365/24/7 Turnout

[brighteyes]

I am reading all these condemnations of owners with horses 'suffering' from being stabled apart from when they are being exercised in the winter.

I take it none of these horses live in clay soil areas, have a predisposition to mud-fever or cellulitis, are thin-skinned and HATE being out in all weathers and folks who are lucky enough to own their own land don't mind their summer grazing being reduced to weeds and a poached, muddy deathtrap when it dries out?

For those of us in certain areas, who own their own land and sensitive horses, it's not something we dismiss from a welfare point of view and I do have 'sacrificial paddocks' but experience tells me they don't want to be out longer than for a good buck and skid about before crying to come in.

I also want the magic formula for toughening up my horses to love the winter rain and gales, not get mud-fever or ruined feet, preserving my limited grazing throughout the year and volunteers for filling pot-holes and reseeding so the grazing is perfect for the better weather - oh and this transformation has to be an overnight accomplishment. You do realise a totally re-seeded field can't be grazed for 12 months, or the new plants get ripped out by the roots? You aren't actually allowed to let land become poached beyond repair if you are receiving any kind of grant to maintain land. I'm not, but there's also that. It also takes specialized equipment, money and exact timing to do the appropriate land maintenance.

I regularly see stressed-out posters told to 'find a livery that offers 365/24/7 turnout' (hahahaha) and the 'my horse has laminitis, please help' panics with YO's who won't allow restricted or individual turnouts and every other demand which can be a flipping nightmare to accommodate. It takes planning when you DO have your own place and this year has been a nightmare. We have had to get extra soil in this year and manually fill hundreds of pot-holes a couple of ours created when we tried to get them on the land earlier in the spring. These would have dried out to a pastern-snapping nightmare. And yes, this disaster has happened to a horse which belonged to me, but it was frozen underfoot.

I'm incredibly fortunate. I have a large turnout barn and my TB lives in there in the daytime and comes to his (massive) stable at night. All my stables are huge and two have equal-sized fully accessible outdoor standing. There's the trash-paddock for a daily dice with pulled and broken legs and a dedicated sand turnout for rolling, an indoor horse-walker if the weather is truly vile and to keep the oldies moving gently but in winter, my grazing is out of bounds. And yes, it concerns me daily and hugely. Thankfully none of mine are on enforced box rest.

Until I hit on some magic formula to cover all aspects of this dilemma along with everyone else faced with these necessary restrictions I'll have to risk persecution and prosecution by the winter stabling police. I might just have mine all PTS and be done with it?

Rant over.

 

[Widgeon]

It is very idealistic isn't it - and there's so much that isn't ideal about horse-keeping in the UK. In my limited experience I do think 24/7 is good for *most* horses, *if* the land allows. But thse are huge caveats! Most of us are just choosing the best option out of the selection available, none of which are ideal.

I've come to the conclusion that the primary responsibility of a livery yard owner is to their land. Horse owners come and go but as you say, once a field is trashed the land owner / manager is the one picking up the pieces. Just my thoughts (because I have been thinking about this a bit recently)

 

[Hepsibah]

Calm down dear. Nobody is going to take your horse away because it is stabled.
My lot prefer to be out 24/7/365. They seem happier that way and it suits their types being natives. I would avoid somewhere that had no turnout at all but what you describe in your post sounds acceptable enough. It makes me very sad to hear of horses kept in a 12x12 box for months every year, only allowed out when they're ridden. No opportunity to roll or mutual groom or break into a trot.

 

[meleeka]

I think most of us realise that we are trying our best with the facilities we have and nobody’s set up would be perfect for all horses.

I do think it’s easier if you aren’t on a yard. I don’t have much land, so I don’t think it’s possible to look on the grass as a food source. I feed hay all year and mine come into the yard at night through the winter. The rest of the time they have stable doors open to do as they please ( I’m fortunate that they all get on well). In don’t think I’d manage without a hardstanding, they spend most of their time eating hay there so that saves the ground a lot. My land always recovers in the Spring (it’s clay but surprisingly fairly well draining for clay) apart from Harrowing and weed killing when necessary. I then put a track up for the summer months.

