1 year old dies after being attacked by a dog

But that isn't the purpose of Dog Licences. All a DL does is say that you have a dog under your ownership legally. Over here the restrictions are the amount of dogs you are allowed to own within the towns etc. There is nothing about what height, weight or size the dogs have to be.

A DL is simply a means of collecting a tax (for those who don't lose their dogs) or a means of contacting the owner if the dog becomes lost.

DL's do not vet people - on getting your licence no-one would ask any questions about the dog - they aren't interested.
 
I have a JRT who is the most difficult dog I have ever owned. I have owned and had friends that have owned large breeds and none of them are half the trouble of this JRT - who has to be regularly muzzled for other peoples' and dogs safety!!
 
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Puts on tin hat
I think Rotties should definately be banned along with other guard dog type breeds including GSD and Staffies
only the Armed forces and the Police should be allowed such dogs.
I also think dog licences should come in to force and people be forced to pass a test before they can own a dog of any discription.

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Wacks Tin Hat round your head
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What are you going on about??
Armed Forces and the Police??? Yes they can go to them but they will also train to attack people
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Because they have been trained to do so, however I have brought my rotti up to be a pet.. And thats what she is, she would never do anything to hurt anyone.

I think you should wake up love we are in the 2008 not 1958.
 
i have often muzzled my two not because they would bite anyone or anything but for the fact i dont trust other people not to lie and say they have bitten them which would not happen with one of them on so i do it for my peace of mind and my dogs safety.
 
(QR)
Firstly,it's tragic that a child has lost it's life to a dog attack
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Breed is NOT an issue,the childs death is.

Rottie's are the 11th most popular dog with 6,575 registered with the KC in 2006(along with god knows how many not reg).
How many have caused a death/serious injury since Jan 2006?
Surely if they were dangerous ALL of them would be attacking their owners at first chance....
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A handfull of attacks out of nearly 7,000 dogs isnt the problem the media would have people belive.
YES of course every death is tragic,but it is NOT reason to bann a breed.

As a child we had GSD's.All of them were free to a good home jobs with some serious issues.
They were muzzled outside of our house for safty of other people,but they never NEEDED it unlike the yorkie who would have the ankles off the world if he was given half a chance.I was 4 when first came,was never at risk from him because I was simply NEVER left alone with him.
Aunt had a dane that was a handfull to most people-he dropped like a stone when she told him to sit whatever was going on untill the day he died.
She is in her 50's with lupas,desperatly needs a hip transplante and could still controll a big dog because she had bothered to train him well.
 
Licencing dogs to stop the wrong sort of people owning dogs won't work.

The 'wrong sort of people' drive un-insured cars, sell drugs to kids or burgle houses, and we're swarming in people like that.

You can't make people carry their doggie licence with them every time the dog goes out. Yes, dogs could be chipped, and someone somewhere could have details of the registration and whether they've paid their fee for the year, but then who is going to police it? And who decides who are the wrong and right sort of people for that dog?

Again, to my mind, dog licencing, like horse passports is another stealth tax.
 
I think the point is that there is no such thing as a safe dog, regardless of breed or size.
All dogs should be properly controlled in public, and if I had children, I wouldn't let them be alone with any dog...
Those of you who say 'But my dog is a poppet' are not recognising the true nature of dogs, and are thus liable to take risks with other peoples' health and safety, which is irresponsible in my view.
I have to say that there is also no such thing as a safe horse or pony...either.
S
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Very sad but I'm sorry not all dogs are suited to different family set ups. I think if the Rotty gets branded here then it is a very sad state of affairs. the ownership of animals is not a right it is a privaledge and when this is understood in law then this and many other sorts of injustices may begin to end.
 
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I think every single dog should be muzzled in public, regardless of the size of it.

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I take your point here and think in principle it's good however my flatcoat is going to have a hell of a job collecting birds
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The only people who would buy a licence would be the ones who are also responsible enough to control and supervise their dog and to neuter it.

There are cases where guard breeds are appropriate - our livery yard is next to a badly managed (being generous) travellers site and the YOs rotties are absolutely the only thing that keep my horses safe.

