A stompy traveller

LHIS

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I have a wonderful supercob, but he has one downfall - his travelling solo is stompy and worrisome.
I do need him to travel solo, we can’t always have the luxury of company and I want to be able to take him out solo confidentally.
I want to know please if there is any way of teaching a stompy traveller to travel nicely? I think it’s a combination of excitement and anxiousness, he doesn’t do it in company.
Travelled him today solo for 2 miles to a friends yard and he was stamping the whole way. He’s the same over longer distances too. When I bought him I was made aware of this vice, and the advice was ‘once he’s loaded don’t hang around’, which I now understand. Any pearls of wisdom please?
 

be positive

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I have had a few stomp and try various things to help, putting down a decent amount of bedding, a mirror, taking a net of haylage rather than hay can make a huge difference if they are greedy and usually fed hay, moving partitions so they can get to a different position, some prefer more space others are better with less, the most recent one was dreadful in a rear facing box but is super facing forward in a trailer in his new home.
 

LHIS

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He’s in a trailer, a 505. I can try a mirror yes. Not sure about a sheep or goat (what would you do with them whilst out and about?).
I’d really like to find a way to teach him to travel quietly, if that’s at all possible?
 

Michen

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See my thread here http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?748276-At-my-wits-end-with-nutty-pony-to-travel

This horse now travels like an absolute lamb, all over the country on his own. He’s been on the side of the motorway for two hours with lorries shaking the lorry every time they go past and stood rock solid. He loads and travels in the pitch black to go hunting, goes in a trailer, any kind of lorry, can be left on it alone whilst walking XC etc etc. And he was an absolute terror which a professional failed to fix.

Does your horse stand on the lorry? Do you think he’s genuinely upset and anxious? Does he stand tied up anywhere on yard etc?

I would teach him to stand quietly on lorry/trailer without being stressy or stomping before even thinking about driving, for me building it up minute by minute worked and doing it every day, sometimes twice a day.. every time he got a little bit noisy and upset I went back a step. I built up the travelling similarly, a few minutes, then ten, then twenty. Stopping at Services and switching off engine. Etc etc. Not a quick fix. Your horse obviously doesn’t sound anywhere near as bad as mine who was flat out dangerous to himself, but still think it pays to do the relevant groundwork and ensure you have a horse you can trust to stand in unexpected situations such as breakdowns.
 

LHIS

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Thank you Michen, more than happy to put the work in with him. I think it’s a mixture of slight anxiety because he’s alone, and partial just impatient. I’ll have a good read of your post.
 

LHIS

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I’ve read your thread this morning and yes I think your bad traveller is worse than mine, but that’s not to say he couldn’t progressively get worse.

In answer to your questions - he stands nicely on the yard tied up, no silly business. As a person he’s very measured and reasonable, in every other aspect he is safety personified. He is not keen on being left alone on the yard, but isn’t ridiculous just a bit noisy. Food is his number one priority and hayledge a big treat so I might try this to see if that helps. I’m also going to buy a mirror for the trailer.

I’m going to get the trailer serviced too - it was done just before I bought it earlier this year but I guess it can do no harm to have it checked over and make sure it is in good order.

I have done lots of loading practise with him, on, stand quietly, off, increasing the duration each time. He did really well, so maybe I need to do more of that? I’d be reluctant to send him off anywhere as I only have 1 other and he will not be happy alone for a week or so.
 

Michen

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Oh not suggesting you send him anywhere- mine was a last resort as he was dangerous to himself and also me.

I would continue with the basics and make sure he can cover each step without getting anxious before moving on. So being shut up in trailer, left for five mins, then engine on, then driven for a bit etc etc. Or you may find that haylage/a mirror/distraction totally does the job in which case great. FWIW I used to tie up a bucket filled with something interesting such as pony nuts for mine in his early travelling days which helped a lot!


I’ve read your thread this morning and yes I think your bad traveller is worse than mine, but that’s not to say he couldn’t progressively get worse.