Would I keep them in all winter so I didn’t have mud and had a field full of grass for the Spring? No I wouldn’t. I also wouldn’t keep them anywhere where they had to stand in a field all day with nothing to eat because hay isn’t allowed. Obviously in most cases, that’s down to the YO and not the owner.

I do think there are set ups that are convenient for the owner, but not so much for the horse. So long as people are putting the horses needs up there with their own, I don’t see a problem.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I'm a YO and I offer all-year round turnout, with the caveat that this may need to be restricted in adverse weather conditions.

We are on the Devon clay and this last winter has been a nightmare; one livery had to take her horses to another yard in the area with hard-standing as the field just wasn't usable.

Then you see griping posts about people wanting all-year turnout and not getting it! Would they rather have their horses out in mud up to their needs, huddled in a corner with nowhere dry to stand, in the freezing rain, as miserable as sin?? And because the grass is all trodden in, there's gonna be no grazing in the warmer months!!

YO's can't wave a magic wand and suddenly procure decent weather! If only.....

We all do our best but can't sh!t miracles, alas.

 

[AmyMay]

Going against the grain somewhat, as I have never wanted 24/7 winter turnout - just out for the day.

 

[PSD]

Going against the grain somewhat, as I have never wanted 24/7 winter turnout - just out for the day.

This! Daily turnout is far better in my eyes than 24/7

 

[Flicker]

I’ve been on one yard with 365 turnout 24/7 and they had a massive amount of land. Like hundreds of acres. It was great until you were trying to get your horse in in the dark from a herd of 9 in a 10 acre field. I saw my horse daily and was lucky enough to work close by so would grab her in at lunchtime, ride in the evening and chuck her back out again. But there were horses there whose owners didn’t see them for weeks, literally. They’d be desperate to come in out of the flies or the rain and would be really aggressive at the gate. YO was useless and couldn’t care. Other liveries would end up fixing rugs, treating abscesses etc. My current yard also has a lot of land and will try to keep the horses out at much as possible but if the weather or the flies are bad, they all come in for a bit of respite for a few hours or overnight. This seems to work well, but it is dependent on a very good YM and staff - which it has.

 

[AmyMay]

Daily turnout is far better in my eyes than 24/7

I’m not sure I entirely agree with this. But given how wet our winters are (and let’s face it, most of the year), I find it easier and more enjoyable having a stable to bring a horse in to.

You’ve got to have some pretty impressive land to be able to have horses out 24/7 in the winter. And for the ridden side of things - I’d far rather ride a dry horse than a wet one (regardless of rugs).

 

[PSD]

I’m not sure I entirely agree with this. But given how wet our winters are (and let’s face it, most of the year), I find it easier and more enjoyable having a stable to bring a horse in to.

You’ve got to have some pretty impressive land to be able to have horses out 24/7 in the winter. And for the ridden side of things - I’d far rather ride a dry horse than a wet one (regardless of rugs).

It’s better for us where I am as we have so much rain and not much land. They end up knee deep in mud come November and the land gets churned up. Obviously it’s better if they can be out all the time but realistically given the conditions the fields get in during winter it’s better to have them in for some amount of time.

I find mine prefers to come in at night towards winter anyway as the grass is sparse and they end up scrapping over hay in the fields

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

We have been able to do 24/7/365 for the first time ever, this year. We are down to 2 horses from 4, we invested in mudcontrol mats and transformed an existing outbuilding into a field shelter AND we were very lucky with the weather. If we had had persistent snow from the east, they would have had to come in. These 2 horses have both lived out in the past, get on extremely well and are young. We wouldn't have expected the old ladies to stay out in all weathers, even with a shelter and rugged, they would have been miserable.