We have a Border Terrier and a Doberman. Despite having the terrier from a pup and the Dobie only since 2yo rescue case, I would absolutely rather put my hand in his mouth than hers. I can take food off him no problem, she would resist. The vet muzzles the terrier to do nasty things but does equally and more painful things to him with no thought of a muzzle or any other control. If his teeth graze your hand while you're playing tug he is completely horrified and drops the whole toy and looks miserable. And hes a rubbish guard dog, unless you count sticking your snout in the visitor's crotch area a deterrent (mmm might work that) or smacking them in the face with your Dobiefulltail.

Owners do need to be careful and realistic about dogs especially when they get them with an unknown history and especially around children. Rotties etc arent the best breeds to choose if there are little ones around, but banning/licensing isnt the answer, just as passports for horses didnt work and the Dangerous Dogs act didnt work.

I dont think we can outlaw risk by legislation and Im not sure Id want to live in a world where it was....
 
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I think every single dog should be muzzled in public, regardless of the size of it.

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I take your point here and think in principle it's good however my flatcoat is going to have a hell of a job collecting birds
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Ah but presumably your retriever is working on private land? I wouldn't advocate it to become mandatory on private land, just on public land/streets/towns etc.
 
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Those of you who say 'But my dog is a poppet' are not recognising the true nature of dogs, and are thus liable to take risks with other peoples' health and safety, which is irresponsible in my view.


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I completely agree with your comments above. I think it never pays to become blase about what dogs will or won't do. I am always very aware of what 2 of my dogs could be capable of; given the way in which they are being brought up means that the risks of them doing something horrendous is fairly slim, but I am still aware of this so I keep a close eye on what goes on.
 

Ah but presumably your retriever is working on private land? I wouldn't advocate it to become mandatory on private land, just on public land/streets/towns etc.

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Ah back at you if that passes they'll be a duty of care in other words such a rule will echo into far reaching corners. Besides I personally don't want my dog wearing a muzzle.

Infact I'm going to say it because we're all thinking it but nobody will dip their toe in the water so I'll dive in. All these tragic accident involving dogs always seem to happen in the scum section of our society, the lower intellects who can barely dress themselves. For the love of God look at the make up of this family are any of you surprised, TBH I'm not what I find unpaletable is that we blame the animal rather than society who allows the excessive unregulated breeding of animals, the unregulated ownership, the inadequate means to monitor welfare of the animals and the lack of education regarding dog ownership is it a wonder a dog who lived outside ate the 1 year old?
 
i can see where you come from but with these sorts of people you would be protecting yourself and your dog by muzzling in public, its horrible that thats what you have to do these days but i would rather that than somebody accuse my dog of biting them and something terrible happen to them.my rottie is a rescue and we no nothing of his past but i no he is fantastic with my boy and as a guard dog(yes they are always supervised) but i shut them away if another young child comes round as i do not want a young child provoking him to snap again for my dogs protection.
 
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Infact I'm going to say it because we're all thinking it

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Nope- we're NOT all thinking that. That's just YOUR personal bigotry- don't ascribe any of it to me, thankyou.

Incompetence with dogs, like the love of dogs, spans society. And you find pillocks in all walks of life.
 
Excuse the generalization then however, if the media bias is used I think the 4 examples used exasperate my claim...you can't keep a dog in a 4x5 back yard if you think about it it's almost like keeping a bird caged...plain wrong
 
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I think the 4 examples used exasperate my claim...

[/ QUOTE ] I don't understand what you are saying there, do you have the correct word? To exasperate is to 'greatly annoy'
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Exasperate

To increase the gravity or intensity of

There is more than one way to use the word.
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[/ QUOTE ]fair enough!
 
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As far as I can see, no one needs a rottie. Any dog has the potential to turn on a human, no matter how well trained and kept. It is arrogant to think otherwise. At least with other sorts of dogs the human will stand half a chance of fighting the dog off.

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I gotta say I tend to agree with this sentiment, why does anyone need any dog that would outweigh a small pony and by that I mean mastiffs and the like? Would we bother with horses if they had 42 very sharp teeth? I doubt it.

It just beats me that it's against the law to wire your property to the mains and electrocute intruders or carry a machette in public yet it's perfectly ok to walk the streets with a potential killer on the end of a lead or more often than not, off it!
 
