A little annoyed

[fatpiggy]

My advice is don't take it so seriously! It is riding club, not Wembley. The worse judging I ever experienced was in a area show. The judge openly stated that those of us on the chestnuts (4 of us) could go to the end of the line up or leave the ring as he didn't like chestnuts. One of them was an ex-HOYS qualifier. My horse is retired now, but even when I used to compete at the riding club shows, I went with the attitude that it was a nice day out, a chance to catch up with people and that I had the loveliest horse on the field, and if the judge couldn't see that, then that was their hard luck. To view it from the other side though, my horse was well known as a fruitcake in the ring. We entered the equitation class as usual and she was her usual hyper self. But we one the class. When I asked the judge (who had seen us several times before during the season, so knew this was normal behaviour for my horse) why we had beaten everyone, she replied that although my horse hadn't gone well, I had done everything she had asked me to, coped with my mare's antics and shown that I could ride. In comparison she said, the other horses were push-button rides. I'm willing to bet the other competitors were pretty mad though.

 

[Hannah1Pie]

Wow now, i posted this because i didnt understand how a pony made a bad performance and still beat me, can i just outline now that I WAS VERY PROUD OF MY 4TH PLACE, i am not jealous I do not regulally get annoyed with judges because they place me below a certain place... i just didnt understand why she got higher than me, now in my own opinion i have never seen a horse (like the one that beat me) in a hunter class before its confirmation was NOT that of a hunter. I also did double check with the people i know because i had some doubts as to if i should enter him into the class and they said it was a good idea.

Also IT WAS A SMALL SHOW so please dont get upset with me coz i entered my 'cob' into a hunter class

 

[arwenplusone]

[ QUOTE ]
I find that a lot of people who don't get placed immediately look for another reason - I have been to so many shows where people come out the ring with a 3rd, and just because they didn't get 2nd, the judge is corrupt/knows the rider/is sleeping with the riders father.

I'm afraid you went showing and it is the judges OPINION on the day - if you can't accept the judges opinion then you shouldn't be showing. We've all been to shows where we are unplaced for seemingly no reason, and you just have to say "Oh well, judge didn't like my horse, won't go under her again" rather than leaping on the judges for being corrupt. From what you are saying your horse sounds like a cob, and if it is a cob then no matter what it is not a hunter and a hunter type (and this can just mean a finer horse with a 'prettier' head, something that looks more like a hunter) so most judges will not place you. Fair enough to go into the class because there is nothing else to do, but you cannot moan if you don't get placed above the hunter type horses.

I hate people saying how crap showing is and how bent the judges are when there is more often than not a proper reason for you being placed where you were.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree with this.

everyone thinks their horse is special, so there is always going to be disappointment when they are not pulled in and placed up the line. Saying that it is because of nepotism to me is just sour grapes, regardless of whether it is tru or not.

At the end of the day the judge is looking for a type. Your horse could be the most stunning example of his breed but if that isn't the typ ethat the judge has in mind then you won't win. Simples

 

[skewbaldpony]

[ QUOTE ]
I find that a lot of people who don't get placed immediately look for another reason - I have been to so many shows where people come out the ring with a 3rd, and just because they didn't get 2nd, the judge is corrupt/knows the rider/is sleeping with the riders father.

I'm afraid you went showing and it is the judges OPINION on the day - if you can't accept the judges opinion then you shouldn't be showing. We've all been to shows where we are unplaced for seemingly no reason, and you just have to say "Oh well, judge didn't like my horse, won't go under her again" rather than leaping on the judges for being corrupt. From what you are saying your horse sounds like a cob, and if it is a cob then no matter what it is not a hunter and a hunter type (and this can just mean a finer horse with a 'prettier' head, something that looks more like a hunter) so most judges will not place you. Fair enough to go into the class because there is nothing else to do, but you cannot moan if you don't get placed above the hunter type horses.

I hate people saying how crap showing is and how bent the judges are when there is more often than not a proper reason for you being placed where you were.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lovely. However completely contradicted by someone who judges herself, further upthread.

I am sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and some judges are better than others, but to say there is no corruption in judging? You'll be saying MPs don't fiddle their expenses, next!

 

[latottwirl]

I didn't say there is no corruption in judging. I am completely aware of what goes on, and have seen it happening. However, what I was sayng is that there is not corruption at every show, and just because you don't get a good place doesn' mean the judging was bent.

I am a judge. I have judged at small shows where you get a whole mix of animals in classes, and I have judged at qualifying shows with the best of the best. So I do know what goes on thanks.

I completely understand OP that this was not actually what you were talking about and you are pleased with your place, just wondering why. I'm just replying to those who say it was probably bent judging, which it probably was not.

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
but to say there is no corruption in judging? You'll be saying MPs don't fiddle their expenses, next!

