.

 

[Cragrat]

2 looks tense about something - tight chin - not necessarily pain

 

[COldNag]

No expert but 4, 8 and 9 stand out for me.

Is that remotely any help?

 

[BBP]

Thank you all. It’s 8 and 9 that worry me as those are on 2 danilon a day. Picture 4 was on none. I had seen a huge improvement after a week on 2x a day with bright wide open eyes and full of mischief. I thought we would have a little more time together if he was happy, so it made me really sad today to see this tightness back again. He is stressed today as his pair bond is away for the weekend, so will see how he looks when she returns.

 

[BBP]

2 looks tense about something - tight chin - not necessarily pain

Good observation. He was alert but hopefully not in pain (although it’s only 9 months since he blew his tendon part). He has a very soft face with an easy floppy lip, whereas BBP has always had a tight pronounced chin and rarely lets it go floppy.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

8 and 9 aren’t giving me happy horse feelings. Sorry BBP, it’s so hard when they can’t talk.

 

[BBP]

8 and 9 aren’t giving me happy horse feelings. Sorry BBP, it’s so hard when they can’t talk.

I agree. I’m hoping it’s stress at his pair being away, as he’s such an emotional horse, and he will look better tonight. He was looking fantastic a couple of days ago and I was happy that we had at least a bit longer together. But if it’s pain rather than stress and it breaks through even two danilon then that’s different.

 

[BBP]

He came over whilst I was lying on a jump block the other day and just lay down right at my feet and went to sleep. Honestly I can’t comprehend the thought of life without him.

 

[Cragrat]

i don't know if horses have a huge inner life, though they definitely dream, but if someone took photos of my ugly mug at random times, there would be a range of expressions, and very few of them would be pain.

 

[ycbm]

I don't feel the photos are enough to allow me to make a judgement on horses I don't know. But I would say that many times in the past I have known that my horses were stressed or in pain because I knew them so well, while people around me said "s/he's fine! ". You know your horses inside out BBP. If you think they are stressed or in pain, then they are.
.

 

[Cragrat]

He came over whilst I was lying on a jump block the other day and just lay down right at my feet and went to sleep. Honestly I can’t comprehend the thought of life without him.

That shows a lovely, trusting bond

 

[ycbm]

To add, signs I would never ignore are, if they persist - raised blink rate, "fingers" visible in the cheek muscles, wrinkle at the nose and/or eyes, "tight" eyes.

 

[Sandstone1]

I notice tightness round muzzle in 2 tense in back in 6

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I don't know how people can really say much from snapshots. I'm pretty good at reading horses, and I'm not confident enough to make claims of certainty based off of these photos. If you know your horses, go with your gut.

I also think you can't really fairly access BBP at the moment, especially when he could just be stressed, confused, or distraught due to herd disruption.

Plus with these type of posts, sometimes people get to looking too hard and find signs that simply aren't there or aren't accurate. I mean, my former horse, on the right day, could be alarmed by a certain blade of grass blowing in the wind and look "alarmed" "uncomfortable" or "nervous" and then 10 seconds later look totally different. It's hard with photos sometimes.

However, I do see a horse every day who almost always has a wrinkle at his nose, tight eyes, a front leg pointed, stiffly drags himself around, grinds his teeth, and in general shouts "I'm uncomfortable " but if I photographed him at the right time, maybe it wouldn't be so apparent as it is in real life? I don't know.

 

[Bernster]

I’m also one who couldn’t pick out from those photos alone. I think knowing the horse and being around it in person would be more telling. Hope all ok x

 

[cauda equina]

I agree, for me it's more the whole demeanour rather than just the face, and knowing what the circumstances are at the time

 

[BBP]

I should probably clarify. I know BBP has pain. He has a life long history of issues (largely documented on here!) so I know his changes inside out and he is extremely expressive.

Recently he started having issues getting up again. I nearly had him PTS in 2020 for this, I had investigations done and it looked like he had chronic damage to hind suspensory, sacroiliac, and supraspinous and interspinous ligaments. We think linked to his hypermobility (perhaps like DSLD but he is only hypermobile in the hinds rather than showing the drop and straightening in the hind limb that is classic of the disease). He was retired in 2020 from ridden work, and we threw a bunch of things at him, massage, joint supplements, extra vitamin e as he is always deficient, in hand work, osteopathy etc. And he picked right up and was okay again.

More recently I have noticed a similar pattern, getting up looks like hard work again and he has pain face. We haven’t run a lot of investigations but vet suspects the back ligaments may be calcifying and tilting his pelvis so there is more stress and less strength behind. This is just a best guess. But it could also just be another minor strain as he had been doing a lot of rearing games with the baby horse. So may not be as dire as if they were calcifying.

