Reri1826
Well-Known Member
I think this is key- babies get really heavy to carry, then they strengthen in their cores and are much easier to carry than before, cause they carry themselves better and aren’t a dead weight.
17 Stone beginner rider
- Thread starter Gingerwitch
- Start date
I think this is key- babies get really heavy to carry, then they strengthen in their cores and are much easier to carry than before, cause they carry themselves better and aren’t a dead weight.
thefarsideofthefield
Well-Known Member
When I was a working pupil at a very large riding school in Surrey the proprietor had a strict weight limit of 12 stone ,fully clothed , and there were absolutely NO exceptions . If she suspected that a new client was not being entirely honest about their weight , or that a current client had gone over the weight , out would come the scales . If the person refused to get on the scales then they didn't get on the horse . We had some big horses in the school too , including a 17hh HW hunter type but she was adamant that no horse should be asked to carry more than that weight . Her argument was that , regardless of whether the rider was experienced or novice or the horse was young/old/ long backed/short backed/ fit/unfit/green/schooled or however it carried itself , at the end of the day you were placing a 12 stone weight , on a very small area , on the back of an animal whose back was not designed to bear weight . If you wanted a horse to have a long ridden career then you didn't over load it .
I remember one long term client being asked to get on the scales to verify her weight and was subsequently found to be over the limit . She was told she wouldn't be able to ride again until she lost weight . The proprietor was as pleasant as possible in the circumstances but the client was understandably upset - I mean there's really no nice way of saying it , is there ? The client was arguing that horses X and Y could carry her and that if X or Y appeared to be struggling then she would get off .
The proprietor asked the lady if she had ever injured her own back . The client responded that actually she had and so therefore she would of course be extra sensitive to the horse being in discomfort .
' So when you injured your own back ' asked the proprietor ' when did you first become aware of it ?'
A blank look from the client .
' I mean ' explained the proprietor ' did you feel the pain BEFORE you injured it ?'
'Don't be silly ' said the client .
' So what you're saying ' pointed out the proprietor ' that by the time you felt pain you had already sustained the injury ? '
Would your friend ( the animal lover ) hanker after taking up any other new activity with the knowledge that it might cause damage or injury to HIS own back or joints ? Sorry - but ( IMO ) 17 stone is way too heavy for any horse .
I remember one long term client being asked to get on the scales to verify her weight and was subsequently found to be over the limit . She was told she wouldn't be able to ride again until she lost weight . The proprietor was as pleasant as possible in the circumstances but the client was understandably upset - I mean there's really no nice way of saying it , is there ? The client was arguing that horses X and Y could carry her and that if X or Y appeared to be struggling then she would get off .
The proprietor asked the lady if she had ever injured her own back . The client responded that actually she had and so therefore she would of course be extra sensitive to the horse being in discomfort .
' So when you injured your own back ' asked the proprietor ' when did you first become aware of it ?'
A blank look from the client .
' I mean ' explained the proprietor ' did you feel the pain BEFORE you injured it ?'
'Don't be silly ' said the client .
' So what you're saying ' pointed out the proprietor ' that by the time you felt pain you had already sustained the injury ? '
Would your friend ( the animal lover ) hanker after taking up any other new activity with the knowledge that it might cause damage or injury to HIS own back or joints ? Sorry - but ( IMO ) 17 stone is way too heavy for any horse .
Cortez
Tough but Fair
I have in the past sourced hunters for an extremely wealthy gentleman who weighed around 18 stone. The gentleman was an absolutely horrible rider, money was no object and he bought some of the most lovely made hunters I've ever seen. He went through on average 3 - 5 horses a season, and always had to buy new horses each year. He absolutely ruined at least 15 horses. I stopped looking for horses for him after the first year, it was sickening to be a part of.
SatansLittleHelper
Well-Known Member
I'm tall (5'11") and approx 15.7st.
My local riding school where I have just restarted lessons has a limit of 16st.
My 15.2 heavy loan cob could carry me and someone else lol...he doesn't even break into a sweat and he's currently fat ?? I do ride in a light synthetic saddle rather than leather.
My local riding school where I have just restarted lessons has a limit of 16st.
My 15.2 heavy loan cob could carry me and someone else lol...he doesn't even break into a sweat and he's currently fat ?? I do ride in a light synthetic saddle rather than leather.
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
She sounds a lovely person not. Also 12st would rule out most men not stick thin so you are discriminating against the vast majority of male riders. The heavyweight hunter is described as a horse able to carry in excess of 14st and if you look at the men riding them I doubt many are that limit or below and they aren’t fat.
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
I have/have had, some weight carrying horses. My much missed grey horse would carry the gentleman easily, but these type of horses are rare now and unlikely to find themselves in a riding school. He was carrying 15 stone plus his tack in this picture and aged 6. 18h and still growing. At 9 he was a lot deeper, massively powerful and thankfully had manners to spare. He would have been kind enough to carry a beginner but his movement was so massive the beginner would have been launched on every trot stride. He was shown as a HW at county level and the ride judges loved him but always commented on his paces. I used a neck strap when he was learning changes, his step through was like sitting on a rocket launcher and he did dump me in the dressage arena in his first test with a change in it.
