Chloe_GHE
Well-Known Member
I just googled him look what the 1st result was!!!! Ouch!
A few thoughts, re my post on Muschamp Impalla
- Thread starter wizoz
- Start date
kerilli
Well-Known Member
unbelievable, that makes that fence look so small!
kerilli
Well-Known Member
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and just to throw in another thought - I thought AN's other ride at Pau - the chestnut (was it Ginger May Killinghurst??) was very very scary XC at Pau - just watch that replayed on hctv...
La la la back in my box
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Hmm well the other horse he rode at Pau in 08 was Henry Tankerville which is a dark bay!?
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Ah, yes... i thought he was on MI instead watching it, it did leave a leg rather horribly at the duck in the water, or clamber over it, i can just remember gasping watching it.
he does run them in a certain way which sometimes looks v chancy, i think. whereas certain riders never look as if they're hurrying and yet magically get the time, he does look as if he's chasing the clock.
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and just to throw in another thought - I thought AN's other ride at Pau - the chestnut (was it Ginger May Killinghurst??) was very very scary XC at Pau - just watch that replayed on hctv...
La la la back in my box
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Hmm well the other horse he rode at Pau in 08 was Henry Tankerville which is a dark bay!?
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Ah, yes... i thought he was on MI instead watching it, it did leave a leg rather horribly at the duck in the water, or clamber over it, i can just remember gasping watching it.
he does run them in a certain way which sometimes looks v chancy, i think. whereas certain riders never look as if they're hurrying and yet magically get the time, he does look as if he's chasing the clock.
Baydale
Well-Known Member
I think that all the coverage of Pau made them look like they were chasing the clock K, but isn't that the course designer's - was it Pierre Michelet? - and the French way anyway? I know you're talking about AN generally but I think he just looks a bit more "loose" than a lot of other riders....mind you, when you have his stickability it hardly matters.
Re the OP I would say A). The horse's heart has got to be in it for top level stuff; there is no way you want to be coming to a 4 star fence on something that's not committed and a bit iffy about it all.
However, if its heart is in it and it's genuine yet lacks self-preservation, that's an accident waiting to happen no matter how skilful the rider is.
4 star horses are few and far between so you can see the motivation for people to take MI on, but it's not like he's been ridden by numpties so far is it? It must take more strength of character to say "no thanks, I can't get on with that horse" than it does to say "ok, I'll have a go".....I'm thinking Ginny Elliott and Murphy Himself as an example.
Re the OP I would say A). The horse's heart has got to be in it for top level stuff; there is no way you want to be coming to a 4 star fence on something that's not committed and a bit iffy about it all.
4 star horses are few and far between so you can see the motivation for people to take MI on, but it's not like he's been ridden by numpties so far is it? It must take more strength of character to say "no thanks, I can't get on with that horse" than it does to say "ok, I'll have a go".....I'm thinking Ginny Elliott and Murphy Himself as an example.
jellybaby
Well-Known Member
Didn't beanie sturgis have the same issue with Monarchs Rock - remember hearing her on horsehero about how she took it hunting, and then left it to it XC, it clouted a few then suddeny realised that it needed to help out too?!
MI is a nice horse, but doesn't look as 'polished' as some of the classic horeses.....
JB xx
MI is a nice horse, but doesn't look as 'polished' as some of the classic horeses.....
JB xx
kerilli
Well-Known Member
gotta love anyone who is still on meds and yet can get their apostrophes spot on, every time. it's, its, it's, that's, he's... nice one.
sorry, i get so numb to terrible syntax and terrible spelling on here that my pedant's hat has been sat on for far too long!
i might have a little quibble about "skilful" though...!
yes, i can see your point about Pau, even Touzaint looked a bit chancy to me.
totally agree about 4* horses, esp ones that can lead the dressage. not many of those up for grabs.
