‘Scar tissue’ noted on vetting is actually recurring abscess?

lialls said:
Thank You, I have planned what I’m going to say when I call the vets tomorrow. They are usually very good so I’m really disappointed, a change in vets at the same practise might be enough to get some action though.
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I think you need to give them a chance to put this right, at no cost to you, they seem to be totally incompetent and possibly trying to cover their back by putting you off doing an op, the senior vet is your first point of contact now as the PM will probably just try to fob you off, they will not lose out as it is a clear case for their insurance to come into play if they need it but if I were you I would want them to refer to a bigger practice if the horse requires an operation or further investigation.

To suggest it is not worth the bother because the horse is of low value is going against their own code of conduct and this needs pointing out when you call, the value of the horse is irrelevant and down to the owner to decide if treatment is worthwhile not the vet, on humane grounds it needs treating which should be their only concern.
 
you need to speak to a equine solicitor.
I think the vet was in all likelihood negligent in advising you that the horse was fit to buy .
If this was my vet I would be upfront and say I expect you to fix this at your cost as the horse is not fit for purpose .
They are insured for this sort of thing .
 
That sounds awful. Sounds like the vet just believed what the sellers said and did not think of possibility of the lump being infected under the scab. Maybe 9/10 times there would be no problem and you were unlucky.

I think a good question to ask the vets possibly in writing now that they have examined the horse would be in their opinion was the lump actually scar tissue when the horse was vetted or did they make a mistake and it was something more serious? Explain to them that you were worried about the lump which was why you asked them to check it at vetting and had you known there was a risk that the lump could turn out to be so serious that the only way to resolve the situation was an operation you would not have bought the horse. Explain that the insurance won't pay out because they are questioning the vet's judgement of it being benign scar tissue at the vetting stage, therefore you would like to get compensation from the vets for this mistake. The sale value of the horse is irrelevant, you want the horse to be comfortable and not leaking pus. The snot could indicate a dental issue. Even if there is no pain and it not will not affect performance as you say the horse is not fit for purpose as you would not be able to take it to RC as they might think it had strangles.

The vets will be trying to avoid admitting liability because of their insurance probably has some clause in there about not saying it was their fault until the insurers had investigated the claim and made a decision. If there is a very limited choice of equine vets in the area they also won't be too worried about damage to their reputation and clients taking their business elsewhere.
 
I would be getting a second opinion (in writing) and expecting thorough dental exam and x-rays to be performed . I would be communicating with original vet - they have made a judgement on the lump without fuly investigating it at vetting, they could have x-rayed or biopsied then to confirm or offered the option to you to arrange this if you wanted to buy the horse.
I would not be asking them for further opinion on the horse as they are fobbing you off.
 
Amymay said:
Any update OP?
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I have sent an email to the vet so that it's all in writing asking how the are going to resolve the matter. I received an auto email back so i know that it's hit their system. I'll give them a call today to chase it up but don't really want to discuss it over the phone. Will keep you posted when I have an update.
 
Quick update. Following my email to the vets they have passed it over to their Professional Indemnity Insurers who will contact me directly, not sure how this works from now but hopefully they will make contact early this week And then I will know more. Thanks all for your advice, I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t over reacting or going down the wrong route. I will keep you posted on further updates.
 
That sounds like they're preparing for you to sue them, surely they need to treat the poor horse properly first. They'll probably now tell you they can't discuss it with you as it's in the hands of their insurers rather than working with you to solve the problem. Time to get another vet on board I think. Hopefully you will be able to claim the costs back from them.
 
annagain said:
That sounds like they're preparing for you to sue them, surely they need to treat the poor horse properly first. They'll probably now tell you they can't discuss it with you as it's in the hands of their insurers rather than working with you to solve the problem. Time to get another vet on board I think. Hopefully you will be able to claim the costs back from them.
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I tired to have a read up on it but can only find instances where you put in a claim against the vets - I guess this would be small claims court?

Discussed it with my mum and she seemed to think that the vet had admitted liability by saying that they had passed my email on to the insurance company, otherwise they would have argued it themselves.

I guess it will come down to the cost of the operation to fix the abscess vs the cost of the horse, they will pay pay which ever is cheaper.

I'm stabbing in the dark here, I have no idea how this works! I've not heard anything yet so i'll give the vets a call now, everyone is probably busy with CV19 and trying to figure out how to self isolate in amongst all the panic buying.
 
It is standard practise to pass on to their insurers as they will be expecting further action and a claim for damages from you, the insurers will not want it to go to court, nor will the vets, you will probably hear nothing until you put in your claim and the insurers will handle it all.

One of my liveries claimed against a vet, another that passed the vet but something important missed, horse would not have been bought, totally unrelated it became unwell and was pts while she was going through the claim, from memory she did rather well financially got the purchase price and money on top, it was settled with not too much hassle, some expert witness statements were required but it was a clear case so not much to argue about, the fact the horse died was not relevant as the evidence was already in place.

Before you take the next step get all your facts and figures sorted, over estimate everything as they will try to get it down so ensure there is wriggle room, you should really go for the whole lot, cost of horse you would not have bought, treatment of horse from the first visit until the issue is fixed, it should not be one or the other as you have a horse you cannot use, that may have an expensive op and still be unable to be ridden or sold on and may be an expensive pet to keep until you know the outcome of the case, if you ask for the whole lot they can pick your case apart but if you ask for too little you are going to be out of pocket one way or another and it will be too late to go for more.
 
Thanks be positive, this is really useful advise.

I have just spoken to the vets who said they would chase up the insurance company now and get their insurance lady in the office to call me tomorrow to explain the process.
 
I think you may need to get your own solicitor involved just to make sure they don't try to stitch you up with a lower offer than they should, see what they say but do not agree to anything until you have given it full consideration, they may try to get you to accept a 'generous' amount to go away quickly and quietly but their first offer will not be enough to cover all you and the horse have been through, play hardball they will be hoping your are a soft touch.
 
The Veterinary Defence Society have written to me to confirm how I would like to proceed and confirm how much I paid for the horse, the vet was aware that the horse was exhibiting behavioral issues as I had asked them if the lump and the behaviour could be linked so I have had to clarify the situation on that too. Have written back explaining what I'd like to happen now, they seem to be quite prompt so hopefully they will get on to it quickly and we can get the issue resolved. It doesn't look like plain sailing by the wording of their letter but hopefully they will see I'm not backing down about it. Will keep you posted
 
I think you will do ok and they will offer to settle with you out of court this is what happened in the only case I know like this .
you need to know what you want I think you need a full understanding of the cost and treatment the horse needs and what it’s likely to mean long term .
you need to work out a figure
the loss in the value of the horse
the cost of treatment
the loss you have suffered in terms of long term soundness
the loss of use of the horse while it’s being treated
the value of the nuisance to you having to deal with it all
the cost of keeping the horse while it’s off work being treated .

You will need to think this through and get a second opinion from a appropriately qualified vet about future use treatment and costs .

Dont rush to take the first offer until you know what the future costs are .

when they call let them know you are thinking through ALL your costs and losses .
 
Been going back and forth with the vets insurance company not really getting anywhere so I asked for a full break down as to what the hold up was. They said they are making enquiries and it can take up to 3 months as per their policy to conclude their enquiries.

The horse is currently comfortable but I don’t know for how long. I’m not sure if getting medical advice/treatment will muddy the waters. Feel like I need some legal advice, any recommendations?
 
The lump/abscess sounds similar to what my horse had. After weeks of draining and antibiotics we took him to the vets to be x rayed and he had actually fractured his jaw. He had to have a small op to remove the broken bone and scrape out the infection. After that he was fine.
 
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