1 year old dog testing me!!

[ecrozier]

Interesting responses. Op, does the dog know the meaning of the word 'no'? My parents have a 1 year old pointer, and while she isn't ever aggressive, she drives me round the bend as she does exactly what she likes, when she likes. I will use my best 'don't you dare even think about it' tone of voice which has my adult rottie backing away at a rate of knots from whatever he was doing and works already on my 4 month old puppy, and my 17hh horse tbh, but she just carries right on with what she is doing! I think what is important is installing the understanding that there WILL be repercussions if he ignores you. Whether that be time out, a smack, a raised voice, being tied up, whatever, that's a matter of personal preference probably. But if your mum's dog is anything like my mum's, that is the missing link!! She also will turn around and mouth at you if you grab her collar, and is very snappy in play with other dogs, both it which I would be actively correcting if she were mine (ie she'd get sharply told off if her mouth headed in direction of my hand when holding her collar, and any play with other dogs which got too 'snappy' would end, instantly). But sometimes it is hard when a) the dog has got away with it for a while and b) you aren't there 24/7 to see what goes on!!

 

[Smith123]

Interesting responses. Op, does the dog know the meaning of the word 'no'? My parents have a 1 year old pointer, and while she isn't ever aggressive, she drives me round the bend as she does exactly what she likes, when she likes. I will use my best 'don't you dare even think about it' tone of voice which has my adult rottie backing away at a rate of knots from whatever he was doing and works already on my 4 month old puppy, and my 17hh horse tbh, but she just carries right on with what she is doing! I think what is important is installing the understanding that there WILL be repercussions if he ignores you. Whether that be time out, a smack, a raised voice, being tied up, whatever, that's a matter of personal preference probably. But if your mum's dog is anything like my mum's, that is the missing link!! She also will turn around and mouth at you if you grab her collar, and is very snappy in play with other dogs, both it which I would be actively correcting if she were mine (ie she'd get sharply told off if her mouth headed in direction of my hand when holding her collar, and any play with other dogs which got too 'snappy' would end, instantly). But sometimes it is hard when a) the dog has got away with it for a while and b) you aren't there 24/7 to see what goes on!!

She sounds identical!!

 

[Smith123]

Wow, ALOT of contrasting advice!

Here's my view anyway.

Presumably, as AmyMay has said, you probably did get the wrong dog. People assume dals are for everyone, they're not! It sounds as though he got away with alot of a puppy, and now he is bigger, stronger and has the mentality of a teenager you have even more to contend with.

Regardless, it doesn't mean you can't work with it.

Your dog is snapping at you because something has happened when you've gone to grab him that isn't nice to him - it could be a reprimand/man-handling/whatever. You backing off has just reinforced his behaviour, so he's now learning that a snap will get you to go away.
How do you change it? Firstly, I wouldn't be hitting the dog. If you reprimand a snap, what's the next behaviour in line? It's a bite. Your dog is telling you it's unhappy about something. Giving it a whack around the face isn't going to teach him that your hands reaching down to him is okay, is it? Please don't do this. It's all very well people sitting on a forum dishing out such advice, but physical correction needs to be sharp and accurate if it to be in any way effective - but my physical strength VS a dogs teeth isn't a battle I choose to get involved with.

Someone suggest a long line - I think this would be a good idea for you. It means that you can move/get to your dog without reaching down for its collar which it now obvs has issues with. It is also good for the time-outs, when he starts getting wound-up, pick up the line - walk him away and shut him out. NO eye/verbal/physical contact. He may chew/piss around on the end of the line but this can just be ignored.

Also think he might need stuff to do. Just because he is at the yard all day doesn't mean it's constant exercise, and I can imagine all his annoying behaviours that you think he has are, to him, great fun because he's managed to occupy himself.... and then gets a load of attention from everyone (even if it is negative)!

I hope it goes well with the trainer!

Thank you, a very helpfull answer

 

[Spudlet]

No responsible trainer would give some of the advice you've been getting here without at the very least seeing you and your dog in person, OP. In fact, most of the membership and accreditation schemes for trainers (which are many and varied in their approach) would consider it extremely inappropriate for any professional instructor to be dishing out advice on an issue like this before seeing and assessing the dog and handler.