I heard that Ginny always regretted swapping Murphy. i don't think Ian rode him better than her, he was just naturally braver (crazier?!) so prepared to let the horse have 95% control (if not more!) whereas Ginny was used to having a LOT more say and seriously uncomfortable with less. i shall never forget seeing him bounce the road crossing (was it at the Worlds?), when every other (top) horse had done 1 or mostly 2 strides, and he landed and just launched... jeez. you had to have watched all the others to get the magnitude of that horse's total nonchalance, bravery and scope. i doubt we'll ever see another like him. talk about other end of the spectrum to MI.
sorry, i get so numb to terrible syntax and terrible spelling on here that my pedant's hat has been sat on for far too long!
i might have a little quibble about "skilful" though...!
yes, i can see your point about Pau, even Touzaint looked a bit chancy to me.
totally agree about 4* horses, esp ones that can lead the dressage. not many of those up for grabs.
I heard that Ginny always regretted swapping Murphy. i don't think Ian rode him better than her, he was just naturally braver (crazier?!) so prepared to let the horse have 95% control (if not more!) whereas Ginny was used to having a LOT more say and seriously uncomfortable with less. i shall never forget seeing him bounce the road crossing (was it at the Worlds?), when every other (top) horse had done 1 or mostly 2 strides, and he landed and just launched... jeez. you had to have watched all the others to get the magnitude of that horse's total nonchalance, bravery and scope. i doubt we'll ever see another like him. talk about other end of the spectrum to MI.
Baydale
Well-Known Member
"skilful" doesn't look right, I know, and in North America it would be "skillful" apparently....whatever, the pedant's hat suits you and I'm on drugs so I doubt we'll fall out about it.
Murphy Himself was an exceptional horse but Ian and Ginny's styles were relatively polar opposites. I'm trying to think of another more recent example but can't, I'm just not geeky enough, sorry.
Murphy Himself was an exceptional horse but Ian and Ginny's styles were relatively polar opposites. I'm trying to think of another more recent example but can't, I'm just not geeky enough, sorry.
kerilli
Well-Known Member
Metronome? Pippa apparently hated its "jumping by braille" attitude and spideryness over fences, but AN got on great with it, just sat v v tight while it did its best danglyspider impersonation, and didn't seem worried by it.
umm, can't think of any others offhand where a top rider has said "no, i can't get on with that horse."
umm, can't think of any others offhand where a top rider has said "no, i can't get on with that horse."
Fiona
Well-Known Member
Was it not Cartoon (who went from Pippa to AN).
Fiona
Fiona
kerilli
Well-Known Member
oh, oops, maybe it was. thanks! i'm obv not a geek either then!
Fiona
Well-Known Member
She rode it at Punchestown (prob why I remember).
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zero
Well-Known Member
Might be way off the mark but in 2007 Ruth was training MI as a pure dressage horse. Then when she lost both her top horses to leg trouble brought him back to eventing then. Havent most of his falls been since then. If this is the case then surely this suggests that high level dressage and the obedience needed for it slows the horses reactions and lessens their ability to think for themselves. Like I say might be way of the mark but other than gatcombe he always completed the xc before he did his leg in 2005.
kerilli
Well-Known Member
ah, i didn't know that. very good point.
i doubt it affected his basic jumping style (which is usually good with the odd horrible exception when he forgets what to do with his knees) but it might well have affected his brain and his ability to think fast and, if necessary, take the initiative. good xc horses do this, i've seen lots of good horses (and sat on a few) who would pull themselves straight to a corner or skinny, improvise striding, etc, instantly and effectively. and then not hold it against or doubt the rider at the next fence, which is essential!
there are a lot of stories of horses trained to high-level dressage which lost the ability to think for themselves. the introduction of 2 time changes at 4* level is, imho, a very very bad idea. i sincerely hope it does not have any repercussions.
i doubt it affected his basic jumping style (which is usually good with the odd horrible exception when he forgets what to do with his knees) but it might well have affected his brain and his ability to think fast and, if necessary, take the initiative. good xc horses do this, i've seen lots of good horses (and sat on a few) who would pull themselves straight to a corner or skinny, improvise striding, etc, instantly and effectively. and then not hold it against or doubt the rider at the next fence, which is essential!
there are a lot of stories of horses trained to high-level dressage which lost the ability to think for themselves. the introduction of 2 time changes at 4* level is, imho, a very very bad idea. i sincerely hope it does not have any repercussions.
