a plee for help and advice - Getting very disheartened...

I don't see why there can't be a happy medium. Imo hacking doesn't mean dawdling along, I always aim to do the majority of schooling out hacking. Gets equally good results, horses usually prefer it & progress quicker. And if you can keep your horses attention to do a movement well on a hack with other distractions its much easier to transfer that to a comp than it is to go from a quiet arena at home to a comp.
Plus certainly when it comes to green horses, they are limited both physically & mentally in what they can do in an arena, hence the boredom. Whereas a schooled horse can be kept interested with a huge variety of different exercises.
 
For those comparing professional dressage horses, they're usually purchased for the job and are built to find working "uphill" in an outline easy. The OP has a cob, they often have draft blood, ie they're bred (originally) to be cart horses. They're built to take a collar, put their heads down and pull (sound familiar OP ;-) ? ) That's not to say that cobs can't do dressage, no reason why not,just sometimes you need a different approach to get there.
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
I've dealt with this before and here's my advice. If you don't already, use a loose ring snaffle, or if you use a pelham get one with sliding cheeks. This gives more movement in the mouth and makes them slightly less inclined to take a hold. Warm up thoroughly, on a long rein, not asking for an outline. The horse already sounds fit for the work you do, so keep that up. The idea is not to give the horse any excuses eg too tired or stiff so he says no thanks.

Next the contact/outline. Keep it consistent. Don't ride one style on hacks and another for schooling. Basically, the horse is complaining because you're asking too much, some horses are just not that enthusiastic, its their personality.

After warm up, pick him up a little, paying close attention to your aids and position, a bad riding posture makes his life harder so don't give him any excuses for not bothering. Pick him up gradually, don't shorten your reins by a foot all at once. Initially just shorten your reins a few inches, get him light in your hand, then reward vocally and let the reins out again. Repeat again and again and again. This is the only way to show him what is right. So many people get the reaction they want then try to keep it, the reward is supposed to be the lighter contact. For some horses its not enough of a reward, if they're the type who is happy to lean on the bit anyway.

For a horse to carry itself nicely on the bit, or even just not leaning on your hands, takes effort from the horse and makes him use muscles he currently doesn't have. Even if you can persuade him to do this consistently for a whole session, its going to make him ache like crazy, hence why he told you to get lost on the day of your dressage test. Think the first time you go to the gym and how much you ache the next day. Making him ache also doesn't give him any enthusiasm to hold himself in that manner in future. By only asking for a little real work at a time, the horse gradually builds the right muscles, the task becomes easier for him and he is then more inclined to do as you say.

As his muscle builds you gradually ask him to carry himself nicely for longer and longer each time, same goes for shortening the length of rein. This is not a quick fix and will take months of work but you will have a horse who carries himself at the end of it. Even when established, make sure your sessions include regular breaks where he gets to work on a long rein. Remember to reward a good effort rather than constantly asking and never saying thank-you. You can't fight half a ton of cob, and IME a few words of encouragement will be more effective than a big stick.

Lastly, I recommend you lunge without gadgets. He may look like he's moving nice but there's every chance he's leaning on the bit. If there's no contact he can't lean on it.
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Thank you for this!!

I have just changed his bit (4 weeks ago). He used to be in a KK bit, loose ring with lozenge (a fairly fat bit). He'd had that bit for 3 years. I figured it might be his bridle that was annoying him, so I bought a new comfort bridle, took away his nose band, etc to eliminate the bridle, and no change (this was a year ago). I now know the bridle isn't the issue, so I've changed his bit. I have now put him in a Hanging cheek French link (a relatively slim bit). He seems much more comfortable in this bit, and at fist he seemed to go much better, now he's back to his old habits, but seems more comfortable in that bit at least.

Your schooling techniques sound very wise. I always start on a long reign, walk and trot to warn up for 10 mins, however, I'm guilty of then gathering up the reigns in one swoop, instead of a gradual gather.

What you say about muscle aches does make sense. I have been trying to do school - hack - school - hack - school, to try and let him rest, but perhaps when he's going well, because it feels so lovely, I ride too long and he gets sore?!