In answer to your questions - he stands nicely on the yard tied up, no silly business. As a person he’s very measured and reasonable, in every other aspect he is safety personified. He is not keen on being left alone on the yard, but isn’t ridiculous just a bit noisy. Food is his number one priority and hayledge a big treat so I might try this to see if that helps. I’m also going to buy a mirror for the trailer.

I’m going to get the trailer serviced too - it was done just before I bought it earlier this year but I guess it can do no harm to have it checked over and make sure it is in good order.

I have done lots of loading practise with him, on, stand quietly, off, increasing the duration each time. He did really well, so maybe I need to do more of that? I’d be reluctant to send him off anywhere as I only have 1 other and he will not be happy alone for a week or so.
 

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Thought I’d come back and update this as we’ve been working on this issue this winter.
Sadly the mirror in the trailer hasn’t seemed to help, if anything he is quite alarmed by his own reflection and it doesn’t appear to be comforting to him.
I have tried the little by little approach of loading, leaving for a few mins, unloading and repeating and I haven’t seen any improvement.
Somewhere along the line he must have had a bad experience or something because there seems to be no reasoning with him. It’s frustrating as this horse is spot on in pretty much every other aspect.

In yesterday’s practise he was throwing himself around, trying to rear up in the trailer, getting really wound up. It was scary and I’m at a loss as to what to do next.

I’m going to remove the partition and get some full length bars to see if that helps. Failing that I am out of ideas. But I do need to get him to travel as riding from where I live is becoming increasingly dangerous due to the road.

If anyone has any ideas please feel free to suggest!
 

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I feel for you as it’s stressful having a worried traveller particularly when alone and you are aware it’s escalating.

My lovely gelding (who is not in work now) would kick the absolute sh*t out of the trailer when I first got him. He was well travelled and had evented and hunted a lot so was more than experienced travelling. He was also a nightmare when you got there, I’d have to take him tacked up and jump on ASAP as could barely hold him in hand.

Then I remebered that a friend travels their hunters with the front partition in the trailer (to seperate them) and back partition out with a long bar across. They both wear boots when travelling together obviously but it has to be done as one will not travel at all unless he has room to spread his back legs.

I tried it with mine and he improved no end as he could now do a ‘stance’ and support himself. I also made a point not to hang around but to introduce small periods of time waiting to unload or set off. I’d give a handful of feed or a haynet on the way to keep him occupied for a few minutes.

I’m not sure when he switched but suddenly he became a doddle of a traveller, never kicked the trailer, was calm when he got there. Took him to Windsor and back in a day - 7 hours driving and didn’t worry once. Could event him alone as he was so good to do/stand on trailer whilst I course walked or between phases. It took a good 6 months but he transformed.
 

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Following this with interest as my mare stomps when she's travelling alone like it's going out of fashion. I'm avoiding travelling her at the moment as it's so stressful! If you find a miracle cure LHIS, please let me know. Oh, and good luck with yours!
 

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My ‘stompy traveller’ turned out to be losing balance on his back end. Partition out, cross-tied.....no more stomping. When we turn corners he turns herringbone and straightens himself again. Now travels nice and quietly. I don’t know if this is remotely relevant to anyone else though. Good luck.
 

Thea

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Have you got access to transport with a camera in there so you can watch what he is actually doing when travelling?

This might help you understand if he’s impatient/anxious and stomping/throwing himself around for that reason or if he actually is loosing his balance and it’s upsetting him. You’d be able to see how he wants to position himself then if he is loosing his balance.

Although my mare is a good traveller she was sometimes ‘bouncing’ off the partition when going round corners instead of standing on her own feet. I could see this and adjusted the partitions to give her more space, she travels backwards but watching her now she wedges her bottom into the corner and stands diagonally across the space rather than straight backwards if you know what I mean. Rarely ever hear a peep out of her now, even on long journeys home after a hard days hunting when she would be tired.
 

LHIS

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Have you got access to transport with a camera in there so you can watch what he is actually doing when travelling?