[/ QUOTE ] If you read her post again, she did not say that at all! She said that a lot of people automatically blame the judge for being corrupt, when the decision is not what they want to hear. That is not the same as saying there are no corrupt judges.

 

[skewbaldpony]

[ QUOTE ]
My advice is don't take it so seriously! It is riding club, not Wembley.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure the OP is necessarily taking it that seriously.

Surely she can say she was a bit fed up, whether it was Wembley or not?!

 

[skewbaldpony]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just replying to those who say it was probably bent judging, which it probably was not.

[/ QUOTE ]

surely as none of us was there, there's no knowing whether it 'probably' was or not?!

I'd say this thread makes a few points -

You can't expect a cob to win a hunter class

A show class is not a performance class

Some judges are bent

Some judges aren't

You have good days and bad days

Some judges should have guide dogs

Some competitors always blame the judge.

Some competitors don't

Even if it was only a numpty show and you entered the wrong class, and not only that there wasn't a right class to enter, and you still had a nice time and managed not to get swine flu off your bacon roll, it's still OK to have a moan to your friends, without expecting the Spanish Inquisition?

And finally, possibly:

Life's too damn short for showing

 

[Rollin]

I quite understand your point of view, I have often watched the line up mystified by the decision.

I suppose it is what the judge is looking for. For me manners and temperament matter if all other things are equal. I was shocked on taking a 3 yr old mare to a hunter breeding class, that she was unplaced whereas two appallingly behaved youngsters - who put the other competitors and their horses, at risk with their teeth and heels were given 1st and 2nd place.

Our little mare was sooo well behaved and the judge commented on this. However, I concluded that this judge, did not rate temperament...not long after this show she was dumped by one of her home-bred youngsters and was off work for months with broken bones.

 

[latottwirl]

[ QUOTE ]

Life's too damn short for showing

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly not going to agree with that one

 

[skewbaldpony]

Out of interest, those in the know, when DO manners count?

Surely in children's ponies? I thought hack classed?

Can anyone enlighten me?

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
it's still OK to have a moan to your friends, without expecting the Spanish Inquisition?

[/ QUOTE ] Rather than a Spanish Inquisition, I actually think most people on this thread were trying to be helpful to the OP and explain why the judge made the decision he/she did - I know that was my intention.

[ QUOTE ]
And finally, possibly:

Life's too damn short for showing

[/ QUOTE ] No way - life may be too short for housework, but always happy to find the time for showing (along with dressage, hunting, eventing, showjumping etc)!

 

[Shilasdair]

QR
Sell your common cob, and buy a decent horse, for example a Tb.
S

 

[Hullabaloo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Life's too damn short for showing

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly not going to agree with that one

[/ QUOTE ]

But I will

My advice to the OP is to stick to jumping. Its based on performance not opinion and its much more fun

 

[Colleen_Miss_Tom]

I tend to do the bigger shows as they are normally better judged .

Type normally comes before manners in most shows I have seen .

If you have a cob then stick him into a cob class, I can understand the judge not placing you higher up in the class to be honest , If that OP is your cob in your avatar then he certaintly isnt a hunter type .

Why dont you try the coloured class ?

Col

 

[TGM]

Manners do count in all classes - ie in a cob class, a cob of good conformation and type with good manners should be placed above a cob who has identical conformation and type but with bad manners. However, if a horse is entered into the wrong class for its type, it may have exemplary manners and still be placed down the line, because it is the wrong type.

I know in various showing books I have read the authors usually say that judges should look for correct type above all. I think the reasoning is that conformation and type basically stay the same, but manners and schooling can be improved.

 

[ForeverBroke_]

Having been at the same show, can i just point out one thing ...

In a previous class, the same judge in question was judging her own pony , being ridden by girl she notably does 'favour.'

The pony won..

Now, had it been a justified reason then sure , but im still not sure whether i'd want to judge my own.

 

[skewbaldpony]

[ QUOTE ]
Having been at the same show, can i just point out one thing ...

In a previous class, the same judge in question was judging her own pony , being ridden by girl she notably does 'favour.'

The pony won..

Now, had it been a justified reason then sure , but im still not sure whether i'd want to judge my own.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm surprised that's allowed!
I suppose at little local shows, there are no fixed rules about these things, but I wouldn't allow it, even if I were running the tiniest event!

 

[skewbaldpony]

[ QUOTE ]
Manners do count in all classes - ie in a cob class, a cob of good conformation and type with good manners should be placed above a cob who has identical conformation and type but with bad manners. However, if a horse is entered into the wrong class for its type, it may have exemplary manners and still be placed down the line, because it is the wrong type.