He also has a sarcoid between his hind legs that has grown rapidly from a tiny bump when I found it in February to the size of a lime now. I can’t have it removed as the tissue around it is also ‘live’ sarcoid and so the wound would be massive, and would require general anaesthetic to get it all, which with his ligament issues he wouldn’t get up from. Luckily it hasn’t ulcerated yet but I’m counting the days.

So the vet and I agreed to do 2 weeks on 1 x danilon a day followed by a couple of weeks on 2 x a day if needed to see if we can get him looking happy and getting up well again. The 1x a day showed an improvement in his expression but I still wasn’t happy with his mobility getting up. So we have upped it to 2. In that period we are also going back to all the things that I had perhaps relaxed too much about, back on vitamin E, boswellia, ground work and physio exercises to see if we can get him back to normal again. I thought I was seeing great improvements so I was disappointed to see photo 8 yesterday and same this morning. But as he is so emotional I will give him a few days to see how he is once his mate is back. It could genuinely be stress.

I know I won’t have him much longer with the sarcoid etc.

Picture 1 is my ‘control’ image of him, always alert, bright eyes, tiny baby mouth. He is rarely a ‘soft’ horse.

The ones of the baby horse are the other ‘controls’, he has a lovely soft eye and mouth, can be wary (picture 2, being brave and touching the lunge whip) but generally a very relaxed face.

 

[cauda equina]

I'm so sorry BBP, I hope he can get back to where he was

 

[SEL]

He came over whilst I was lying on a jump block the other day and just lay down right at my feet and went to sleep. Honestly I can’t comprehend the thought of life without him.

10 days since I lost the horsey love of my life and the week in the run up to it we pumped him full of painkillers (vet said give him whatever because it doesn't matter). Paracetamol has a different action on pain sensors to Bute so might be worth speaking to your vet - some horses respond better to it than Bute.

It was when he was as high as a kite that I really realised how much tension he'd been carrying in those few weeks where he went downhill.

I'm keeping everything crossed that this is just a blip. BBP is a special boy xxx

 

[limestonelil]

With the caveats regarding photos other posters have described, I picked out 4,8 and 9. I thought resigned, rather than actual pain, but maybe previous pain has brought about the resignation iyswim. Sorry BBP, I know how attached you are to this lovely pony.

 

[BBP]

10 days since I lost the horsey love of my life and the week in the run up to it we pumped him full of painkillers (vet said give him whatever because it doesn't matter). Paracetamol has a different action on pain sensors to Bute so might be worth speaking to your vet - some horses respond better to it than Bute.

It was when he was as high as a kite that I really realised how much tension he'd been carrying in those few weeks where he went downhill.

I'm keeping everything crossed that this is just a blip. BBP is a special boy xxx

It’s so hard isn’t it. It’s like his soul and mine are tied together. It’s not something you can explain to someone who hasn’t felt that way.

Like you, I think seeing how bright he has been in the last week of being on danilon has made me realise how much worse he has been feeling than I thought.

 

[shortstuff99]

Has he always had the eye wrinkles? I don't want to confuse things too much, but you know ours share breeding and she has had wrinkly eye brows ever since birth (not related to pain).

 

[BBP]

Has he always had the eye wrinkles? I don't want to confuse things too much, but you know ours share breeding and she has had wrinkly eye brows ever since birth (not related to pain).

He has some, under the eye generally like a bit of a hollow, which does make it harder to tell (you can see it in photo 1 where he was on great form) so with him i look more at how open and bright his eyes are, if the eyelashes point down instead of out, and if he has a lot of wrinkles between his nostrils and mouth.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

It’s so hard isn’t it. It’s like his soul and mine are tied together. It’s not something you can explain to someone who hasn’t felt that way.

I have felt this way, with my Spanish horse. That is a real thing and I never imagined feeling anything like it.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

It’s like his soul and mine are tied together.

My sister had this with her dog. She said when she was put down age 17, it was as though a shutter came down. Took her months to consider another dog.

 

[BBP]

My sister had this with her dog. She said when she was put down age 17, it was as though a shutter came down. Took her months to consider another dog.

As much as it’s murdering my finances, I’m glad I bought the baby horse last year, I feel like I would lose all heart to be with horses if I had nothing waiting for me after BBP. Something in his advert photo told me he was the right one to help me keep going.

 

[BBP]

I have felt this way, with my Spanish horse. That is a real thing and I never imagined feeling anything like it.

I’m so sorry about your situation with your boy. I can’t imagine how you must feel.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I’m so sorry about your situation with your boy. I can’t imagine how you must feel.

I'm so very sad and feel like a piece of me has been ripped out and is missing.

I've always enjoyed your tales about BBP. He's one of my favorites. I love his character, even if he's bonkers

I actually just bought a baby horse ? gives me something to focus on and also a breather (he doesn't need much over the next 2 or so years as far as "work" goes). So I guess buying a baby to keep ourselves going, is definitely a thing ?