365/24/7 Turnout

[mariew]

Thats only if people dont look for alternatives. Horses dont need acres of lush pasture. Its not good for them.

Thats just one way, others have barns or all weather turnout pens.

In principle I don't disagree and but it is a fairly idealistic view in some aspects. Your setup wouldn't have worked where I was in South Essex on pure clay in the winter. Any small areas would turn to mud in a blink of an eye and even giving a horse an acre would turn the ground into a bog quickly. Also you would have to find a yard with enough grazing per horse to do so. In the south east land is scarce and you rarely get an acre/horse.

Another example back home where the ground is frozen with thick snow 3 to 6 months of the year a horse will pretty much stand still eating hay in a field and not for that long. All weather turnouts would be pointless as they would just be covered in snow. In reality I don't know how different it is to standing in a well ventilated stable eating hay v not moving in a field eating hay? Happy to be proven wrong.

I think we would all love enough space on sand based soil with field shelters, it just isn't that easy to find in some areas.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Don't think it shows as being evangelical on this thread at all its well known that horses living out are healthier

Oh, but there is all the usual evangelical anti stabling rhetoric on this thread ?‍.

Not all horses living out are healthier, that depends on many factors including the quality of the turnout and of the stabling.

 

[windand rain]

That's a bit pedantic but it is a scientific fact that on average horses that live out suffer less from colic breathing problems and arthritis pain. Not to say under cruel conditions being abandoned in a field with no care compared to a pampered pet it would hold as true but even then being abandoned in a field is better than being abandoned in a stable

 

[rara007]

We have over 5 acres per pony- we have 4 under 12hh unshod, 3 under 15hh and a shod 15.2. The ground still doesn’t allow for 24/7 turnout. There’s standing water or slippy clay hills for the worst of the winter that are difficult for people to cross let alone have a horse live on, around the turnout fields that become proper quagmires. We manage 24/7/365 for the over 20s (4 of the 8) but the others have to be rotated. We end up only using about an acre a pony and have the opposite problem as soon as it dries of far too rich grazing. Some areas of the county can event and park on grass in March-November- it’s too wet for us to cut the grass at the moment as the tractor is sinking in and that’s between the rock hard too slippy to canter without studs might as well be in tarmac weeks. Everyone’s ground is different and every horse is different. We have everything from cushingoid 30yo Shetland’s to international sports horses as well as both a stallion and a mare so 1 size isn’t going to fit all.

 

[Tarragon]

That's a bit pedantic but it is a scientific fact that on average horses that live out suffer less from colic breathing problems and arthritis pain. Not to say under cruel conditions being abandoned in a field with no care compared to a pampered pet it would hold as true but even then being abandoned in a field is better than being abandoned in a stable

I really don't think that anyone here would disagree with this statement.

 

[Julie Ole Girl]

Difficult debate. My two are in a large rented field. Come the winter, they can't wait to come in to their large cosy stable which they share, about 4/5pm. Come summer, they have a cosy field shelter, and hate having to come into the stable and stay a while, like today whilst the farmer 'topped' their field.

 

[lannerch]

Horses well pony’s used to be kept in pits, underground nearly all their life , similarly there is a lot of horse cruelty still going on in this world even in this country including over/under feeding, even keeping alone , but stabling your horse in winter with limited turnout is not .

You have to do what your surroundings allow , and IMO turning a horse in a field knee deep in mud is just asking for problems .

you have to do what your land allows , and if your horse has friends, food and daily exercise how you achieve this does not make you a better or worse horse owner .

And those suggesting that unless you can have 24hr turnout every day of the year then you should not own a horse well that’s plain ridiculous.

 

[laura_nash]

And those suggesting that unless you can have 24hr turnout every day of the year then you should not own a horse well that’s plain ridiculous.

Am I not seeing some posts or are people arguing with made-up people? Cause I haven't read anyone suggesting anything of the sort?

 

[laura_nash]

You have to do what your surroundings allow , and IMO turning a horse in a field knee deep in mud is just asking for problems .

Humans have a long history of modifying their surroundings rather than simply accepting whatever they find. Those stables we are discussing have to built they aren't supplied by nature.

I don't accept that stabling full-time vs turning out in a field in knee deep mud all winter are the only two possible options, even in wet areas on clay. The number of yards that have arenas these days (compared to, say, 50 years ago) proves that things can change.

 

[lannerch]

Am I not seeing some posts or are people arguing with made-up people? Cause I haven't read anyone suggesting anything of the sort?

You have read different to me then

 

[lannerch]

[/QUOTE]. I don't accept that stabling full-time vs turning out in a field in knee deep mud all winter are the only two possible options, even in wet areas on clay. The number of yards that have arenas these days (compared to, say, 50 years ago) proves that things can change.[/QUOTE]
Totally agree .

 

[I'm Dun]

In principle I don't disagree and but it is a fairly idealistic view in some aspects. Your setup wouldn't have worked where I was in South Essex on pure clay in the winter. Any small areas would turn to mud in a blink of an eye and even giving a horse an acre would turn the ground into a bog quickly. Also you would have to find a yard with enough grazing per horse to do so. In the south east land is scarce and you rarely get an acre/horse.