The best thing you can do is to see a trainer, so it's great you are doing this. The one bit of advice I'll give you is to ask as many questions as you can - most importantly of all, 'why?', to make sure they and you both know why they are telling you to do whatever it is they are telling you to do. Good luck, and I hope it goes well.

 

[ecrozier]

Smith123 - possibly in a way a similar situation of inappropriate breed matches to owners as well in both cases?! Certainly various gun dog people I know would say pointers are one of the trickier of that group and really my parents ought to have gone for something smaller/lower energy, but they had a pointer before (who was also fairly unruly but was part of a busy household with teenagers etc when younger and then was much quieter in her dotage (unsurprisingly, she was 14 when she passed away!).
But, too late for hindsight really. Does your mum appreciate there is a problem? That's what I am battling with at the moment!! I had hoped that seeing my pup who is almost a year younger but will stop/drop whatever he is doing at te mention of the word 'no' might make it sink in that discipline a bit lacking, but doesn't seem to have made any difference!

 

[CAYLA]

I agree with a bit of everyones thinking but I also agree (trainer) why? because (don't mean to be patronising) the issue is very easy to solve, it's (humans) that need detailed instruction and (demonstration)......I always say "bring yourself and the dog to me and I will show you how I would deal with the issue and we will then take it from there!! would I deal with it differently if say you handed the dog to me (yes) and I would solve the issue quick, however working with you/any other owner I would work with how best I believe the OWNER can carry out instruction and their capability of handling said dog and to follow instruction (which is basically where it all goes to pot) (hard to explain) but different people have different ability as to how to deal with an issue and how quick they solve it.
My tool is my voice and my own body language and my ability to enforce (structure) from the get go and the teach and allow a dog to learn the rules and boundaries, what I will and wont accept (they get it quick) it also makes a huge difference when you deal with a mass variety of behaviour/breeds, and understanding your breed as suggested is (VERY) important but can't be used as an excuse for poor handling/bad behaviour in majority of bad behaviours
Use a slip lead when you need to safely get hold of the dog to stop you being bitten, don't stop handling him just take safety precautions, with the issue you are having I would not advise you what to do without seeing (mainly you/your parents) interact with the dog, nothing at all to do with the dog I can picture him and his behaviour in my head very clearly (but would be more interested as to your own handling of the dog and the situations) dalmations are willful, high energy breeds and they certainly need firm consistant handling aswell as positive reward it's true enough, funnily enough Im working with one right now, a bouncy naughty bitch with NO manners/no training, onto her 4th home! to me she is normal and easy but to others (because they make a rod for their bad with her) she is proving to be hard work (her owner yesterday said, he though I was like Victoria Stillwell) I take offence at that to be honest, but it's by the by

 

[CorvusCorax]

Apologies if others have said it but Stargirl has explained it - the dog is doing something in order to get you to stop what you are doing. And you stop doing it.
The dog has trained you to leave it alone to get on with what it wants to be doing. I'd take that kind of thinking, and work your way backwards to a solution.

Good that she is going to see a trainer, but as others, use your voice, your physical presence, your hand, isolate her, give the dog a purpose, whatever works, but I would not be ignoring it.

 

[Dexter]

He also talked about how we must take into account breed traits, if a dog is bred to run and you dont give it enough exercise, it will seek an outlet for that frustration in another way ( chewing, stealing things etc).

Thats very true! I have a very wilful and high energy 18month old whippet. I was his 4th home by the time he was 3 months old because he was an utter nightmare! For the first 6 months I think he reduced me to tears at least once every single day! If I could have rehomed him with a clear conscience I would have done. Because I couldnt I carried on. Separation anxiety, stealing, destroying things, culminating when he was 10months old with him jumping up and biting my arm when he was "playing" for which he got a very hard and instantaneous wallop! I then got some brilliant advice from a trainer and changed everything about how I dealt with him.

Hes bred to work and bred to run, so thats what I do. I run him, and run him hard every single day. 5 miles most days, 10 miles 2 or 3 times a week. Usually in the woods, up the hills and across the moors. A different walk EVERY single day. I have about 30 walks I alternate. We go to the beach, out on the bus/train, I race him, I have him chase balls and do training sessions to keep his brain working. Different things all the time.

