1 year old dies after being attacked by a dog

Yes it most certainly does apply to horses as well! I'm fully aware that horses can be dangerous animals and because of that fact I always make sure that if I have anyone with me who is non horsey that they are safe at all times because they are unpredictable!
I don't like the fact that people on here appear to prejudice because they own dogs. I'm not prejudiced against dangerous horses and lowering the risks with horses just because I own one and work with them?
If my horse is out in public (eg a competition, out hacking) I always have him in a bridle for maximum control and keep a strict eye on the goings on, particularly with children.
And I would be the same if I had a dog (which i'm hoping to in the future).
 
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Having just read a piece, regarding this in the paper, where it tells of how the seven year old took the baby out side to pet the dog.

Now, lets look at this from a dogs point of view. How often do we, as owners, take over treats and toys to our dogs? We even sometimes laugh when the dogs start shaking the teddies whilst playing...

That dog wouldn't have know the difference between a baby and a toy. The child would have come towards it with a "thing" in its hand.

Dogs, or the family pets that I know, do not just attack, to kill, for the sake of it. The baby died from it's injuries in the hospital but if the rottie was intentionally trying to kill the baby, it would have been dead along time before that.
 
That was exactly my take on the situation. The dog made a mistake but it was such a big mistake that it cost the dog it's life and the childs.
 
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QR

Having just read a piece, regarding this in the paper, where it tells of how the seven year old took the baby out side to pet the dog.

Now, lets look at this from a dogs point of view. How often do we, as owners, take over treats and toys to our dogs? We even sometimes laugh when the dogs start shaking the teddies whilst playing...

That dog wouldn't have know the difference between a baby and a toy. The child would have come towards it with a "thing" in its hand.

Dogs, or the family pets that I know, do not just attack, to kill, for the sake of it. The baby died from it's injuries in the hospital but if the rottie was intentionally trying to kill the baby, it would have been dead along time before that.

[/ QUOTE ] Most, if not all, animals know the difference between an inaminate object and the young of another animal (even of another species). Dogs certainly know the difference. Its hard wired into most, if not all, animal species!
 
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I disagree. A toy is a toy, to a dog, whether it is inanimate or movable.

[/ QUOTE ] Its a bloody miracle that they can survive in the wild then! How stupid do you think dogs are?
 
I would also disagree with Stella, sorry Stella.

Just watching my 4 week old puppies has given me an insight into something which I found fascinating. They have just been introduced to my cats and my other dogs. Not one of the pups paid any attention whatsoever to the cats - it was almost as if they were not there. The dogs, on the other hand, proved totally intriguing to the puppies and they seek them out.

We all know that dogs do not accept small children as anything as other than an object of absolutely no consequence, which is why there are often accidents like this with very small children.
 
But adult dogs tend not to show any interest in another bitch's puppies either. Little interest is shown in the young of others unless something unusual brings the young to their attention!
 
Hmm I'm not so sure about that. Most dogs will show an interest in pups whether they be their own or another bitches; it's all part and parcel of the pack mentality where dogs do share the upbringing of one anothers pups.
 
But GI, what I'm saying is that several years ago (I'm sure Millbrooksong will remember this) a horse got loose at a local show and killed a young girl, people didn't cry out for a ban on horses being tied up at shows. So why try to ban a certain breed or enforce a muzzling law? In some cases muzzling a dog can actually make it aggressive because it can feel threatened and vunerable.
 
Blimey thats awful!!! How did the horse kill the girl?? I think the main difference between horses and dogs though is that dogs are carnivores and at the end of the day they're natural instinct (however many generations ago and with however much training) is to use their teeth to eat live animals. Very unlike a horse. A horse kills by kicking - unfortunate but accidental (although not always) but i can't imagine a horse jumping on someone and ripping them to shreds with their teeth :-S (Extreme image i know).

Muzzles may be extreme but if there is no other way to control your dog? I know good dog handlers have their dogs well trained but I remember very well being chased down the railway line by a god while I was on Rocky and no matter how much the owner called it back it wouldn't come - only left Rock alone after a few swift kicks (he didnt come into contact with the dog but it gave it something to think about).
 
Perhaps it was just your dogs and not necessarily the breed? Most bitches (regardless of breed) will foster another bitch's pups if she has enough milk, and most bitches will help raise these pups.
 
I can't see that this is relevant. Horses and dogs are nothing like each other - they are at the opposite end of the Animal Kingdon spectrum to be honest.
 
So on the basis of that one dog all dogs should be punished? Sorry no deal. That owner is again one of the ones in the minority.
As for instinct, my lab is horrified at the thought of eating a mouse/rat, the terrier yes, she chases and kills them through instinct but two of the three big dogs wouldn't dream of trying to catch something live, they just dont/
One of the other big dogs did do a chicken, a clunk on the head and he hasn't since, but they all know people are in charge, and it's not like they are particularly trained. I know very very few dogs I would class as having to be wary (one of ours, snaps in defence) around, most are happy friendly dogs that provided handled sensibly are no problem
 
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So on the basis of that one dog all dogs should be punished?

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Ahh now I understand your disdain. You are placing human values on a dogs mind. Okay so yes I agree if you think that dogs think in the same way as humans, then you could definitely see it as a punishment for them to wear a muzzle. Collars and leads are presumably fine because they are viewed as clothes?
 