Halfstep
Well-Known Member
MI had an injury, can't remember what, but they thought he'd not event again, but it healed better than expected, apparently. That's why he did pure dressage only in 07. Zero's supposition still holds though - interesting!!!!!
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BBs
Well-Known Member
Interesting take Zero.
I wonder (okay there are exceptions to the rule obviously) if that is why, most horses who are just fanastic jumpers, and will do anything to get to a fence, jump it cleanly and well - no matter what spot theyve been put into are such shite dressage horses??
I think Im gonna keep on jumping if it means all this stressage is gonna make his lordship a slow brained dumblood... thats all i need *rolls eyes*
I wonder (okay there are exceptions to the rule obviously) if that is why, most horses who are just fanastic jumpers, and will do anything to get to a fence, jump it cleanly and well - no matter what spot theyve been put into are such shite dressage horses??
I think Im gonna keep on jumping if it means all this stressage is gonna make his lordship a slow brained dumblood... thats all i need *rolls eyes*
wizoz
Well-Known Member
My old boy absolutely HATED dressage with a passion, in fact he went over backwards with me once and bucked me off once whilst working on the flat, after that, I never bothered working on the flat, just rode him in a de Gogue so I could work his neck muscles, hence my awful scores but MAN could he jump
Baydale
Well-Known Member
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Was it not Cartoon (who went from Pippa to AN).
Fiona
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Ok, so I am a geek.
It was Cartoon, aka "Leggy"For obvious reasons), I think.
Metronome was the most beautiful horse, looked like a real quality show hunter. Always one that had the "wow" factor.
Was it not Cartoon (who went from Pippa to AN).
Fiona
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Ok, so I am a geek.
Metronome was the most beautiful horse, looked like a real quality show hunter. Always one that had the "wow" factor.
wizoz
Well-Known Member
I read that Cartoon only went to Andrew because he was too strong for Pippa. I think it was in Andrew's book?
Eventerlad15
Well-Known Member
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I would send it back to Ruth Edge to be a full time dressage horse, its already done a few PSGs and that is where its talent lies IMHO. Its never going to be a world beater at dressage but probably could go to the nationals, and at least it isn't going to kill anyone (or itself) doing that.
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I don't think she ever wanted to sit on it again after Badders..
Even at Burghley it looked unsafe at the water, AND it fell at Pau 4* in 2007 too.
I would send it back to Ruth Edge to be a full time dressage horse, its already done a few PSGs and that is where its talent lies IMHO. Its never going to be a world beater at dressage but probably could go to the nationals, and at least it isn't going to kill anyone (or itself) doing that.
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I don't think she ever wanted to sit on it again after Badders..
Even at Burghley it looked unsafe at the water, AND it fell at Pau 4* in 2007 too.
kerilli
Well-Known Member
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My old boy absolutely HATED dressage with a passion, in fact he went over backwards with me once and bucked me off once whilst working on the flat, after that, I never bothered working on the flat, just rode him in a de Gogue so I could work his neck muscles, hence my awful scores but MAN could he jump
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my grey was the same, she physically found it very uncomfortable to go on the bit, and i had to be the most tactful person on the planet to get a tolerable test out of her (party tricks: kick me on the instep if asked to rein back. threaten to rear and bounce up and down if asked to go sideways. judges at A level loved that, and also her celebrated "wooden giraffe" impersonation.)
she could not be schooled around jumps, ever, because she spent every moment eyeing them up and trying to work out which one she was going to be allowed to jump first!
she was the most phenomenal xc horse i will probably ever be privileged enough to ride. totally rideable, quick-thinking, forgiving... she LOVED her jumping.
My old boy absolutely HATED dressage with a passion, in fact he went over backwards with me once and bucked me off once whilst working on the flat, after that, I never bothered working on the flat, just rode him in a de Gogue so I could work his neck muscles, hence my awful scores but MAN could he jump
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my grey was the same, she physically found it very uncomfortable to go on the bit, and i had to be the most tactful person on the planet to get a tolerable test out of her (party tricks: kick me on the instep if asked to rein back. threaten to rear and bounce up and down if asked to go sideways. judges at A level loved that, and also her celebrated "wooden giraffe" impersonation.)
she could not be schooled around jumps, ever, because she spent every moment eyeing them up and trying to work out which one she was going to be allowed to jump first!
she was the most phenomenal xc horse i will probably ever be privileged enough to ride. totally rideable, quick-thinking, forgiving... she LOVED her jumping.