Every thing I do is about making him want to do the right thing. He doesnt respond to harsh treatment and just shuts down. It once took my friend who dog sat for me nearly 2 hours to catch him because he shouted at him instead of calling him nicely

I also rescued an older bitch who regularly puts him back in his place much better than I ever could.

He will never be an easy dog, but hes a manageable dog now. So long as I manage him properly that is And he is genuinely the dog of a lifetime for me. I love the very bones of him and I'm just sorry it took me 6 months to get my act together!

Sometimes people end up with the wrong dog and its either make each other miserable, rehome the dog, or the owner needs to change their lifestyle so its suitable for the dog. I chose the latter and I will never regret it

 

[Goldenstar]

If one of mine gets rude I wrestle it to the ground making my best fearsome I not pleased noise and hold it down until it summits .
One year old dogs do push boundaries I hope the trainer gives you some good systems to deal with it.

 

[jodie3]

A one year old Dalmatian is going to be a very high energy dog which will need a lot of mental stimulation as well as physical activity.

They do respond well to training but you need to be consistent with the training as they are more intelligent than most people give them credit for and will look to do their own thing if given a chance.

They mostly crave human companionship and want to please you, but on their terms!

They are also the Peter Pan of the dog world and don't calm down much with age.

Don't forget they were bred to run all day alongside a carriage.

And I am mad enough to have three!

 

[Alec Swan]

How is hitting a dog giving it dignity and respect ?
.......

You have to look at the bigger picture, not just wallop the dog each time it does not do something that YOU think is wrong.

Becasue hitting a dog makes you have such a great rapport?????

You both, along with others, seem to have the idea that physical force is used to make a dog do as you wish. That isn't the case.

With all dogs, the trainer needs to have the animal's respect. There are those dogs who will respond in a willing manner, and there are those, who through mismanagement in the early stages, will defy the handler, they'll be as wooden as possible and whilst it's often breed-linked, they can be pig ignorant.

There has never been any point in striking a dig because it doesn't understand you or makes a mistake, and that seems the be the direction of your argument. Violence in such a situation is counterproductive. I realise that you don't understand, but those dogs which actively refuse to show any degree of respect for the handler, on occasions need the facts of life pointed out to them. Striking a dog which refuses to listen or consider the handler, is on occasions, the shortest and often the only way to gaining the animals attention. NO relationship with a dog will be of value if it relies upon violence. Relationships with dogs must be a matter of mutual respect, and sometimes, to break through the outer shell of ignorance or stubbornness or just downright pig headedness, a wallop works wonders!

When a dog DOES understand the handler, and chooses to ignore the instructions, or in the case of the OP's Dalmation, chooses to snap at the owner, then that dog needs to learn some manners, and the shortest route to that, is as Dry Rot has said, treat it as another dog would.

Whether you choose to listen, is up to you both, but in closing I would ask you one question; If D_R and I are so barbaric and wrong, why do you suppose that we both stated on previous threads, and independently of each other, that the use of electric collars are cruel, especially in the hands of the inexperienced, yet there was a general chorus on here supporting their use?

Alec.

 

[stargirl88]

Okay I normally stay away from these threads but just want to say, Alec, that I know well-timed and appropriate physical corrections are effective - but I do sometimes wish you'd be careful who you say this to.
Such 'training' can get quickly get very ugly indeed, and in so many cases goes the wrong way, making the dog worse. As CAYLA said, you need to think about what works for the owner, not you. There are other ways to gain respect from an unruly teen, which are alot more "user-friendly".

My old trainer hammered into me that she trains and teaches as though her clients were all 6stone and their dogs were over-sized rotties, a smack would be shrugged off. Certainately maked me think, anyway!

 

[Alec Swan]

Okay I normally stay away from these threads but just want to say, Alec, that I know well-timed and appropriate physical corrections are effective - but I do sometimes wish you'd be careful who you say this to. I'm sorry, that's gone over my head. Why should I be careful?

Such 'training' can get quickly get very ugly indeed, Again, I don't understand. Sustained violence achieves nothing, and a relationship built upon violence is equally wrong. My argument concerns the dog which wilfully ignores all other entreaties, and responds to the treatment which a bigger, an older, and a stronger dog would dish out.