 

[windand rain]

I keep mine out 24/7/365 and to be perfectly honest would not own a horse if it had to be in for more than 12 preferably 8 hours. I guess I am very lucky in that our soil is sandy I can pretty much graze it as needed track in summer foggage in winter strip grazed. I agree to a point that most yards are overstocked and do not provide enough hard standing but it is possible if expensive to have horses out for 12 hours a day. It is the usual though horse owners would rather spend a fortune on unneccessary tat than pay the yard owners a living wage for the use of the land. Before someone shouts that it is cheaper and easier with them living out I do not agree we poo pick 365 days a year even in snow which is considerably more time consuming than mucking out. It costs at least as much as the fields need care and attention. I have done in and out at a livery yard in at night out in the day and the horses damaged the ground far more in that scheme than out 24/7. I also agree that some horses are conditioned to being in which is a human input thing. I also think 24/7/365 turnout is by and large healthier if properly managed. Colic/breathing problems/obesity are easier to control

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I bought my horse 4 years ago this August. In winter they are turned out from 6am til 4.30pm. This was the routine for the yard of 4, including my old lad who I've had for 16 years. I got down the yard after work and would find trashed fields, horses just not settled etc etc. My old lad got horrendous mud fever . That wad first winter at this yard . Previous yard fields were lovely and dry, this yard is very wet. Second year my horse decided he wanted in as soon as the weather changed. I tried everything. Ended up with them both in most of the winter , and thats how its been since. Its not me saying he can't go out for the day, its my horse telling me he doesn't want to be out for the day!! I've changed my work hours this winter so I can exercise him properly and the oldie can go out for a few hours in the morning . I have just had to accept my horse is not happy out in winter!

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I bought my horse 4 years ago this August. In winter they are turned out from 6am til 4.30pm. This was the routine for the yard of 4, including my old lad who I've had for 16 years. I got down the yard after work and would find trashed fields, horses just not settled etc etc. My old lad got horrendous mud fever . That wad first winter at this yard . Previous yard fields were lovely and dry, this yard is very wet. Second year my horse decided he wanted in as soon as the weather changed. I tried everything. Ended up with them both in most of the winter , and thats how its been since. Its not me saying he can't go out for the day, its my horse telling me he doesn't want to be out for the day!! I've changed my work hours this winter so I can exercise him properly and the oldie can go out for a few hours in the morning . I have just had to accept my horse is not happy out in winter!

But you have identified that this is because the land is unsuitable for them.

 

[rabatsa]

I had two winters where I had absolutely nowhere under cover or dry to put my horses. I strip grazed 12 acres of rushes, thistles and other assorted goodies, using a back fence to try and keep poaching to a minimum. It worked, turned out to be do-able but no way was it pleasant. One of the winters was exceedingly wet and my poo picking quad bike got stuck on more than one occaision.

Surprisingly it did the field the world of good and really knocked the rushes back. Now that the field is in really good fettle the same system would be a disaster.

My land is clay and the fields have not seen a plough since at least the end of war dictats on cropping.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

But you have identified that this is because the land is unsuitable for them.

He has loads of hay, he has company. There is grass until he starts his antics. He won't even go out for 10 mins in a grass filled pen made especially for him right next to his stable on nice ground. As I say I have tried everything. Whilst I'm not disputing the ground is wet he has had access to grass filled fields before anything else has grazed it and he still doesn't settle. No change in routine and no change in friends. Its bizarre the way he changes over night.

 

[rabatsa]

Nearly 50 years ago I had a mare that would not stay in the field once darkness fell. She would start pacing the fence as the light started to fade and then jump out. More than once she also jumped INTO her stable when no one came to her rescue.

It mattered not if her companions were still out in the field. During the day you could take all the others away and she would hardly looked up from eating.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

We have all year turnout at our yard but they have to be stables overnight in winter. They can be out from 5/6am to 8/9pm but YO wants them in at night. There are two paddocks that get wrecked every year one for mares and one for geldings and if you want to turn out that’s your options for winter but as soon as summer fields are open they are all out 24/7 except for that crazy handful that seem to like mucking out all year round ?