My feral cart horse would also carry weight, but would panic and dump anyone light or heavy, as soon as the rider lost balance. He also likes to travel on his forehand if allowed (he is out of a pure Shire mare, so bred to pull) so would find a big weight more hard work than than the grey horse. The cart horse is 17h. My lovely maxi cob, only 15,2 would also carry the gentleman beginner and be absolutely ideal for him to learn on, finding another one in her mould would take some doing. I have only seen one like her recently and that was with Robert Oliver who wanted a small mortgage for it !
Years ago many breeders put HIS stallions on their cart mares and produced proper heavyweight quality horses, sadly those days are gone. If I was a lot younger I would be very tempted to breed from the maxi cob.
My feral cart horse would also carry weight, but would panic and dump anyone light or heavy, as soon as the rider lost balance. He also likes to travel on his forehand if allowed (he is out of a pure Shire mare, so bred to pull) so would find a big weight more hard work than than the grey horse. The cart horse is 17h. My lovely maxi cob, only 15,2 would also carry the gentleman beginner and be absolutely ideal for him to learn on, finding another one in her mould would take some doing. I have only seen one like her recently and that was with Robert Oliver who wanted a small mortgage for it !
Years ago many breeders put HIS stallions on their cart mares and produced proper heavyweight quality horses, sadly those days are gone. If I was a lot younger I would be very tempted to breed from the maxi cob.
SatansLittleHelper
Well-Known Member
Wow AA, that grey is some horse..!!!!!!!
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
Open point to pointers carry 12.7lb over 3 miles plus. Red Rum, who was a small horse carried 12st to win. Maybe we have got used to seeing petite ladies riding enormous horses and forgotten that horses can carry much more weight if they had to.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Ooh, just remembered: I once found a horse for Pavarotti! This would have been 25 years ago, and again money was no object. The horse we got for him was a lot like AA's grey, but I must have tried at least 30 horses to find him, and he cost several 10's of thousands.
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
He was an Embla George x Embla Daisy (Colman) . Had him as a weanling thinking he would be 16.2. Which he he was - at 2 ! He was the sweetest boy and a joy to bring up. Lost to colic at just 13 and right in his prime.
cobgoblin
Bugrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
More than 18 stone.....and the horse had to be safe to lead his child's pony from. I never met him, but he did send a video of him riding in Italy and leading the kid on the pony (and a rather sweet note and a gift).
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
I am sure that most police and cavalry horses regularly carry a lot more than 12 st! The military saddles alone weigh goodness knows how much - far more than the usual RS horse's saddle.
thefarsideofthefield
Well-Known Member
She was quite nice actually - but she was definitely something of a battle axe . They were her horses and that was her view , they worked hard and she wanted them to have a long and healthy working life . We had liveries on the yard who were over 12st but she did not tell people with their own horses what to do .
I know men of all shapes and weights who might fancy a sit on a horse , but if I personally felt that they were too heavy then , regardless of whether it may be seen as ' discriminating against the vast majority of male riders ' goes , I , personally , would be inclined to put the welfare of the horse before the feelings of the rider . I also would not agree that ' most men ' would have to be stick thin to be under 12 stone ! My OH is 5' 11" and a very fit and muscular 11st . Lucky him ? Hell no - he competes in endurance events and spends hours training and watches what he eats because that's what his sport/hobby requires . He wants to be fit enough to enjoy his sport - but if he isn't - then the only person that suffers as a consequence is him .
I am 5' 10' and no stick insect myself , I have to work hard at maintaining a healthy weight but as a rider I do try really hard , because I feel that it is MY responsibility towards my horses to maintain an acceptable weight because they don't get any say in the matter. Nobody is monitoring me but if I felt that I was too heavy for my horses then I would either lose weight or stop riding . This is my opinion - every one will have their own ' red line'.
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
It’s honestly a horrible thing being judged because you don’t fit the perceived expectation of petite and overhorsed. I was told that I was too fat for Kia when I was about 10.5st and a size 12 because god forbid there was a belly roll poking through my 28’ jodhs ? God knows what they would have though seeing him carting me as a size 18/20 and 15 odd st across 20+ miles of common riding pulling the arms off me and living every second of it. I’m 5ft1 and short coupled with long legs for my height (my conformation is terrible ?) and I’m hourglass shaped so heavy chested with a more than adequate behind (even as a size ten) which I’m very honest about. I’ve always been thought to be heavier than I am. I don’t even look thin at 9.5st in size 10 clothes ??
But people don’t really have a clue what 9/10/11/12st looks like on the real world. It looks different on everyone.
But people don’t really have a clue what 9/10/11/12st looks like on the real world. It looks different on everyone.
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
The problem is this ‘perceived’ welfare issue. You ‘perceive‘ there is a welfare issue because someone is over 12st. I very much doubt my old boy would have been going round common ridings in his 30s when he was in his teens in the pics I have put above if there had been a welfare issue.