There are other ways to gain respect from an unruly teen, which are alot more "user-friendly". Really? I'm all ears! Earning, or demanding a dog's respect are one and the same thing. It's vital that dogs are compliant and obedient, be that in a work or a domestic environment. I've a mate who has a terrier, it's facially scarred his daughter AND his wife for life, and it's bitten him on numerous occasions, and it's always the same problem. The dog claims a chair, and you go near it at your peril. It started when the dog was a puppy, and they thought that it was funny. It isn't so funny now. I offered to shoot the bloody thing, but no, they love it!

.......

Alec.

 

[Clodagh]

Alec and DR I agree with you that a smack is often the answer but you can't teach people when to do it. It is something you know or you don't. I (hope) I can tell when a dog would react better to a smack/ a raised voice or just ignoring. Each dog is different and some owners just don't have the knowledge, or the instinct, to be able to instantly tell what is appropriate in that circumstance and at that specific time.
Some dogs need a smack and some dogs need understanding. A lot of people just know what is best, but a lot of people don't.

 

[Booboos]

'Respect' is a notion that only beings with higher cognitive abilities can understand and apply. I find it very odd that people advise that dogs should be treated as dogs and in the same breath go on about the dog respecting the owner.

 

[Teaselmeg]

You both, along with others, seem to have the idea that physical force is used to make a dog do as you wish. That isn't the case.

With all dogs, the trainer needs to have the animal's respect. There are those dogs who will respond in a willing manner, and there are those, who through mismanagement in the early stages, will defy the handler, they'll be as wooden as possible and whilst it's often breed-linked, they can be pig ignorant.

There has never been any point in striking a dig because it doesn't understand you or makes a mistake, and that seems the be the direction of your argument. Violence in such a situation is counterproductive. I realise that you don't understand, but those dogs which actively refuse to show any degree of respect for the handler, on occasions need the facts of life pointed out to them. Striking a dog which refuses to listen or consider the handler, is on occasions, the shortest and often the only way to gaining the animals attention. NO relationship with a dog will be of value if it relies upon violence. Relationships with dogs must be a matter of mutual respect, and sometimes, to break through the outer shell of ignorance or stubbornness or just downright pig headedness, a wallop works wonders!

When a dog DOES understand the handler, and chooses to ignore the instructions, or in the case of the OP's Dalmation, chooses to snap at the owner, then that dog needs to learn some manners, and the shortest route to that, is as Dry Rot has said, treat it as another dog would.

Whether you choose to listen, is up to you both, but in closing I would ask you one question; If D_R and I are so barbaric and wrong, why do you suppose that we both stated on previous threads, and independently of each other, that the use of electric collars are cruel, especially in the hands of the inexperienced, yet there was a general chorus on here supporting their use?

Alec.

I am not sure how you can advocate striking a dog to get its respect and then say ' NO relationship with a dog will be of value if it relies on violence' ???

I lot of people think their dog is being willful, dominant etc when in fact it just does not understand what is being asked of it. If the dog is not doing what you ask of it, take a step back and proof the command it is ignoring.

OP, I am glad your parents are getting help from a trainer ( although if the trainer wants them to be pack leader or dominate the dog, change trainers !) Advice on the internet can only be based on what is written, having someone experienced seeing the problem first hand is 100 times better, good luck !!

 

[Smith123]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I really interesting debate.

An update on today, from getting up I have taken a no nonsense attitude to him today. Sitting, letting me through doors first, waiting, stepping back etc etc...

He gas been perfect apart from one little incident, he was in his bed under the table and I wanted him to get up to go out for a wee. I called and he just looked at me, normally my mum would then go and get him a treat to get him up, but I didn't want to do that. I quietly went to get him up with my hand and he did a tiny argumentative snap( he never actually gets my hand its more of a threat' I straight away pulled his bed and tipped him out, shouted at him and he sat there very submissively. He went out came back in and I ignored him until he came and sat by me. After this he has been very quiet and submissive tonight!! I seem to be understanding him a bit more now...

 

[Alec Swan]

'Respect' is a notion that only beings with higher cognitive abilities can understand and apply. ........

If we're to accept the general understanding of the word, then that is clearly wrong.

Alec.

 

[CAYLA]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I really interesting debate.

An update on today, from getting up I have taken a no nonsense attitude to him today. Sitting, letting me through doors first, waiting, stepping back etc etc...

