4YO killed by dog

Their dog, their child. Their responsibility. Not the Government's. Licensing or banning dogs doesn't work. People will just not take responsibility for anything these days.

I've been badly bitten three times in totally unprovoked attacks - a Labrador every time. I was brought up with dogs, my kids were brought up with dogs - heavens, I was even named after one of the dogs!
 
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Just heard on the radio that it was a pitbull type, surprise surprise.

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In other words they cannot identify the breed. End of story. It could be anything then.

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from the details I heard on the radio, they will be carrying out tests on the dog to establish exactly what it was.
I have been bitten once, and badly, by a sheep dog. It was PTS straight after as the bite was v bad, and the owner had 4 young children and decided she couldn't take the risk
The only dog thats every really scared me was an Akita - they don't seem to give warnings or facial expressions so you can't tell what they're thinking!
 
The BBC are saying it was an illegal pit bull terrier type and the police are instigating criminal procedures. The police were warned that there was pit bull breeding at the house and failed to act. But I don't blame the police, they made a mistake but why should the authorities constantly have to save these idiots from themselves and mop up the aftermath.

I repeat, Bl@@dy stupid chavs.
 
Quite agree PoppyPiebald!

Pretty much every child that has recently been killed or mauled by 'pit bull types' have been so in their own home. It is no-ones fault other than the dog owners and parents of the children for allowing the two to be left unattended.

Any breed of dog is capable of killing a child if they are left alone with them and/or provoked. I would never leave my two alone with any children and wont even let children stroke them when they are out because they are just too big (and no they arent pit bulls!) but it is just common sense and responsible ownership.

Dog licensing is the only way to try and eradicate irresponsible owners and un-necessary breeding - but as per usual the police/rspca etc always have their hands tied by cruddy legislation and enforcing it would be impossible.

Drives me mad that these dogs are constantly demonised by the press - the buck stops at these ignorant chavs who have these dogs as status symbols and have no idea how to look after them.
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Rant over
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from the details I heard on the radio, they will be carrying out tests on the dog to establish exactly what it was.[ QUOTE ]


Sorry, this is my problem with the whole situation. There is no test that can establish a dogs breed. All identifiction is by 'self appointed experts', based on appearance.

And what exactly does 'pit bull type', cover? This is a daft situation, created by a bad law that was then ammended to create this new 'type', nonsense.
 
My friend assesses seized dogs - they weigh them, measure them and do character tests to determine their gameness and drive.

I agree, in this case, that the law is an ass - how do you determine a breed which in this country, isn't a breed?
 
I'm afraid although they aren't a breed legally, they are still bred. Look for adverts stating "old thyme" staffs for sale and pretty much 100% you'll find a pit bull. There are several near us, one fawn coloured with yellow eyes, it comes in the local pub with its chavvy owner and quite frankly, looks evil. Pit bulls tend to have a slightly longer muzzle than staffs and are muscular but not as stocky as a staff, the eyes are also smaller and more diamond shaped, staff tend to have larger eyes. A proper pit will be very agile and athletic, many "pit bull type" dogs are actually american bulldog (legal) dogs or crosses of these with staff.
 
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A quick google shows several lists with the most common breeds involved in biting incidents, most of these are based on American research, where the Pit Bull is not a banned breed.

German shepherd
Chow chow
Poodle
Italian bulldog
Fox terrier
Airedale
Pekingese
Dachshund
Chihuahua
Jack Russell Terrier
Australian Cattle Dog
American Cocker Spaniel
Beagle

No Pit Bulls, Staffies or supposed 'Dangerous' breeds.
I would say that unfortunately for these breeds, when they do bite, they have so much more power and therefore cause far more damage. This means that their cases are the only one reported in the media.

I worked in Boarding Kennels for years and have been bitten twice by dogs. One was a scruffy cross breed and the other was a Dalmatian. The breed we had the most problems with were various types of Collies.

Every dog has the propensity to bite, just because it has floppy ears doesn't mean it wouldn't rip your face off given have a chance. EVERY breed is Dangerous given the wrong training/upbringing/nature.
 
Oh I am aware of that - 'Irish/long-legged staff' is another favourite.

I know they are bred but there are so many types and many of them are full of all sorts of blood, outcrosses etc.
If there was a definitive type then things like a breed registry and DNA could be employed - but there isn't.
 
Agreed, the law is just hopeless. Also, if it takes experts to identify adult dogs what chance do the public have when buying what they may believe is a stafford etc yet turns out to be a dog of this new 'type', wording which covers an array of mixed breedings.

Its a real mess.
 