Exasperate- to increase the gravity or intensity of?

Going to be pedantic here and say - not in this sense. A problem is exasperated- a claim wouldn't be, except possibly in the sense of being made untenable
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I know what the Poster meams, but can't think of the word myself...

However, I think this is the media thing again, isn't it; just as the papers like their killer dogs to be rotties, so they like the owners to be working class with lots of kids, preferably absent at the time of the attack and if a sozzled granny or a teenager is left in charge, so much the better; you can really stir that up into a nice piece of "news". Anything else just aint worth reporting- oh, unless its Royalty, & Princess Anne's bull terriers have bitten someone in a public place again.....

Actually in the last dog incident I experienced personally, the dog concerned was a large stock-worrying lab owned by an accountant. It wasn't penned in the back garden though, but let loose, repeatedly and seemingly deliberately, during the foot & mouth crisis (the dog warden couldn't go after it because of this) to roam the countryside.
The family was actually very pleasant, but witless re. their dog.
 
When will people learn to stop blaming the dog. It is the adults that own them that put or leave them in this situation.

30yrs ago my Uncle had a Corgie that loved my brother when he was a baby, unfortunetly we think he came from a bad breeder & was inbred. use to have fits.
My uncle was terrified that when the dog had a fit it would attack my bro with not knowing what it was doing so he had it distroyed.
NOW THERE is a resposible dog owner. It wasn't destroyed because he was ever left alone woith a baby but that he could fit so quickly that if you were at the other side of the room so much damage could be done before getting there.

I have know 4 rotties owned by the same family one after they other that they lost through illness & they were the most softest dogs I met & use to go & play with when I was young (5-10 yrs old) The owners were always present aswell.
 
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I really do feel for the family and that poor child
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I blame the owners - I have a Rotti and she would never harm anything.

At the end of the day a Jack Russell could attack if you bring them up to be a gaurd dog.

This is my Rotti - how could anyone say such things about them
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But ANY dog could kill a child - that's just the point!

Your dog looks lovely - so do mine. I have a pointer and a lakeland terrier - cute as could be.

I would trust the pointer about 99% with any situation and guarantee she wouldn't harm anything/one, the lakie would probably only get 75%.

HOWEVER - that 1% of doubt I have even with the pointer is what reminds me that these are dogs, and that children are more important. I would never, ever leave any dog, howveer much I trusted it, with a child.

Yes, your dog is lovely looking - and I'm sure it has a fantastic temperament, but we must never forget that they can - and sometimes do - kill.

Huge sympathy and hugs to the family......esp the 16 yr old who was 'in charge' at the time.
 
TBH I find this thread a little odd and disturbing. One incident and people want to ban dogs they know nothing about. Most animals over a certain height or weight can kill if the circumstances are right. Its not an old wives tale to put sleeping nets over babies cots if there's a cat in the house as was already very well pointed out. A cat would also be perfectly capable of inflicting severe damage with its claws if it had a mind to, and with these new big breeds of domestic/wild cat crosses coming into the country a determined one would scare me a whole lot more than a big dog. Cats are also very adept at removing the eyes of puppies and if not supervised toddlers. Cats aside as I don't want them banned, this is tragic but, like the quad bike accident its life. People die. We will all die. Many deaths are prevetable and caused by negligance but no more or more less tragic. I am sure more young children die per year from not having the smoke detector batteries in their house checked than they do being bitten by a dog. Or in RTA's - we could all walk you know. So why ban a breed of dog when children die far more frequently through acts or omisions of parents.

It wasn't the dogs fault - it was the handlers. I am very sorry for what happened to the child, but you know, if this had been a lab in a nice middle class family it would't have been all over the news and there would be no calls for labs to be banned either. Its the media yet again rubbing their hands together for a good story and getting the more gullible in society wound up, And if we REALLY, REALLY wanted to protect children we'd cull all male humans before puberty only keep frozen semen and a few caged men for our pleasure. Not many women go out starting wars or are guilty of rape. Some men do though - they are big and strong animals. I've never heard of dogs raping and torturing kids but sadly a very, very small minority of men have a habit of it - in the same way a very, very small minority of dogs bite. And in both cases what do you bet they both had a bad start in life and not the care and education they needed to be good members of society. I like rotties, men and cats and don't want any of them banned. What I would like is better education and care for all.