Another example back home where the ground is frozen with thick snow 3 to 6 months of the year a horse will pretty much stand still eating hay in a field and not for that long. All weather turnouts would be pointless as they would just be covered in snow. In reality I don't know how different it is to standing in a well ventilated stable eating hay v not moving in a field eating hay? Happy to be proven wrong.

I think we would all love enough space on sand based soil with field shelters, it just isn't that easy to find in some areas.

But thats not what I said? I said the exact opposite. You dont need a large acreage. You dont need free draining soil. Stocking densities can be much higher on a proper surfaced track. People have 8 horses on a track round 2 acres with no issues.

You can have a surfaced track, or just a surfaced turnout area. Doesnt have to be expensive or extravegent. Mines gravel and hardcore, nothing fancy. It probably cost me less than grass management would do. The benefit of the track over small turnouts is that they move, a lot!

The difference between a stable and turnout is choice. Choice to interact and choice to move about as they want.

But it requires people to change the way they manage horses and to change their mindset.

 

[Leam_Carrie]

It is tricky. My two are at home, on around 3 acres. They are shut on a large area of hard standing at night with hay and two shelters. They choose to be out in bad weather using natural shelter from the trees. I’d like them in the shelter more.

One mini Shetland and one CB x ISH.

I think about finding a livery yard so I can ride more in winter…

 

[milliepops]

But it requires people to change the way they manage horses and to change their mindset.

In fairness, it also needs people to own their land or yard owner/land owners to think this way, the average horse owner can't particularly control this :/

 

[MuddyMonster]

It's also assumes a track system set up suits every horse, which IME it doesn't.

 

[I'm Dun]

In fairness, it also needs people to own their land or yard owner/land owners to think this way, the average horse owner can't particularly control this :/

Nope, and I've not seen any huge shift in thinking either.

 

[I'm Dun]

It's also assumes a track system set up suits every horse, which IME it doesn't.

It doesnt have to be a track. A school or surfaced turnout area probably doesnt work quite as well, but its certainly preferable to being in 24/7 or knee deep in a bog

 

[mariew]

I hear what you are saying, but I don't know of any yard where you would livery where you would be allowed to turn grass into a hardstanding track or give up non field space into a hardstanding paddock for all liveries unless there is one/some already. Where I have known winter sand paddocks exist, the horses only got a couple of hours of day, or half a day at most and they are used instead of any other turnout. In which case I would rather have them in a field for 5 or 6 hours.

Schools often get trashed if you turnout in them and then blocks people riding in them. Ok for emergencies but not a daily occurrence. (For me at least).

Which leads me back to what I think most people are saying - we do what we can and in some places you have to compromise, often on winter turnout. Or like some people here say, not own a horse or maybe move area, but that's not always easy either depending on the housing market and where you work.

 

[milliepops]

Nope, and I've not seen any huge shift in thinking either.

it's hard to know which would need to come first tbh.
My standard 24/7 TO set up works OK so even if we owned the 5 acre field that I have 3 on i don't think I'd change it to a track, bits are sectioned off to save/graze later and in a normal year we take hay off it and then let the horses have the run of it. it's minimal effort and expense.

Where I livery 2 the YO has sports horses who benefit from good and plentiful grazing, i can just imagine her face if I said we needed a track in my acre besides which, I'd need 2 individual tracks due to Kira's poor social skills. So I'm not being a driver for change there, either...

 

[brighteyes]

yes, I tried that but he fence walked constantly and turned the area into a mud bath as it was wet weather and we are on heavy clay. In desperation I gave him to my farrier who had a big barn where he could have more room to move around but he still never settled and was sadly pts.

Gosh that's sad.

 

[honetpot]

I have kept four on a two acre field out all year on about the only well draining field on the edge of a flood plain, one a TB. Now I have fourteen acres of very wet clay, its more sensible to leave some out all the time in winter the rest have a small thrash paddock and a large shed, which is deep littered, not pretty, but I prefer that to putting them in a stable and having them stood fourteen hours a day.
I think its all about being adaptable, and making the best of what you have for the benefit of the horse, and in my experience, most horses do better in social groups, even if it's not outside, or its a muddy bog.
One year my thrash paddock was more water than paddock, the mud dripped off the rugs, but they had a hell of a lot of fun doing skids and slides, and of course rolling so every part of them was covered in slimy mud.

 

[Megan V1]

In an ideal world our horses would live in herds on plains ,not be shod or have saddles let alone riders on their backs. But this is hardly realistic.

This is exactly how mine live now, haven't ridden for over 4 years due to back issues, mine not the horses, I have six horses who live out 24/7 with access to their stables if they want it on about 17 acres of mixed grazing with natural water supply and natural shelter. Never been happier. The good thing is they are at home with me so I only have to look out of the window to see them except when they are in the top fields then I have to walk out to check on them. I love seeing my little herd living like this and feel very lucky to have it.