This might help you understand if he’s impatient/anxious and stomping/throwing himself around for that reason or if he actually is loosing his balance and it’s upsetting him. You’d be able to see how he wants to position himself then if he is loosing his balance.

Although my mare is a good traveller she was sometimes ‘bouncing’ off the partition when going round corners instead of standing on her own feet. I could see this and adjusted the partitions to give her more space, she travels backwards but watching her now she wedges her bottom into the corner and stands diagonally across the space rather than straight backwards if you know what I mean. Rarely ever hear a peep out of her now, even on long journeys home after a hard days hunting when she would be tired.

I don’t have a camera but could rig something together. He does it before we even set off, as soon as he’s loaded you need to get going. He gives it about 20 seconds then the stamping starts. This then continues for the trip. I have spoken to his former owners and they’ve reported he did the same with them. They never tried cross tying and partition out so that’s my next port of call.
 

LHIS

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My ‘stompy traveller’ turned out to be losing balance on his back end. Partition out, cross-tied.....no more stomping. When we turn corners he turns herringbone and straightens himself again. Now travels nice and quietly. I don’t know if this is remotely relevant to anyone else though. Good luck.
Thank you this is my next port of call, I have ordered some full width bars.
 

LHIS

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Following this with interest as my mare stomps when she's travelling alone like it's going out of fashion. I'm avoiding travelling her at the moment as it's so stressful! If you find a miracle cure LHIS, please let me know. Oh, and good luck with yours!
Thank you - sounds just like my lad and yes I sympathise with the stress factor it makes me feel really uneasy and I desperately want to sort it because it’s now holding us back and hindering our enjoyment together.
 

Antw23uk

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If his behaviour is escalating now you have changed tactic then the bad experience is you, right now (hope that doesnt sound harsh, its not meant to be i promise) I think the little by little approach is worrying him so he is starting to act up more! He sounds like the stoic type so i would try the partition out and cross tieing but really i would just be getting on and going out and about with him, keeping an eye on your driving, just in case your worrying is transferring to your driving and its making him unbalanced but really just crack on and dont hang about.
 

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He does it before we even set off, as soon as he’s loaded you need to get going. He gives it about 20 seconds then the stamping starts. This then continues for the trip. I have spoken to his former owners and they’ve reported he did the same with them.

See, I would not travel until this is ironed out.

If you needed to get him somewhere as a emergency, then of course get him in and set off, stamping notwithstanding.

At the moment, if he is not standing still, he gets on, stamps and is "rewarded" but either setting off or by being taken off.

For a nervous one I do the load for a minute and take off when they are GOOD for that short space of time, and gradually increase the time they are on.

Sadly, once one thinks that stamping will lead to coming off, then they may need to learn that this is not a successful tactic. In the past, with spoiled horses, I have loaded them up and waited. The lorry rocks, the lorry rolls. I sit on the ramp nice and silent, just there to ensure the horse is not actually stuck anywhere.

They might be there an hour, they might be there two, or three.

Once they are quiet, they can come off!

I do set them up for success, they will have been worked first so settled, have had a comfort break in the stable so don't need a pee and have a hay net so not hungry.

I have not known it take more than a couple or three sessions for them to realise that stamping really doesn't get them anywhere.

One note of caution, when you do it, make sure you have time. If you leave them for an hour and then run out of time and take them off before they have stopped stamping then all you have taught them is that "to get off the lorry I have to stamp for an hour."


ETA - the last time I had to do this was with quite a new and shiny lorry. I got a friend to sit on the ramp, instructed not to commune with the horse or react in any way unless the horse was stuck and needed actual help. I went in the tack room, turned the radio up and cleaned tack. I could not bear to hear my nice shiny box be roughed up!:eek:o_O:p
 

LHIS

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See, I would not travel until this is ironed out.

If you needed to get him somewhere as a emergency, then of course get him in and set off, stamping notwithstanding.

At the moment, if he is not standing still, he gets on, stamps and is "rewarded" but either setting off or by being taken off.

For a nervous one I do the load for a minute and take off when they are GOOD for that short space of time, and gradually increase the time they are on.