He gas been perfect apart from one little incident, he was in his bed under the table and I wanted him to get up to go out for a wee. I called and he just looked at me, normally my mum would then go and get him a treat to get him up, but I didn't want to do that. I quietly went to get him up with my hand and he did a tiny argumentative snap( he never actually gets my hand its more of a threat' I straight away pulled his bed and tipped him out, shouted at him and he sat there very submissively. He went out came back in and I ignored him until he came and sat by me. After this he has been very quiet and submissive tonight!! I seem to be understanding him a bit more now...

You have confused him with your change in handling him, he is now the one thinking twice, he sees another side to you a firmer no nonsense side
Never go get a dog that hides under a table (its inviting an attention seeking game of (snap) and knows it has the upper had esp if you hesitate in the way you skirt around trying to avoid the snap as (CC suggests) snap/snack = (result) freedom/human goes/backs off, you upped the anti and tackled if from another angle (good for you)

 

[Booboos]

If we're to accept the general understanding of the word, then that is clearly wrong.

Alec.

The dictionary definition is "a feeling of deep admiration for someone elicited by their abilities, qualities or achievements", synonyms 'regard', 'esteem', 'reverence'
according to which my point still stands. A dog can neither perceive nor evaluate a person's abilities qualities and achievements. "Respect" is a complex, normative term - whatever one thinks about the possibility of conscious thought in animals I don't think anyone claims they can understand such concepts.

What is the general understanding of the word and how does it differ from the dictionary definition?

 

[Alec Swan]

I am not sure how you can advocate striking a dog to get its respect and then say ' NO relationship with a dog will be of value if it relies on violence' ???

.......

Once a respectful and compliant state has been reached, then there will be no need for violence. If a canine/human relationship is reliant upon violence to maintain control, then the relationship is worthless. I'm not too sure how else to explain it.

There are those dogs who through their breed type, or upbringing, are given to being selfish, non compliant and ignorant. There are also those, who for the very same reasons, have such a drive and energy, such a will, that they have to be forced into compliance. I've a home bred cocker bitch who's now 11 months. I don't care for too early a start on obedience work with puppies, I prefer to allow them to develop, working on the basis that I can be a bit hard on dogs, and I'd always rather have a dog which I have to stop, than one which I have to push and encourage. This puppy has been a little horror! She's had to learn the hard way, and now that she listens to me, now that she's decided against taking off and killing the bantams, now that she drops to just a peep of the whistle and takes her sides, and hunts like a (mostly) controlled dog, with a drive and style which can't be put there, she and I are now the best of mates. We still have our moments, but we're building a relationship, and she's growing to like and respect me, as I am her. If I were still using physical contact to control her, then that would be a relationship which wouldn't be what I want, it would be worthless. Perhaps I haven't explained myself too well previously. Has that helped?

Alec.

 

[stargirl88]

I'm sorry, that's gone over my head. Why should I be careful? - because of the next point in that post some people have the ability to time a phyisical correction perfectly, others not so. Obviously none of us has seen the dog, and I'm not saying the OP is ster-youpid but if someone goes home after reading such advice, gives their dog a smack thinking they'll get respect, and it backfires on them (as in, just makes the dog more confused - frustrated - and therefore aggressive) I just think it's a bit risky posting things like that. Not that you'd be responsible for others stupidity, and of course people should get advice off REAL LIFE PEOPLES but hopefully that makes a bit more sense! That's why, if I do suggest anything on this forum, it'll be stuff that, should someone get it wrong, everything won't go tits-up or get worse. Does that make sense?

Again, I don't understand. Sustained violence achieves nothing, and a relationship built upon violence is equally wrong. My argument concerns the dog which wilfully ignores all other entreaties, and responds to the treatment which a bigger, an older, and a stronger dog would dish out. Pretty much meant what I just wrote, it can get ugly - not everyone is strong enough to dish out the treatment of another dog. Nor do we have the visual/body language of another dog - so acting like one doesn't necessarily get you anywhere. I don't want to drag this name up but there's that classic video of Caesar M reprimanding a dog "being the alpha" and had the dog climbing back up the lead at him. That's what I mean when I say it can turn ugly - and he's a pro with those methods! I wouldnt, personally, expect your average pet owner to be doing that.