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A proper pit will be very agile and athletic, many "pit bull type" dogs are actually american bulldog (legal) dogs or crosses of these with staff. [ QUOTE ]


100% agree with you especially about this 'type' nonsense. Most dogs we see in the press have no blood connection to pits whatsoever.
 
Or of course red nose pups. I used to own and breed pits before the law change and would still keep them safely now if legal. Never had a problem with them and best breed I have ever kept. However, the law is the law whether I agree with it or not.
 
I remember watching a BBC programme about the RSPCA. They were at some kind of gathering (to do with the seasons, maybe at Stonehenge) and the commentator starting talking about a seized dog calling it a APBT.
Now if it was, how come it wasn't seized by the police who were present - or as I suspect, it wasn't an APBT, but a long legged staff cross, talk about bandying the name about.

Remember guys, a tall staff fits the APBT TYPE! as CC says they dont even recognise it as a breed here so how can they classify it - answer - they cant!
 
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I remember watching a BBC programme about the RSPCA. They were at some kind of gathering (to do with the seasons, maybe at Stonehenge) and the commentator starting talking about a seized dog calling it a APBT.


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I remember that programme and I thought exactly the same, they handed it back to that really drunk guy claiming it belonged to him.
 
What are people's feelings on DNA, microchipping, tattooing? My dogs have all three, to prove their parentage and to prove they are who their pedigrees say they are. It is widespread across Germany and is growing in popularity in the UK - you cannot compete in certain disciplines without at least two having been carried out on the dog.
The KC are reluctant to bring it in as a prerequisite (in parents) to registering puppies - they have been asked to!

Would this be a way to control or restrict the breeding and ownership of dogs of certain types without outlawing them?
Would this be a way of monitoring certain breeds?

Would it be prohibitive in terms of cost, or would it be too easy to duck out of?
 
I seem to recall one of the london councils have introduced compulsory microchipping for all dogs kept in housing association properties (either that or the tenants get evicted)- it certainly wont eliminate the problem but is certainly a good start considering most of these 'problem' dogs seem to derive from this type of property.

Personally I think all dogs should be chipped (at minimum) so owners who abandon dogs can be traced and prosocuted. Lets face it, it's hardly expensive to do so.

Trouble is, I guess as per usual it will only be those of us with nothing to hide who will abide and people will always find ways round it, or just move away so they cant be traced.

One of my dogs is a staff x ridgeback - to look at he would prob be stereotypically classed as a 'pitbull type' I rescued him from a (housing association) property I was visiting whilst working - unbelievably he was actually bred to fight and beaten up accordingly to fit the image of a status dog. Fortunately he was far too much of a wimp to have responded (has to have a coat before will even consider going out in the rain) but does have some psycological issues as a result. He is one of the fortunate ones but I heard not long after that the owners went out and got a staff puppy, presumably for the same purposes.

These are the sorts of people that need to be monitored closely and banned from keeping dogs as these are the sorts of scumbags that end up on the news with an innocent child and dog becoming the victims.
 
I think regualtion of breeding needs to be the first issue tackled in this country first and foremost....it is beyond a joke how many back street breeders are pumping out dogs and how many a massive population of them ending in the pound, either because the dog was cute, it got caught, they needed the money to top up the benefits, whatever they need a deterrant to reduce it.
It would break your hearts and madden the hell out of you if you visited pounds up and down the country tomorrow and saw the sheer number of bull/staff types in them freezing their tits of, living in an environment that they simply dont do well in as believe it or not in rescue staffs do realy bad in kennels they lose hair, weight and are driven stir crazy they are such sociable animals and crave human attention it's cruel and horrendous to see them within 4 concrete walls sorrounded by hudreds more barking dogs with little or no bedding, simply because they where bred by dick heads and bought by dick heads and discarded of in the usual easy manor.

*I feel the breeder should be made legally responsible for any dog they breed and sell for atleast 3 years of the dogs life and they should be chipped with some form of identification before they leave the breeder then the buyers name added and breeders kept on(preb the NI numbers rather than addy and phone number that can be changed the next day.

* All dogs bred and not health tested that are treat for a hereditrary defect prone to the breed through out it's life then the breeder should foot the bill.

*All dogs should be chipped, registered with a vet and insured.
If insurance can not be produced or a chip not found, said dog should be removed from owner and owner banned from keeping dogs.

*Breeding should be taxed and regulated like a business and people on benefits breeding should have benefits withdrawn, it's too easy for lazy arse scanks to top up benefits with breeding, hence no health tests as not affordable.

*All dogs bred from should be certified fit by a vet, if not there should be compulsary neutering and esp if any kind of medical condition or temperament issues is present.