 

[sport horse]

I think there is a great problem - people here are describing their 'horses' and in the next breath they are 'natives' The vast majority of 'natives' are classed as 'ponies' and there is a massive difference in the care of a native and, say, a warmblood sport horse.

My sport horses are happy in their stables to the point that we do not even have to shut the doors! We are sadly on clay but over the years I have invested in two or three sand corrales where they can go out, have a kick and a buck and a roll by which time they have realised that it is raining and they would prefer to be in their nice dry stables with a good pile of hay! They are all exercised/worked daily and go on the walker for 40 minutes while they are mucked out. A couple also go back on the walker in the afternoon as they need more exercise for health reasons.

At this time of year they all go out in the fields for two or three hours but frankly by then they are hanging out by the gates and whinnying to us to get them in. On a bad fly day they do not even last that long!!

Despite the emotional hysterics of some posters, they are so 'not shut in their 12 x 12 boxes 23 hours/day. Even if they were, the boxes are much much bigger than that!

It is horses or ponies (and please differentiate when you are posting as it makes a massive difference to any answer) for courses.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Ours are very definitely horses!

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I much prefer my Welsh D in at night all year round.

Some days in the winter if the weather is really bad, he will spin round his stable to avoid going out!

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I think there is a great problem - people here are describing their 'horses' and in the next breath they are 'natives' The vast majority of 'natives' are classed as 'ponies' and there is a massive difference in the care of a native and, say, a warmblood sport horse.

My sport horses are happy in their stables to the point that we do not even have to shut the doors! We are sadly on clay but over the years I have invested in two or three sand corrales where they can go out, have a kick and a buck and a roll by which time they have realised that it is raining and they would prefer to be in their nice dry stables with a good pile of hay! They are all exercised/worked daily and go on the walker for 40 minutes while they are mucked out. A couple also go back on the walker in the afternoon as they need more exercise for health reasons.

At this time of year they all go out in the fields for two or three hours but frankly by then they are hanging out by the gates and whinnying to us to get them in. On a bad fly day they do not even last that long!!

Despite the emotional hysterics of some posters, they are so 'not shut in their 12 x 12 boxes 23 hours/day. Even if they were, the boxes are much much bigger than that!

It is horses or ponies (and please differentiate when you are posting as it makes a massive difference to any answer) for courses.

I was old school in that you had to turn your horse out Dartford as long as possible etc. Which I did for many years and to be honest they were fine. Tb and tb x. No natives. This horse is a different kettle of fish and I don't think people really believe it unless you see it. People have said just leave him to it. I honestly wouldn't have a horse left. I, like many others only want the best for them so now I don't worry about it. He has clear6made his choice. This time of year he is out as much as possible.

 

[Upthecreek]

I don’t believe that 365/24/7 turnout is necessary, but personally I would not choose to keep horses if I couldn’t keep them somewhere where some turnout (albeit limited in winter) was possible all year round. In my opinion time in the field with their herd to be horses is essential for their wellbeing, and regardless of circumstances, condition of land etc. I would not choose to keep horses if I couldn’t offer this because I feel it is depriving them of a basic need. I could not justify putting my want to own a horse over their need to have time to horse around.

In my experience most horses that prefer to be stabled and don’t enjoy turnout have become conditioned to that. It is not natural for a horse to prefer being in solitary confinement in a box rather than turned out in a herd.