Really? I'm all ears! Earning, or demanding a dog's respect are one and the same thing. It's vital that dogs are compliant and obedient, be that in a work or a domestic environment. I've a mate who has a terrier, it's facially scarred his daughter AND his wife for life, and it's bitten him on numerous occasions, and it's always the same problem. The dog claims a chair, and you go near it at your peril. It started when the dog was a puppy, and they thought that it was funny. It isn't so funny now. I offered to shoot the bloody thing, but no, they love it!
There are all sorts, which I'm sure you're already aware of, but I know you'll run off screaming if I mention food but it's taking control of a dog, and it's environment. What does the dog want? What's driving it? A food-motivated dog can be put on a learn to earn program, a toy-motivated dog - restrict toy access. Freedom-motivated - use free-time as a reward (If I spot a squirrel in the distance, I'll call my dog over, I'll work him a bit, he'll wonder why.... then I yell SQUIRRELLL!!!, I'll point, and it's the best reward in the Whole Wide World (yes I can recall him off it ). YES it's the long-winded versions, but it does work, and the dog is confident with it.
As for your mate with the JR - that's a classic, isn't it! But it's not the dog being dis-respectful, to me. It's no different to me laughing because a dog chased its tail, and x-amount-of-time later I have a compulsive tail-chaser on my hands. Only it was aggression they were reinforcing.

Hope I've made sense!

Either way, OP, glad you're finding a way that works. Onwards and upwards

 

[Alec Swan]

.......

An update on today, from getting up I have taken a no nonsense attitude to him today. Sitting, letting me through doors first, waiting, stepping back etc etc...

He gas been perfect apart from one little incident, he was in his bed under the table and I wanted him to get up to go out for a wee. I called and he just looked at me, normally my mum would then go and get him a treat to get him up, but I didn't want to do that. ..........

Whilst I'm yacking away with others, I'm ignoring you, but it isn't intentional! That really is excellent news. I'm not patronising you, that's real progress. Dogs are actually happier when they understand their boundaries, and they live in a disciplined world. It may well be that with asserting your authority, by claiming doorways and gates, by making the dog lie down before permitting movement, that you will find his "don't touch me, I'll do as I like" approach to life comes to an end, without you slapping him!!

I'm pleased to hear that you resisted the idea of tit-bits. Make him work for the praise which you give him, that should be his only reward.

A word of warning, as CAYLA so rightly says, never go after a dog which is under a table. It's asking for trouble, but again, well done.

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

.......

What is the general understanding of the word and how does it differ from the dictionary definition?

"Respect is a positive feeling of esteem or deference for a person or other entity (such as a nation or a religion), and also specific actions and conduct representative of that esteem...."

If we accept that an "other entity" could be a dog, I'm reliant upon Wiki for that one!

Discarding any attempts at anthropomorphism, if we consider that young male lions in a pride, from what I see on the telly, will show due deference and respect to the pride leaders, so the word respect, though not of an entirely ethereal nature, can be used to describe what in essence is the fear of causing offence. Respect works for me, and I suspect, for others.

Alec.

 

[Smith123]

Whilst I'm yacking away with others, I'm ignoring you, but it isn't intentional! That really is excellent news. I'm not patronising you, that's real progress. Dogs are actually happier when they understand their boundaries, and they live in a disciplined world. It may well be that with asserting your authority, by claiming doorways and gates, by making the dog lie down before permitting movement, that you will find his "don't touch me, I'll do as I like" approach to life comes to an end, without you slapping him!!

I'm pleased to hear that you resisted the idea of tit-bits. Make him work for the praise which you give him, that should be his only reward.

A word of warning, as CAYLA so rightly says, never go after a dog which is under a table. It's asking for trouble, but again, well done.

Alec.

Thank you what should I do if he hides under the table?

 

[Teaselmeg]

Once a respectful and compliant state has been reached, then there will be no need for violence. If a canine/human relationship is reliant upon violence to maintain control, then the relationship is worthless. I'm not too sure how else to explain it.