Im affraid I disagree with the usual a poodle/lab/shih-tzu is jsut as likely to be aggressive and blahh blahh(of course some are little barstewards with bad attitudes, but they cannot cause the same amount of damage....nope, these dogs are bred for a purpose, much like a guard dog(will guard like it's life depends on it) and a greyhound will chase and kill a bunny it's in the blue print, they are in another league where damage and capability are concerned, I have seen the damage a whole range of dogs can do, there is a huge difference and yes terriers are fiesty eager and easy to bait on, but again they simply cannot take on something way over their own body weight and kill it in a small amount of time.
The owner is of course always at fault but they will never be held accountable and for this I would rather see the breeds banned inc ones I own, than see them rot in pounds, and I do train dogs I have done my fair share of re-socialising staffs and all manor of staff/bull/mastiff/akita and no doubt pit types, but I still would like to see them gone unless a law non laughable law can be put into place and like scratchline suggests it's not looking possible...........and no it's not all chavs, I see plenty of what would be deamed as respectable people buying these dogs and handing them over to rescue when they can no longer manage them, or for want of a better word could not be arsed to train them.
 
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But then any dog can snap... anybody seen the episode of the dog whisperer with the killer chihauha?!!?!! Evil little bugger that was! But because it wasn't a bull breed its oh so cute as opposed to oh so dangerous.

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I saw that one. A Pit Bull rescue took in a Chihuahua called El Diablo, but they couldn't do a thing with him as he was so aggressive. He even bossed around all the other dogs (who were all pits!!). However, he became a very well balanced, calm submissive dog after Cesar rehabbed him at his psychology centre. He was adopted by one of the show's crew members and got a new name (Stan, I think). Small dogs almost always get away with a lot more due to their size. Most people look at them and all they see are their itty bitty legs, their itty bitty mouths, and think their antics are funny. They aren't as amusing when they send their owners to the emergency room with bits of fingers missing, scratched, swollen, and bitten to bits arms and legs. In 2000, a 6-week-old baby was mauled to death by a Pomeranian. And a recent study has small breeds in its top 3 of most aggressive dogs. See: http://www.dogbiteclaims.co.uk/compensation/dangerous-breeds.html

As for the breeds deemed dangerous and aggressive (by the authorities). Cesar Millan proves time after time that Rotties, Pit Bulls, Dobies and others can be wonderful, safe pets. Just look at Daddy (a Pit Bull) - he has NEVER shown any aggression towards other dogs or humans in his fifteen years of life. And Junior (as in Daddy Junior - another Pit Bull) is going to be an excellent successor to Daddy. I love them both and all the other "dangerous" dogs in his pack. This is coming from someone who hated dogs until not that long ago!

If people were to learn dog psychology, there would be no more attacks and dogs would not lose their lives just because they were doing something that came naturally to them.

I also hope that after Cesar's tour of the UK (which starts March 2010), the ridiculous ban on pits and other breeds is lifted.

R.I.P. little boy and doggie.
 
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A quick google shows several lists with the most common breeds involved in biting incidents, most of these are based on American research, where the Pit Bull is not a banned breed.

German shepherd
Chow chow
Poodle
Italian bulldog
Fox terrier
Airedale
Pekingese
Dachshund
Chihuahua
Jack Russell Terrier
Australian Cattle Dog
American Cocker Spaniel
Beagle

No Pit Bulls, Staffies or supposed 'Dangerous' breeds.
I would say that unfortunately for these breeds, when they do bite, they have so much more power and therefore cause far more damage. This means that their cases are the only one reported in the media.

I worked in Boarding Kennels for years and have been bitten twice by dogs. One was a scruffy cross breed and the other was a Dalmatian. The breed we had the most problems with were various types of Collies.

Every dog has the propensity to bite, just because it has floppy ears doesn't mean it wouldn't rip your face off given have a chance. EVERY breed is Dangerous given the wrong training/upbringing/nature.

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My grandad bred Pit Bulls, and theres photos of me in a basket as a small child with pit bull pups. But I was never left unsupervised, and taught how to behave around dogs. Grandad had two theories - "Can't breed good from bad" and "What you breed, you can train". His thought was if you bred from good dogs, and then trained those good dogs, you were less likely to have problems than if you breed from bad (aggressive) dogs, and then don't train them
 
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Im affraid I disagree with the usual a poodle/lab/shih-tzu is jsut as likely to be aggressive and blahh blahh(of course some are little barstewards with bad attitudes, but they cannot cause the same amount of damage....nope, these dogs are bred for a purpose, much like a guard dog(will guard like it's life depends on it) and a greyhound will chase and kill a bunny it's in the blue print, they are in another league where damage and capability are concerned, I have seen the damage a whole range of dogs can do, there is a huge difference and yes terriers are fiesty eager and easy to bait on, but again they simply cannot take on something way over their own body weight and kill it in a small amount of time.