Skhosu
Well-Known Member
I'm quite convinced that the riders this horse has are more than experienced to know whether or not they feel safe going xc on it. I don't think it is up to us to decide it's not safe.
kerilli
Well-Known Member
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I'm quite convinced that the riders this horse has are more than experienced to know whether or not they feel safe going xc on it. I don't think it is up to us to decide it's not safe.
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hmm, i'd like to know whether Ruth Edge or Andrew Nicholson consider it safe to ride xc.
I'm quite convinced that the riders this horse has are more than experienced to know whether or not they feel safe going xc on it. I don't think it is up to us to decide it's not safe.
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hmm, i'd like to know whether Ruth Edge or Andrew Nicholson consider it safe to ride xc.
Skhosu
Well-Known Member
have they said otherwise?
zero
Well-Known Member
I believe (and again could be way off the mark) but the reason Ruth sold the horse to AN (she and her husband owned him) was that shed lost confidence in him.
I agree re the great xc bad dressage comment. My mare is awesome to jump very very quick and clever with it. Eyes things up whereever we go. But she hates flat work. Hoping that shell go advanced but will have a lot of work to get the dressage anywhere near good.
I agree re the great xc bad dressage comment. My mare is awesome to jump very very quick and clever with it. Eyes things up whereever we go. But she hates flat work. Hoping that shell go advanced but will have a lot of work to get the dressage anywhere near good.
kerilli
Well-Known Member
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have they said otherwise?
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well, i'd say they've voted with their feet by not riding the horse any more!
have they said otherwise?
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well, i'd say they've voted with their feet by not riding the horse any more!
Eventerlad15
Well-Known Member
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I believe (and again could be way off the mark) but the reason Ruth sold the horse to AN (she and her husband owned him) was that shed lost confidence in him.
I agree re the great xc bad dressage comment. My mare is awesome to jump very very quick and clever with it. Eyes things up whereever we go. But she hates flat work. Hoping that shell go advanced but will have a lot of work to get the dressage anywhere near good.
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I think you are right about Ruth, she got groom to event it after Badminton.
I believe (and again could be way off the mark) but the reason Ruth sold the horse to AN (she and her husband owned him) was that shed lost confidence in him.
I agree re the great xc bad dressage comment. My mare is awesome to jump very very quick and clever with it. Eyes things up whereever we go. But she hates flat work. Hoping that shell go advanced but will have a lot of work to get the dressage anywhere near good.
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I think you are right about Ruth, she got groom to event it after Badminton.
Skhosu
Well-Known Member
horses cange riders all the time, I think it's very unfair to say they thought he was dangerous, wasn't andrew nicholson getting slated on here a while ago for being an insensitive rider or something similar, yet now he's great? Plenty of the horses move about, some more than others particularly the non actual winners of the 4*'s, I just think that these riders riding at that level are sure to know what they feel safe on, and I don't think its our place to on a public forum say this re: what could possibly be someone's pride and joy when nobody appears to actually have any idea why AN gave him up other that speculation.
Skhosu
Well-Known Member
I would add as well, Ruth rode it for 7 years, AN for 4 months, thats a lot fewer riders than plenty of the top horses have had, I think it would be best left up to them to decide if its worth running or not.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Tristan is a really nice guy and could do with a decent horse so fingers crossed it pulls its knees up!
wizoz
Well-Known Member
I think you are being quite sensitive about this issue so could it be assumed that you have connections with the horse?
Things are said and speculated every day, we are allowed opinions and that is what has been given here, our own opinions. I'm sure if you went up to Andrew and asked him why he doesn't ride the horse anymore, he'd give you a very straight and honest answer.
In fact I'll ask his ex mother in law when I see her, she's bound to know.
Things are said and speculated every day, we are allowed opinions and that is what has been given here, our own opinions. I'm sure if you went up to Andrew and asked him why he doesn't ride the horse anymore, he'd give you a very straight and honest answer.
In fact I'll ask his ex mother in law when I see her, she's bound to know.