There are those dogs who through their breed type, or upbringing, are given to being selfish, non compliant and ignorant. There are also those, who for the very same reasons, have such a drive and energy, such a will, that they have to be forced into compliance. I've a home bred cocker bitch who's now 11 months. I don't care for too early a start on obedience work with puppies, I prefer to allow them to develop, working on the basis that I can be a bit hard on dogs, and I'd always rather have a dog which I have to stop, than one which I have to push and encourage. This puppy has been a little horror! She's had to learn the hard way, and now that she listens to me, now that she's decided against taking off and killing the bantams, now that she drops to just a peep of the whistle and takes her sides, and hunts like a (mostly) controlled dog, with a drive and style which can't be put there, she and I are now the best of mates. We still have our moments, but we're building a relationship, and she's growing to like and respect me, as I am her. If I were still using physical contact to control her, then that would be a relationship which wouldn't be what I want, it would be worthless. Perhaps I haven't explained myself too well previously. Has that helped?

Alec.

So you hit the dog ( violence)to make it compliant and you think that the dog then respects you ? The dog is scared of the consequences, so you have a relationship based on violence, not sure how you can spin it any other way !

I read your post a while back on your treatment for your dog around chickens and was horrified. I am not sure why in general you think you have to be so hard on your dogs get to them to behave.

OP, I would move the dog bed from under the table and use a harness and house line to get him out of the bed if needed, then reward for coming to you. He is guarding the bed, outsmart him, don't confront him, that little growl/ snap might be a bite next time.

 

[Alec Swan]

Thank you what should I do if he hides under the table?

What I would do, would be to have a lead in my hand, go to the door as if you're going out for a walk, call him and when he stands at the door, pop the lead on him, walk him back in to the room, do some simple obedience work, sit, lie down, that sort of thing, then take him out, still on the lead, and a few minutes later, back into what I assume is your kitchen. Take his lead off, and then send him back to his bed, with a "Stay there".

When you want to put a dog's lead on, NEVER go to the dog, have the dog come to you. If you instil a sense of arrogance about your manner, then he will be more likely to accept a more subservient role, and as he's already shown himself to be a trifle ignorant, then taking him down a peg or two, wont do any harm. With your current progress, that's the approach that I'd take.

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

So you hit the dog ( violence)to make it compliant and you think that the dog then respects you ? The dog is scared of the consequences, so you have a relationship based on violence, not sure how you can spin it any other way !

........

Teaselmeg, you seem determined in that you wont listen. Fine by me.

Alec.

 

[Dry Rot]

Becasue hitting a dog makes you have such a great rapport?????

I suspect I've had a greater rapport with a greater number of dogs than you've had hot dinners!

 

[Dry Rot]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I really interesting debate.

An update on today, from getting up I have taken a no nonsense attitude to him today. Sitting, letting me through doors first, waiting, stepping back etc etc...

He gas been perfect apart from one little incident, he was in his bed under the table and I wanted him to get up to go out for a wee. I called and he just looked at me, normally my mum would then go and get him a treat to get him up, but I didn't want to do that. I quietly went to get him up with my hand and he did a tiny argumentative snap( he never actually gets my hand its more of a threat' I straight away pulled his bed and tipped him out, shouted at him and he sat there very submissively. He went out came back in and I ignored him until he came and sat by me. After this he has been very quiet and submissive tonight!! I seem to be understanding him a bit more now...

Excellent! Respect often isn't about aggression or blows but administering a short sharp shock (which is what I said in my previous post that some did not bother to read properly). A good teacher in the classroom gains respect in much the same way.

I took an old bitch and a few pups down the field for a walk. One of the kennel maids came too. The pups were annoying the bitch and I knew what would happen next but said nothing. Suddenly, the bitch spun round and flattened one of the pups which let out horrendous screams.

The girl rushed up to the pup, reassuring it, muttering about the nasty bitch. I told her to calm down and examine the pup. Was it cut? Was it bleeding? Was there even any saliva on it as there must be if the bitch had bitten it? Of course, there was none.

The pup had pushed the boundaries of what is acceptable in the social hierarchy of dogs and had been quickly and firmly put in it's place. Strangely, the bitch did not march the pup off to "time out" or even threaten to stop it's pocket money.... Dogs don't do that, but they are experts at the short sharp shock and once respect is established you may be sure the pup would pay attention to the slightest growl or aggressive look.

Somehow I think that will be another wasted post. There is none so blind as those who will not see.