I am a very forthright person, so if anyone asked me to step on scales because they perceived I was over the limit even though I knew I wasn’t I’d skelp them round the head with the scales.
This is me in size 28jodhs and a size 12 shirt after sweating my ass off riding for three hours and doing the final canter on my 30+ yr old heart horse. Don’t look light Enough do I?
This is a subject that does people harm, I have seen people mentally scarred by other people’s perceptions.
ETA I bought this picture before anyone reports it ??
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conniegirl
Well-Known Member
People would be horrified by how much i ask my 13.2hh welshie to cart round.
Mind you he doesnt seem to have an issue with it When he is carting my fat arse up some fairly steep hills with no brakes!
Mind you he doesnt seem to have an issue with it When he is carting my fat arse up some fairly steep hills with no brakes!
SatansLittleHelper
Well-Known Member
It’s honestly a horrible thing being judged because you don’t fit the perceived expectation of petite and overhorsed. I was told that I was too fat for Kia when I was about 10.5st and a size 12 because god forbid there was a belly roll poking through my 28’ jodhs ? God knows what they would have though seeing him carting me as a size 18/20 and 15 odd st across 20+ miles of common riding pulling the arms off me and living every second of it. I’m 5ft1 and short coupled with long legs for my height (my conformation is terrible ?) and I’m hourglass shaped so heavy chested with a more than adequate behind (even as a size ten) which I’m very honest about. I’ve always been thought to be heavier than I am. I don’t even look thin at 9.5st in size 10 clothes ??
Exactly...I'm 15st 7 but am 5' 11" so nobody ever thinks I weigh that much.
Not the best pic but me with my young lad last year...I was 15.9 then
JJS
Well-Known Member
But the difference is that none of you are unbalanced beginners (nor do any of you actually look too big for your horses) ??
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
This one did make me smile. So, fully dressed, you would have been the dreaded 16 stone. It is a poor do when I look at your photo there and think that there are some people who think that no horse could carry you.
I guess it goes back to the fact that we all look at life through our own personal experience. If some people are small, they think that is the norm. Not that I agree with some of the sights I see, with people obviously too large. Like that lady who took a poor TB on the common ride, whose photo hit the press. It is about the horse using itself correctly to use the core and lift the back when carrying heavier weights, being suitably fit, plus the tack fitting. Beginner riders do make mistakes, but good teaching can minimise that.
Police horses carry big men, especially they did 20 years ago when most Police Officers were men. There was a 'weight limit' for new starters, can't recollect actually getting anyone to step on the scales though. Once they were in, they rarely looked the same shape 20 years on!
teddypops
Well-Known Member
I worked at an equestrian centre that didn’t really have a weight limit. There were ID’s, shire x TB’s, highlands and fjords who all could carry weight. I’m amazed at riding schools having a 14stone limit as that’s not heavy for a man. My husband is 5’11” and skinny, he weighs 13.5stone!
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Hi
Slh - what area are you in and if a 100 mile radius of Burton on Trent could you pm me the place. Thanks
2ndtimearound
Well-Known Member
When they are back open again, Cannock Chase Trekking Centre has a weight limit of 16 stone and a few weight carriers (they do lessons as well as treks). Obviously, he’ll still have to lose a little. It’s a 35 to 45 minute drive from Burton.
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
Not a beginner but I am over the proposed 12st limit an he isnt exactly a huge hunter or a weight carrying typeBut the difference is that none of you are unbalanced beginners (nor do any of you actually look too big for your horses) ??
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
We have to wonder if a twelve stone weight limit is used how any average man can ever learn to ride .
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
It takes me back to my early teens (early 1970s) and what we made our ponies put up with.
We were a gang of pony mad friends. Some could afford ponies , some just ride at the school. On nice days we would get together and so we could all go out on a hack (read day long expedition sometimes) , we used to ride bareback , 2 to a pony, any others on bikes to swap over part way. It showed how tough the little beasts were. Mine was a 13.1 Fell type and carrying two strapping teenagers never seemed to tire him and none of them ever seemed worse for wear for it.
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Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
What a stunning grey, and sorry your never too old to put some good genes back in the pool.
Wonder where side saddle would fit in with all this ?
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
But the difference is that none of you are unbalanced beginners (nor do any of you actually look too big for your horses) ??
i was told in that picture I was too fat for him. I needed to slim down for his sake.
Lillian_paddington
Well-Known Member
Isn’t the difference that the 12st weight limit was for a riding school, and those objecting have privately owned horses? Riding school horses might do 4 hours of work a day, almost exclusively with beginners. There is a world of difference between a good 16st rider on their own horse, who can school the horse to be able to carry their weight correctly, and (I assume) only rides once a day, and several heavier riding school clients who all allow the horse to hollow and fail to carry weight correctly, while falling heavily on the horse in trot as they have not learned a smooth rising trot yet.
TotalMadgeness
Well-Known Member
I'd maybe start him on a simulator to learn balance/rising trot...