Lunging with nothing is also a good idea. I do vary between lunging him in side reigns and nothing, but will remove the side reigns completely so he can't lean

I’m desperate to persevere with him, and will try the comments here to see if we can FINALLY move on from this sticky point!

Thank you all again!!!
 
Thank you so much for the well wishes on the fun rides! I'll definitely try and get some photo's and let you know our progress!!

I am looking forward to it, I must admit!!

...Sorry for confusion, but he's not a cob :o he's a bit of a heinze 47 really! ...But he does pull me like a cob in a harness!! He's all shoulders!!

He is - TB x Selle Francais x Sport Horse x Warm blood ... And we think he has a little Welsh in him somewhere along the lines!!! lol!
 
Some great advice on here op. Something else I would do is to use poles when schooling. Trotting, cantering and raised poles oftern makes them focus a bit more if they get bored.
Don't give up :)
 
Get out and do some endurance!
My boy is horrible in a school, he bolts, rears, pulls through the shoulder etc. However my last ditch attempt to find something to make him happy was ENDURANCE!
He gets to cover long distances at speed and he loves it, and I love that he is happy and we have found our mojo again.
He is a trotter and is not physically designed to work in a school environment (although he should be made to do it IMO) however, he hates it! in his mind he cannot understand why he should trot around going nowhere :) He does excellent lateral work (half pass trot and canter, shoulder in etc) but trotting sensibly in a circle drives him mental - i spent 5 years calmly schooling him and attempting to eventally get somewhere and then I decided why on earth am i trying to make my horse in to something he's not... discovered endurance this summer and havent looked back. I can safely say i hope never to put him in the school again unless its to jump --- I have a very happy fulfilled and super fit horsey! and we have an amazingly strong bond together, I only wish i'd given up schooling years ago :)

PS. I also own and am producing a dressage horse, so i'm not anti-schooling in the slightest :)

Good luck with your boy - if you head out for some fun rides let us all know how you get on.
Try some different disaplines and find what turns your horse on and stick to it i say.
 
Thank you!

I would post some photo's now but don't have any on my work PC :( other than the one that is my profile pic!!

I have loads on Facebook, so will try and post a link to my page later!!!

Thank you again everyone!!! :)
 
No problem OP & appologies for the cob comment, think I must have been mixing you up with someone else, because your post doesn't say what you've got.

Depending on how stiff or tense he is, you may find you need 10min in walk before you even think of trotting. They're all individuals.

If he's happy in his bit then stick with it. Hanging snaffles are held up in the mouth more so harder to lean on. But its a step up from a normal snaffle & what's happened is he's been lighter in the hand because the new bit has a sharper/stronger action, then as he's leaned on it more & more, he's got used to the feel & gone back to his old ways. This is how horses become hard-mouthed when people keep going up the ranks of stronger and stronger bits instead of sorting out the real problem.

Side reins will definitely allow him to lean, which means you'll get nowhere with schooling. You're re-teaching him to lean on the bit every time you lunge. People will say send him forwards with impulsion so he can't lean on the side reins but if he's happy to lean then he will, the only solution is to not use them.

It's not about you riding for too long, as I said, he sounds fit enough. It's about making him hold an outline for too long that's making him sore. The more he leans the more he's telling you his neck and back aches. To start with be happy with 5secs out of every 5min and build it up from there. Push too hard, p*ss him off and all he'll do is fight you.

Horses like this teach you patience. Every time you want to chase after him get a hold of him, instead let your reins out sit up tall smile (through gritted teeth if necessary!) and say in your happiest voice ok boy walk on. Then quietly try again in a minute. The minute tension creeps in he can't carry himself. A horse needs to be relaxed to be on the bit.
 
A point I'd like to make is that my old horse seemingly hated being schooled. The truth was, I was doing a bad job of it and my normally happy horse went badly because I was riding her badly. She also struggled because the school I was in, was a deep, slippery sand.

I took her somewhere and had lessons with a trainer. The trainer was good, she had us both doing interesting things and the surface was excellent. My horse very quickly stopped being a pain in the bum and we made progress.

Look at yourself first, are you actually riding the horse properly - are you asking reasonable questions and is the school a decent surface for the horse to work sensibly on.
 
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