A challenging horse....Nearly killed me! Second opinion?

[ycbm]

You have a huge strong ID horse which has bolted with you in an arena even though it won't canter on command in an arena, and you hacked it out in a plastic bit?

Please tell me you are joking with us.

If you are serious, then you really don't have the experience to deal with this horse, I'm sorry to say. Please give it up before it kills you.

 

[MrMuleMe]

Just to clarify on some assumptions here, I have spoken to the horses owner about the incident but plan to do so again. Preferably when I next go down. Other incidents I'm aware of is him breaking into another horses field, and him being left out overnight because he's been too difficult to get in. Neither of those events were to do with me but that's some background. But in defense of his owner, she never made out he was an easy and I was warned he had a buck. Though, I wasn't warned about him having a tendency to fly out of control. Given his background, I doubt it's just a 'me' thing.

However, as Shadowdancer rightly pointed out, I may have not been given the full picture. That's totally possible. I don't know enough about his working history other than the owner not having much time to get the best out of him. That could also mean "I'm too scared to ride him" or it could be "He's great but just needs to shake off the rust as I'm too busy to get him out". But I do want to speak to the owner again before I completely throw in the towel. In terms of my own progress with him I've had very good feedback from the owner regarding his improved fitness. His shape has also improved. I can also get a fantastic walk-trot transition on the bit.

I did also work up to the hack. It's not like one day I had a moment of epiphany and decided I'm just going to take him on a hack, as if eureka! I've built up to it. I've hacked him out after schooling to the end of the drive way and back a couple of times and he's been perfectly sensible. What I did was just a small increment by going to the end of the next track and back. All in small steps. It's just a pity that what happened despite his improvements.

Also, I am assertive with him and do set up boundaries. If he cuts corners in the school, I bring him around. If he slows back to a walk, I kick him on. If he puts his head down to the grass, I yank his head back up. If he's plants his feet, I will rock him off them and get him moving. I re-do as much as I can until I'm satisfied. But again, it's all work and I didn't anticipate I'd need to retrain a horse from scratch. As rightly pointed out, this is a professional job that requires time, commitment and substantial effort. All of which I'd be happy to do if he was my own horse. He isn't, he's on full loan to his owner.

What I do accept is I am somewhat spoilt by my old share. She was forward going, bomb proof and predictable to the extent she was almost a physical extension of me. In a happy mouth straight bit, mind you. It was unreal. It took several years to get there of course, and in the early days she bronco'ed me off. Whilst he's dangerous, what she did was essentially attack me and that's very sinister. It took years to get to where I got with her. That's why I feel like a wally giving up, I've never gotten anywhere with horses by giving up. I will never be one of those types who is endlessly pushing horses from pillar to post on facebook, horsemart or whatever. But if the alternative is becoming a quadriplegic, then fine. I accept it's time to move on.

 

[honetpot]

You have a huge strong ID horse which has bolted with you in an arena even though it won't canter on command in an arena, and you hacked it out in a plastic bit?

Please tell me you are joking with us.

If you are serious, then you really don't have the experience to deal with this horse, I'm sorry to say. Please give it up before it kills you.

I being negative but I have to agree with the quote above.
A lot of riding is about being able to predict what a horse is likely to do and either avoid the situation or put in place safeguards that defuses the situation. Judging by your last reply, no matter how well you ride you do not have the mental tools to spot trouble brewing. If in doubt you treat every horse like a newly backed one and do not put your self in the situation where it has an option to do something wrong.
I was very lucky, I made most of my c**kups when I was young on small ponies with no harm done to them or me. I would get your friend to pay someone who rides at least six horses a day to asses it.

 

[ycbm]

OP you posted this four months ago, in August, three months before you took on this horse. At what point since then, and how, did you gain the kind of confidence that is required to deal with a horse like the one you are describing?

I put a posting up on an internet group (don't want to be too specific here!) and got a bunch of responses which was quite amazing. Anyway, I responded to someone based on locality. Few basic details exchanged, I turn up. Horse turns out to be very, very green. I nearly get bucked off on the road by it - fortunately I know how to sit out bucking broco's so got my bearings together. Stuck with it and yes with some guidance I got the horse settled down but was still pretty jittery myself after that.

So despite all that and having back and that's still very sore as is my confidence somewhat. I can't help but think should I be asking money to go through all that? Money hasn't been mentioned, and I've no idea how I would frame that question....

 

[KittenInTheTree]

So to recap, you're sharing a big lump of a horse, who more than knows his own strength, and is bright enough to have gotten the measure of you within about eight or ten rides at most, since it's a two day per week share.