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Muzzles may be extreme but if there is no other way to control your dog?

[/ QUOTE ] But that doesn't justify a blanket muzzling of all dogs, does it? I used to own an unpredictable rescue dog, and I always used to muzzle him when out in public, so I'm not adverse to muzzling when there is a need. However, the dog I have now is totally different and I wouldn't want to have to muzzle her. She has good recall, and has never shown aggression towards other dogs or humans. If she did, she would be muzzled.

I do sympathise with the dog chasing problem though, as I have had encounters with horse-chasing dogs in our local woods. However, I can't see that compulsory muzzling would prevent those incidents, as the animals can still give chase when muzzled!
 
lol, from my experience all I can say is ours hate muzzles/haltis/anything around their noses but are quite happy with collars.
Technically I suppose if they wore them as pups it would be supposedly fine but I still do not see the need.
 
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lol, from my experience all I can say is ours hate muzzles/haltis/anything around their noses but are quite happy with collars.

[/ QUOTE ] I know the dog I had to muzzle really didn't like his although he learnt to put up with it. It is also an art to fit them properly so they allow a dog to pant if they have been running fast, but not so loose that they can come off or get caught in things. Whilst muzzling was appropriate for the dog in question, I really wouldn't want to be forced into putting one on my current dog by law, particularly as I don't feel it would do much to prevent the dog mauling tragedies that often happen in private homes and gardens.
 
I think it had got a stake or hurdle wrapped around its leadrope or something and hit the girl. Very sad.

I agree re. carnivores but flight animals can be just as dangerous because through fear they don't necessarily *think*. A guy at our hunt was collecting money and a horse struck out at him and knocked him to the ground, he couldn't breathe properly for half an hour and he's very lucky it didn't kill him like the poor man in the above thread. My sisters horse picked my mum up once by his teeth and threw her 6ft. Horses and dogs are equally as dangerous but the difference to me is that horses are an unpredictable animal whereas with the dogs it is mainly incompetence.

Re the Rocky incident would it not be better to create a law stating that all dogs must be kept on leads when in public areas but exclude enclosed dog parks e.t.c. If the dog had been muzzled then he would still have been capable of chasing you and Rocky, fair enough he couldn't harm R but he could cause R to bolt would could injure the pair of you and possibly others too.
 
Gosh .. what a long thread.

TBH it sounds like a terrible accident, a product of bad situations and events.

Muzzling in public .. ummmm .. thats fine as the good well behaved peeps would tow the line and muzzle - necessary or not ... but since the deaths are due to bad handling/breeding do you think this 'element' of dog owners would also tow the line???
 
Actually Severn I think that is a very sensible suggestion! Possibly one which would be more happily entertained by dog owners as well? Definately better than my muzzling suggestion I think!
 
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I can't see that this is relevant. Horses and dogs are nothing like each other - they are at the opposite end of the Animal Kingdon spectrum to be honest.

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End of the day Tia both can kill. I expect a level playing field and what applies to one potential killer should apply to the other.

You wouldn't hobble your horse in public to prevent him from kicking so I fail to see why I should muzzle my dogs who apart from the GSD (who doesn't ever leave our property) have not ever shown aggression. Remember the APBT who killed the girl last NYE had shown aggression on many occasions previously.
 
I seriously think that the media cause a lot of trouble too. Just been reading the Mail on Sunday and it contradicts itself. It says in one column: the dog belonged to his grandmother and was a 2yr old bitch, was a pet and often played with the children, that it had NEVER shown signs of agression - or words to that effect. Then it says: the dog was bought after the grandmother's house was broken into, was normally chained to the fence and was described as nasty. The neighbour wasn't much better, saying that it was a vicious looking dog and was up to his waist - now either he is very short or this Rottie had been given stilts, they're not big dogs at all.

Any way, I think all this post is doing now is making people cross.
 
Echo, love the first 3 pics in your siggy...made me smile
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The big difference between horses & dogs IMO is that we take dogs into our homes in a way that is impractical with horses. We live far closer to dogs than horses, and they are in contact with us when we are off-guard, relaxed, in company with others who are not used to them, etc.

Many people treat their dogs as honorary humans. Not many people would think its OK to let a horse run "off the halter" down a public street or across someone else's field: far from it; yet this is commonplace with dogs. So you can generally avoid horses if you want to; but you can't avoid dogs.

I suspect that neither horses nor dogs are actually unpredictable in themselves; they do what they do for a reason; it is WE who don't always understand THEM. But I think with dogs the problem is compounded by the amount of trust that people put in them, and the way that they are seen as honorary humans and their carnivorous and territorial instincts are forgotten.

One thing that surprised me with our dog is the way in which she is continually pushing, pushing for control. I have to be very strict with her, and I feel like a tyrant at times; I never felt this to this extent with a horse, where you seem to reach a sort of agreement as to who is boss. Is this normally the case with dogs? Do you always have to be asserting your authority?

I have also seen dogs which are obedient with one person or with that person's teenage children in her presence, act quite differently and ignore the children when she wasn't there. So there is scope for the pack dynamic to change and for control to shift from humans to dogs.
 
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