I know I'll be slated for the man comparison but I have never been bitten by a dog but I have almost lost my life to a large, powerful man. For me and many others the fear and danger from a bad man is far more real than the fear and danger of a bad rottie
 
Just want to add plese don't think me unsympathetic, sadistic or heartless - this poor little chap deserved a long and happy life. But over-reacting won't bring him or the little girl on the quad back. Everyone is entitled to their views, but I don't want my freedom to own the aniamls I like restricted. Anyone who has lived in London will tell you that pit bulls are ten a penny in the east end. None are ever muzzled. No-one cares and a ban had no effct whatsoever. Also, as a lone female who admittedly is pretty fearful of men, I liked having a big dog like a rottie as it gets dark at 4pm in winter. With a more imposeing dog I felt safe going form a walk. Dog obedience/agility is not on every night for exercise purposes and not everyone has the luxury of living in a nice safe area. ok so a man can pull a gun or knife and a rottie who isn;t trained would be unlikely to attack as it wouldn't know the threat (although it may recognise body language and be on guard). But the perception is there so for a lone female walking a dog after dark a sweet, gentle rottie is a good deterrent due to media hype and perception so why shouldn't I have my sweet gebtle dog if you can have your lab?
 
At the end of the day, regardless of what breed it is, a dog is an animal, and just like a horse! it is unpredictable. Your dog could be as soft as grease 100% of the time but anyone with a single ounce of common sense would know not to leave a child, or at least a very young one, on it's own with said dog. You're asking for trouble. There's only so much ear/tail pulling and eye poking any dog will tolerate. Not saying that is what happened but it's a good example.

And just to put the record straight, Rotties aren't by nature nasty. They were bred as working dogs with natural guarding instict BUT is NOT vicious by nature. My Jack Russell and Wire Viz's have guarding instinct - doesn't mean they're going to pull people to shreds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Same as Mastiffs, bred to oringinally to guard and help gamekeepers, but no where in it's breed history/breed standard does it call for viciousness! Infact the opposite, it says "Devoted to his 'family' " and "bred to give the appearance of a formidable guard dog" not "it has sharp teeth it's a man eater! And the GSD wasn't bred to attack either, it was bred to herd and protect flock and even during the war or now in the police they have to be of an even temper! Actually they're trackers. Then there's the Dobermann - also a tracker not a killer and "fits into the family well, playing with children". Just one more; Staffies: ok not always good with other dogs but is described as being "kindness itself" with people.

SO there you go it's just bad press, which is all the media is good for and extremly stupid people going out and buying a dog without a flaming clue as to how to keep the poor creatures that are the ones who are going to suffer in the end.

I'll get down from my soap box now! And please don't rant at me, this is just my opinions and not aimed at any body in particular!

Edited: To say I just thought I'd better add that my info came from "The Kennel Club's Illustrated Breed Standards" just so that you know it's not a load of waffle I've made up!
 
Went away last night and missed the rest of the thread! Tia, I can see your point entirely, I think my view of how dog licenses could work is somewhat based on a eutopian society, which of course we dont have!

I have to echo what breeze has said and say all to often it does seem to happen to these type of people. Why? Thats a question that Im sure has a thousand answers, money, upbringing, surroundings etc. If they had more money maybe they'd have hired a competant baby sitter, if they had had a better upbringing maybe the dog would hae been trained better, if they had been surrounded with knowledgeable people maybe the dog would have had a chance of being a normal doggy citizen...

Also, we dont know the facts of the 'attack' I dont know exactly how big a 1YO is but is there a chance that the dog was being over exuberant and killed the kiddy? Perhaps he was playing and was too rough with the child. We dont know if the baby was dropped perhaps by the child and that caused and injury that started the dog off (my mum always told me that if a dog gets a taste of blood then it can easily revert to instinct...??) All these ideas are completely random but if we are to demonise the dog, perhaps we should think a little outside of the box - as Im sure a lot of us are just seeing the baby wrenched from the childs arms and mauled to death - but that might not be what happened.

There's only one killer in this situation and thats ignorance. And thats something you cant attribute to the dog.
 
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