You are afraid to put your foot down with him on the ground in case he pushes back. (The horse knows this too, don't kid yourself about that. He probably finds such nervousness concerning, but then again, it does mean that he can act out without repercussions.)

You feel sorry for him because he lives out and is rarely worked. (Again, the horse knows this, but he's probably bemused since living out on minimal work is really quite nice in his opinion.)

This big, clever, horse is also bitted with a small piece of plastic, because, reasons. (Well who is the horse to object to that?)

Please stay off the roads and away from other public areas. Tanking off towards home and ignoring you is hardly bolting, but other people still have the right to not be involved in an accident that never needs to happen

 

[rowan666]

WOW! MMM, if you were my sharer I would be livid with this thread.

A horse that is not in constant daily work is hardly a neglect case - just because you might choose a different regime does not make it wrong. Sounds like the horse is being allowed to be a horse!

And you're absolutely right, "telling people what they should do or not do with their horses goes down like a lead balloon." Not one person on this thread has suggested you provide the owner with your solution - they've all told you to ask for the owners solution! The fact you are having problems with this horse but aren't telling the owner about it suggests you are not well suited to this share arrangement.

I would not be handling this horse again without a frank conversation with the owner that currently you can not cope with him and need their help, support and advice to overcome it. If you do not wish to have that conversation and take on board their ideas I would walk away, yesterday.

^^Could not agree more!! I cannot believe you actually used the word neglect!! Just because you aren't experienced enough to deal with said horse and either too egotistical or embaressed to ask the owner for advice you start shouting abuse!! Absolutely beyond comprehension. My advise now would be to give up this share and buy your own horse, preferably of the rocking variety.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I guess I will be the first to say then that I would stop riding this horse, unless you get some serious help.

Saying that you can't get his head up from grass would be a warning bell, but having a horse bolt, then just give up on pulling up means I think you are in grave danger.

So, I would either get serious help, or stop riding this horse. I also echo others, where was the owner, how to they get on, have you told them, and what do they suggest?

Tbh if I were the owner of this horse, I would not want you to share it.
My philosophy is that every time you handle/ride a horse you should improve it in some way. Unfortunately,OP, it sounds as if you are letting it get away with murder. Why on earth haven't you stopped the planting in hand? No wonder it ran off with you.
Please make sure that you discuss this fully with the owner.

 

[OWLIE185]

Your life is far more important that this horse which is clearly dangerous and could give you some serious permanent life changing injuries.
This horse should not be ridden by anyone apart from a professional who would be paid to do so and hopefully be able to sort this horse out.
If the horse can not be sorted out then a decision will have to be made about it's future.

 

[L&M]

My second opinion for what it is worth - I would be looking for another horse to share.

Life is too short to sort out someone else's horses' problems......

 

[Puzzled]

Lead him in a chifney and never go on a hack unless it's a circular route until you are completely confident. I'd also probably 'up' the brakes if he's only in a snaffle at the moment.

 

[highlandponygirl]

My second opinion for what it is worth - I would be looking for another horse to share.

Life is too short to sort out someone else's horses' problems......

Agree, some problems are not yours to fix.

I too would not get back on this horse. And I think it was poor judgement from you to hack this horse out knowing its schooling/behaviour was a concern, you are very lucky the outcome wasn't much worse. If you insist on sticking with him though, I would seek professional help on groundwork/manners before attempting to get back on, and I wouldn't even considering hacking again until I was confident enough that he (and you as the rider) would not be responsible for hurting someone. You can choose to get on him and ride him regardless and both of you get hurt, but it is really irresponisble and unfair puting others at risk.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Lead him in a chifney and never go on a hack unless it's a circular route until you are completely confident. I'd also probably 'up' the brakes if he's only in a snaffle at the moment.

Please don't advise the use of a chifney to a clearly inexperienced person. A chifney is a serious piece of kit.

The OP is out of her depth with this horse, so best not encourage her to proceed with him. It is likely to end up in death and/or serious injury if she carries on.

 

[paddi22]

Lead him in a chifney and never go on a hack unless it's a circular route until you are completely confident. I'd also probably 'up' the brakes if he's only in a snaffle at the moment.

A chifney in the wrong hands can be dangerous and isn't the best advice for the op. and bitting up a horse like this isn't the issue, chances are a stronger bit could lead to the horse rearing or the like. The horse could have the strongest bit in the world and still be planting, bucking and acting up.

The type of rider and handler this horse needs isn't the one who needs to go on a forum to ask for advice.