 

[windand rain]

Over the years my horses have varied from eventing tbs, tb broodmares warm bloods and ponies all have had the same 24/7/365 turnout when possible and all competed off grass successfully. Had them all from young so never stable conditioned. Had a broodmare tb that jumped out of her stable she came to me at 7 the oldest ever horse I have bought. It is I can assure you human conditioning. All will stand in if needed but much prefer to be out

 

[RHM]

I will go against the grain and say I don’t like mine out 24/7 in summer. They both have the propensity to get too portly and having them out 24/7 on the grass around me would be a death sentence for my pony in particular. I love 24/7 turnout in winter though. I try and rent a field for this purpose and turn them away for a couple of months to have a winter break. It’s excellent for their waistlines!
For those that say it’s not possible with their sports horses. My ISH is the one that’s most happy to stay out in the torrential rain. It’s the native fell pony that gives me the pleading looks!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I know I've linked to it before but this study really resonated with me. I have previously owned an ex racehorse who hated being in a loose box and also currently have an arab whose (rather minimal) time in stables was greatly improved by putting open windows between the boxes.

https://www.ntu.ac.uk/about-us/news...tabled-alone-show-signs-of-stress-study-shows

I think that with my horses (arabs and anglo-arab) they definitely prefer being out and I am glad that currently I am able to accommodate that. My old anglo-arab seizes up terribly if stabled overnight these days. If I could no longer turn out 24/7 on grass, I hope that I could find a more social and active way of keeping them, so track livery, all weather turnout corral or loose in a barn would all be considered.

 

[Hepsibah]

I think there is a great problem - people here are describing their 'horses' and in the next breath they are 'natives' The vast majority of 'natives' are classed as 'ponies' and there is a massive difference in the care of a native and, say, a warmblood sport horse...

.....Despite the emotional hysterics of some posters, they are so 'not shut in their 12 x 12 boxes 23 hours/day. Even if they were, the boxes are much much bigger than that!

One of mine was a Cleveland Bay, a native but at 16.3hh not a pony and saying I was sad when horses are kept in a 12x12 box except when exercised is hardly hysterical. I have personally seen horses on yards who have literally been kept in 24/7 and only taken out to be tied up outside the stable to be mucked out all winter.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

One of mine was a Cleveland Bay, a native but at 16.3hh not a pony and saying I was sad when horses are kept in a 12x12 box except when exercised is hardly hysterical. I have personally seen horses on yards who have literally been kept in 24/7 and only taken out to be tied up outside the stable to be mucked out all winter.

It's not hysterical, the research backs you up. We need to rethink the way we stable horses IMO to allow the horses to have more social interaction. OK, there will always be that one horse who couldn't have that because *reasons* but that can be accommodated if we (the owners. yard owners etc...) are sensible.

 

[laura_nash]

I am reading all these condemnations of owners with horses 'suffering' from being stabled apart from when they are being exercised in the winter.
[..]
I'm incredibly fortunate. I have a large turnout barn and my TB lives in there in the daytime and comes to his (massive) stable at night. All my stables are huge and two have equal-sized fully accessible outdoor standing. There's the trash-paddock for a daily dice with pulled and broken legs and a dedicated sand turnout for rolling, an indoor horse-walker if the weather is truly vile and to keep the oldies moving gently but in winter, my grazing is out of bounds. And yes, it concerns me daily and hugely. Thankfully none of mine are on enforced box rest.

So yours aren't stabled full time in small stables when not exercised for months, and you don't think its fine to do that, and your rant is nonsensical?

The only person I've seen recommended to find somewhere with 24/7/365 turnout was someone with an older rescue horse that had never been stabled and was reacting badly to even going in one in summer, so not sure where the jump from "people say don't stable full-time for months without trying to provide alternative options" to "people say don't ever stable" came from?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

So yours aren't stabled full time in small stables when not exercised for months, and you don't think its fine to do that, and your rant is nonsensical?

The only person I've seen recommended to find somewhere with 24/7/365 turnout was someone with an older rescue horse that had never been stabled and was reacting badly to even going in one in summer, so not sure where the jump from "people say don't stable full-time for months without trying to provide alternative options" to "people say don't ever stable" came from?

It's much more fun than talking about football.

That rescue horse thread was very interesting though. When more was revealed about how the horse had been kept while fostered and why, it all made a lot more sense. I hope they do find a yard with winter turnout for that horse, it clearly will be much happier kept that way.