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I agree 100% I own a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel - bred to be a lap dog. Even if he did 'turn' (highly unlikely) he could not kill a toddler - he has a tiny mouth with weeny wee teeth and no upper body strength.

I bought a CKCS because I have young children.Some breeds are more suitable family pets than others.
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Some fantastic, well thought out and very sensible posts ( yours included brighthair), from people who know dogs and have an interest in safety. Why can our governments not listen to common sense?!
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After the tragic death in Liverpool of Ellie Lawrence, killed by IMHO a very scared and wound up pitbull at the time when fireworks were going off in great numbers, merseyside police rounded up in an amnesty many, many pitbulls. Instead of ordering their deaths the judge described the dogs as well behaved, none aggresive animals and the owners as decent people. She ordered the register be opened and the dogs be allowed to live within the rules laid out in the DDA. Insured, castrated, micro, tattoo, muzzle.
Prohibition of breeds is impossible to police. many of the answers for a new, sensible and workable law have been provided on this thread by normal people
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but who will listen
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If the dangerous dog act has failed to stop the spread of pitbulls and cross breeds then perhaps the only solution is to just not have any of them.. I know this would hit alot of ok dogs and decent owners but we need to face up to the fact that alot of these dogs are dangerous, for whatever reason and too many children are becoming victims.
Walk through areas in all of our cities now and ask yourself if you would like to live next door to some of these dogs - the bottom line has to be that we need to do something apart from trotting out the same excuses everytime...
 
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Some fantastic, well thought out and very sensible posts ( yours included brighthair), from people who know dogs and have an interest in safety. Why can our governments not listen to common sense?!
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After the tragic death in Liverpool of Ellie Lawrence, killed by IMHO a very scared and wound up pitbull at the time when fireworks were going off in great numbers, merseyside police rounded up in an amnesty many, many pitbulls. Instead of ordering their deaths the judge described the dogs as well behaved, none aggresive animals and the owners as decent people. She ordered the register be opened and the dogs be allowed to live within the rules laid out in the DDA. Insured, castrated, micro, tattoo, muzzle.
Prohibition of breeds is impossible to police. many of the answers for a new, sensible and workable law have been provided on this thread by normal people
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but who will listen
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well theres common sense and then there's people like a guy I saw on a bus. I was heading home, and he got on with a dog - very muscled and athletic and massive jaws. I kept looking at it, it wasn't muzzled and seemed well, not gentle put it that way!! I would, having been brought up with them say confidently that it was a pit bull. I felt very uncomfortable, the man didn't have much control over it, and I don't doubt if it had turned, he couldn't have done much
 
Well I'm glad someone has brought up the most important aspect which appears to be overlooked here by (respectable breeders/handlers who advocate well behaved dogs) - DOG FIGHTING!
Until something is done about the amount of illegal dog fighting (which is massive in inner-cities like Liverpool) then what can be done? It's like everything - if there is a market for these fighting dogs, then they will forever be bred -and kept hidden away - The type of person who owns these aggressive dogs WANTS them to be aggressive - it's a status symbol out on the streets in gangland
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These dogs are not only bred in this country they are being brought into the country for the purpose of dog fighting
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IMHO until this is brought under control then there will always be children dying in this cruel manner
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It sickens me to the core it really does
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Kate x
 
I haven't read all of these posts because someone on Page 1 said exactly what I thought when I heard this awful news. The type of people who are drawn to these dogs, to look "hard", are the type of people who can't be bothered to discipline their kids, so what chance does puppy have? That might sound controversial but i have witnessed it, a work colleague lives on an estate by me, every second person it seems has a staffie or staffie type and the estate has a real problem with school absconders and drugs. It seems to go hand in hand. I feel sad for the kid and desperate for the dogs who are brought up in these awful circumstances.
 
Ive just read on another forum where someones sister in law lives on the same street where the attack happened.

She says that the dog was called Uno and that it had already bitten someone in the street and thats why the housing association were called. Also three weeks before the attack the owner was in the street and commanded his dog 'kill it' and it went and killed a cat.

What chance did that poor young boy and the dog have
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Have any of you seen the dogs owner? The uncle of the little boy aged about 21? Don't have a go at me, but he 'looks' the sort to have a dog like 'Uno'. I really do think a big butch type dog is now as popular as street drugs, sadly.
 
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