The OP cannot win in this situation - if the owner is useless and have encouraged bad habits then 2 days a week is no use if the owner just undoes it again. The owner sounds completely idiotic letting a stranger ride a horse that bucks on the road, she was lucky op wasn't seriously injured. The whole situation sounds like a disaster waiting to happen and op is lucky she hasn't been injured.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I'm amazed you havent talked to the owner about this. If you were my sharer and having issues i would be really angry you hadnt discussed them with me. I dont think you realise just how dangerous and deadly this bolting incident could have been!

I agree with this.
I also don't mean to be offensive but I wonder if the horse is just too much for you. Just a few things you've said scream inexperience to me, I'm surprised no-one else has said the same tbh
I'd walk from this one if I were you op and find something you can enjoy as that's what riding should be about

 

[poiuytrewq]

You have a huge strong ID horse which has bolted with you in an arena even though it won't canter on command in an arena, and you hacked it out in a plastic bit?

Please tell me you are joking with us.

If you are serious, then you really don't have the experience to deal with this horse, I'm sorry to say. Please give it up before it kills you.

Missed this comment.
This is one of the comments I mean. You ride in a plastic bit, regular noseband and throatlash??

 

[ester]

I had a novice sharer who told me of a couple of minor incidents and I advised appropriately, mostly don't stand for it he knows how to behave! But overall I trusted the pony not to do anything too ridiculous and he never did. If I thought for an minute that they would end up out of control on a public road it would have been stopped immediately?

Now you say the owner has this horse on loan? I am even more surprised they are then ok risking an accident with a 3rd party.

Go find another horse, plenty of simpler ones about

 

[AmyMay]

OP, do you have public liability insurance?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I agree with this.
I also don't mean to be offensive but I wonder if the horse is just too much for you. Just a few things you've said scream inexperience to me, I'm surprised no-one else has said the same tbh
I'd walk from this one if I were you op and find something you can enjoy as that's what riding should be about

I think quite a few posters did say so but perhaps not in so many words!

Anyone who consistently has trouble leading a horse and thinks turning round said horse, that they are having trouble with in the school, after a 15 min hack, is obviously very inexperienced. And the references to the horse's size remind me very much of the RDA rider with LD of my acquaintance - whom I would not expect to be able to deal with this horse ("it's a big'un!").

 

[Bens_Mum]

There could be so much going on here.

Being unkeen to be ridden/ caught, not wanting to canter and the napping could be a physical problem potentially or at least partially one. Has the horse seen physio etc is its tack properly fitted?

Clearly there is a lot going on and a probably time consuming problem to resolve. The bitting/ noseband etc seems bonkers. Why is the person loaning it sharing it? Why not send it back that in itself doesn't make sense to me.. It's not their horse to find another rider for? Does the owner know?

For me I would walk well away. Getting on a horse with this sort of behaviour knowing it's only ridden two days a week isn't something I would be keen on and I don't see how progress would be made like that either.

 

[rachk89]

Sorry but even big horses like that can be taught to listen. I frequently take out a large warmblood/draught type horse to the field that most don't like leading as he can be pushy. But he isn't with me as he knows to listen to me. I don't have to use force I just say his name in a growling voice and he stops being an idiot. He will drag people around or start rearing if wanting his own way but he knows that isn't allowed with me. I actually quite like him he is quirky.

Talk to the owner about it since you are struggling. There isn't much more you can do he isn't yours.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I think quite a few posters did say so but perhaps not in so many words!

Anyone who consistently has trouble leading a horse and thinks turning round said horse, that they are having trouble with in the school, after a 15 min hack, is obviously very inexperienced. And the references to the horse's size remind me very much of the RDA rider with LD of my acquaintance - whom I would not expect to be able to deal with this horse ("it's a big'un!").

Duh! Sorry, I'm used to people being so blunt sometimes on here I didn't see it 😂

 

[jumping.jack_flash]

Not to pointing any fingers at the person who started this thread, and it was very good of them to do so - to reach out to a wider audience for advice, but this is why I couldn't get a sharer or loan my horse out - because I wouldn't want anyone being hurt and coming back to me, if something had gone wrong from riding / to leading in from the field.

Also.... my hairy monster would try it on..... he's great in traffic - double decker buses, train, traffic in general (including idiots beeping horns going past fast)... and we even have got over mobility scooters! BUT... squirrels, pigeons ...and birds going up the lane with a worm in the mouth .. is a big issue.. and if you watch his ears - you know he is thinking about how to make the ride more lively.... he's caught me out ...