I know in various showing books I have read the authors usually say that judges should look for correct type above all. I think the reasoning is that conformation and type basically stay the same, but manners and schooling can be improved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree on all that, as far as my rusty old memory will work, but what I am trying to remember is, are there classes where behaviour has a higher profile? Children's Riding Ponies it obviously should, though doesn't always seem to win the day!

In my doddery old memory, something about Hack classes being highly dependant on manners? Or is it my rose tinted specs playing me up again?!

 

[siennamum]

I think the nswer is to avoid shows like this. You'll know next time & save yourselves the annoyance.

I can see both sides of this and whilst I have seen plenty of examples of biased or unfair judging, it is almost always at crappy little shows with clueless judges. I would avoid shows like this like the plague.

When you go to a show where the judges decision matches you own - even if you come last! it more than makes up for it.

Will was 3rd in a hunter class recently - the winner was a HOYS middleweight and so the standard was high. There were some super hunters and Sienna is really a bit small and plain, but she was impeccably behaved and they were too fresh so moved down the line. A good hunter should be mannerly. I would certainly expect to see a good gallop so can see the OP's point.

 

[ForeverBroke_]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Having been at the same show, can i just point out one thing ...

In a previous class, the same judge in question was judging her own pony , being ridden by girl she notably does 'favour.'

The pony won..

Now, had it been a justified reason then sure , but im still not sure whether i'd want to judge my own.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm surprised that's allowed!
I suppose at little local shows, there are no fixed rules about these things, but I wouldn't allow it, even if I were running the tiniest event!

[/ QUOTE ]


Well she's trying to sell the pony in question this month, so im sure it'll make a good selling point

 

[RunToEarth]

If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
I've worked the counties for a few years now, you learn the big faces and the big names, you get to know which judges will ride in what way and sometimes you can know before you get in there that a particular judge will not get on well with your ride.
But that is the game, and if you don't like it, why do you show?
Putting a cob in a hunter class was a bit of a no ball anyway, cobs tend to do best in cob classes because hunter judges will favour a hunter type horse.

 

[TGM]

Manners are important in children's ponies, but the bigger ponies are sometimes excused a little more exuberance than the lead rein and first ridden ponies. However, ponies still need to be the correct type for their class - enter a plaited, slender show pony in a Mountain & Moorland Lead Rein Class, and the judge will still be justified in putting it down the line, however mannerly it is.

I know nothing of Hacks though, so can't comment on that!

 

[skewbaldpony]

[ QUOTE ]
If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
I've worked the counties for a few years now, you learn the big faces and the big names, you get to know which judges will ride in what way and sometimes you can know before you get in there that a particular judge will not get on well with your ride.
But that is the game, and if you don't like it, why do you show?
Putting a cob in a hunter class was a bit of a no ball anyway, cobs tend to do best in cob classes because hunter judges will favour a hunter type horse.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, I'm not seeing how that's 'trying to be helpful' - it just comes across as snipey - the OP isn't 'working the counties'

she's just at a local show with, it seems a particularly questionable judge!
There wasn't a cob class, she already said that.

Little people go to little shows for a bit of fun, but that doesn't mean that the judges shouldn't be fair, and that inlcudes being told that there is a limited schedule.

[ QUOTE ]
If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

[/ QUOTE ]

but it's only a local show!

Yes she's had one or two constructive pointers, but I don't really feel like this is one of them, sorry.

 

[RunToEarth]

I was actually referring to you, and not the OP, with my comment about the heat.
I just think there is a lot of shite about the showing circuit out there at the moment, and really moaning like this just stands for the local shows to vanish if they cause this much upset.

 

[Hannah1Pie]

I am grateful to many of the comments =D some not so nice but thanks to the people that did give good advice, i did only take the class because people advised me to and to the idiot that told me to sell my cob to buy a TB im just gonna have to learn to ignore you.

I think it is hard for people to understand why i found it strange that this girl was placed before me because you didnt see the horse but thanks for trying to understand =D

I take all advise into concideration

 

[Dottie]

I have a classic which i saw at a (large) local show near me.

It was the in-hand Riding horse/pony class.

A lady with a Fell pony entered the class by accident, she done her trot up then left the ring to go in the class she should have been in (M&M)

.......she won the riding horse class

Am i right to think this was a little odd? I know the judge liked M&M's but that was taking it a little far surely??

 

[skewbaldpony]

{sigh}

another one still young enough to know everything.

it was just a discussion. not 'a lot of shite'

I can't actually stand the erudition. I think I'll find some grown ups to talk to.

 

[skewbaldpony]

[ QUOTE ]
and to the idiot that told me to sell my cob to buy a TB im just gonna have to learn to ignore you.

[/ QUOTE ]

that was no idiot, that was shilasdair.

she'll have been having you on

 

[RunToEarth]

Oh please let me play with the big kids, perhaps I could soak up your vast pool of knowledge