 

[tristar]

well been there seen it all before, here we go again.

can certainly say one thing to start and that is, i know of no physical ailment that causes a horse to put its head down and eat grass and pull its leader about, perhaps its a new syndrome?

it shows every sign of being too intelligent, too underworked, too undertrained and is probably totally sissed of off with silly humans

i feel sorry for the op who has inherited the problems of all the incompetent handlers this horse had previously.

incompetent or irresponsible for not doing something about themselves and letting the horse get to this age without correcting THIER approach to this poor animal.

 

[Red-1]

well been there seen it all before, here we go again.

can certainly say one thing to start and that is, i know of no physical ailment that causes a horse to put its head down and eat grass and pull its leader about, perhaps its a new syndrome?

it shows every sign of being too intelligent, too underworked, too undertrained and is probably totally sissed of off with silly humans

i feel sorry for the op who has inherited the problems of all the incompetent handlers this horse had previously.

incompetent or irresponsible for not doing something about themselves and letting the horse get to this age without correcting THIER approach to this poor animal.

I agree that eating while being led is a thing unlikely to be brought about by a physical ailment, other than greed. However, I cannot agree that from what has been said on this thread, that the owner is necessarily guilty of anything other than falling for a person who bigs up their experience, but who is not as competent as they say.

OH's Charlie Horse was a dude, polite and easy. I cannot express what a saint the horse was. But, we had an inexperienced person come and share him, and after a while he too thought it was funny to put his head down to eat. Then he started to buck into canter.

The horse was still well behaved for us, but was an intelligent IDX and had the other bloke over a barrel!

I do think the owner could keep better tabs on what is happening, and maybe the horse has been near neglected for years, as OP suggests, but on the evidence on this thread I also think it is a possibility that OP is simply not experienced enough to be in charge of this particular horse.

As an owner I would have been furious if the person sharing OH's horse had posted on a forum rather than ask us to be there to witness said behaviour, which was easily sorted.

 

[tristar]

its the responsibility of the owner to find out and know what is going on with this horse, and supervise the animals welfare.

 

[ycbm]

I agree that eating while being led is a thing unlikely to be brought about by a physical ailment, other than greed. However, I cannot agree that from what has been said on this thread, that the owner is necessarily guilty of anything other than falling for a person who bigs up their experience, but who is not as competent as they say.

OH's Charlie Horse was a dude, polite and easy. I cannot express what a saint the horse was. But, we had an inexperienced person come and share him, and after a while he too thought it was funny to put his head down to eat. Then he started to buck into canter.

The horse was still well behaved for us, but was an intelligent IDX and had the other bloke over a barrel!

I do think the owner could keep better tabs on what is happening, and maybe the horse has been near neglected for years, as OP suggests, but on the evidence on this thread I also think it is a possibility that OP is simply not experienced enough to be in charge of this particular horse.

As an owner I would have been furious if the person sharing OH's horse had posted on a forum rather than ask us to be there to witness said behaviour, which was easily sorted.

Quite. OP posted three months ago about being physically damaged and having lost her confidence. A few weeks later she took on this horse, and it sounds like it's got the measure of her, unfortunately.

 

[Red-1]

its the responsibility of the owner to find out and know what is going on with this horse, and supervise the animals welfare.

On this point I agree with you totally, just not sure you can say that :-

"feel sorry for the op who has inherited the problems of all the incompetent handlers this horse had previously.

incompetent or irresponsible for not doing something about themselves and letting the horse get to this age without correcting THIER approach to this poor animal."

is necessarily fair or evidenced.

 

[tristar]

who said life is fair?, just look around to see how many horses are let down in their training.

i can say what i see because i have two eyes in my head.

this is forum not court of law

 

[YorksG]

When we first got our old appy she was rude and pushy, we worked on her and her ground manners became impeccable, about 15 years into our ownership of her we employed someone to turn out for us in the mornings, and then every weekend had to re-instill her ground manners. She was obviously being allowed to do as she pleased during the week, by someone who believed herself to be experienced enough to freelance groom, but who really was only experienced with horses who were easy going by nature. The arrangement was quite quickly terminated! If I were the owner of the horse in the OP that arrangement would end.

 

[beginner_rider]

Sharing is supposed to be fun! i think it really depends on what kind of person you are, if it truly hasnt put you off, then continue (If you arent already then I suggest get yourself insured!) but if I were you I would definitely look for something else. he doesnt really sound like he has many redeeming qualities! There are a lot of horses out there at the minute for part loan and I bet a lot of them arent dangerous! Imagine if he had bolted on a road straight round a corner into a car not worth it IMO, good luck with whatever you decide