Sadly, once one thinks that stamping will lead to coming off, then they may need to learn that this is not a successful tactic. In the past, with spoiled horses, I have loaded them up and waited. The lorry rocks, the lorry rolls. I sit on the ramp nice and silent, just there to ensure the horse is not actually stuck anywhere.

They might be there an hour, they might be there two, or three.

Once they are quiet, they can come off!

I do set them up for success, they will have been worked first so settled, have had a comfort break in the stable so don't need a pee and have a hay net so not hungry.

I have not known it take more than a couple or three sessions for them to realise that stamping really doesn't get them anywhere.

One note of caution, when you do it, make sure you have time. If you leave them for an hour and then run out of time and take them off before they have stopped stamping then all you have taught them is that "to get off the lorry I have to stamp for an hour."


ETA - the last time I had to do this was with quite a new and shiny lorry. I got a friend to sit on the ramp, instructed not to commune with the horse or react in any way unless the horse was stuck and needed actual help. I went in the tack room, turned the radio up and cleaned tack. I could not bear to hear my nice shiny box be roughed up!:eek:o_O:p

Thank you - in a way I employed this method when I’ve been doing my little and often training with him, or at least have tried. Albeit I haven’t let him totally kick off and ignored it and make him self soothe, simply I haven’t been brave enough. Perhaps I haven’t done it for long enough or let him off too soon in brief periods of calm.
 

LHIS

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If his behaviour is escalating now you have changed tactic then the bad experience is you, right now (hope that doesnt sound harsh, its not meant to be i promise) I think the little by little approach is worrying him so he is starting to act up more! He sounds like the stoic type so i would try the partition out and cross tieing but really i would just be getting on and going out and about with him, keeping an eye on your driving, just in case your worrying is transferring to your driving and its making him unbalanced but really just crack on and dont hang about.

Thanks - no offence taken. I had previously done this, just got on with it, been careful driving and not made a fuss. I saw no improvement, previous owner did the same and just got on with it and ‘accepted’ he was going to do it (though always made sure he was as safe as can be). Again perhaps I just didn’t do it for long enough I don’t know.
 

LHIS

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See, I would not travel until this is ironed out.

If you needed to get him somewhere as a emergency, then of course get him in and set off, stamping notwithstanding.

At the moment, if he is not standing still, he gets on, stamps and is "rewarded" but either setting off or by being taken off.

For a nervous one I do the load for a minute and take off when they are GOOD for that short space of time, and gradually increase the time they are on.

Sadly, once one thinks that stamping will lead to coming off, then they may need to learn that this is not a successful tactic. In the past, with spoiled horses, I have loaded them up and waited. The lorry rocks, the lorry rolls. I sit on the ramp nice and silent, just there to ensure the horse is not actually stuck anywhere.

They might be there an hour, they might be there two, or three.

Once they are quiet, they can come off!

I do set them up for success, they will have been worked first so settled, have had a comfort break in the stable so don't need a pee and have a hay net so not hungry.

I have not known it take more than a couple or three sessions for them to realise that stamping really doesn't get them anywhere.

One note of caution, when you do it, make sure you have time. If you leave them for an hour and then run out of time and take them off before they have stopped stamping then all you have taught them is that "to get off the lorry I have to stamp for an hour."


ETA - the last time I had to do this was with quite a new and shiny lorry. I got a friend to sit on the ramp, instructed not to commune with the horse or react in any way unless the horse was stuck and needed actual help. I went in the tack room, turned the radio up and cleaned tack. I could not bear to hear my nice shiny box be roughed up!:eek:o_O:p

If I were to try this method do you think it would be better to leave one or both ramps down, or put both up to mirror how it would be during travel?
 

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If I were to try this method do you think it would be better to leave one or both ramps down, or put both up to mirror how it would be during travel?

For an inexperienced and nervous horse I would start with ramps down so they don't feel claustrophobic. For one that travels well and is just stamping as he has made a connection with stamping and getting off, then I would shut it up and leave it with him, albeit supervised from the outside.

If you think he may injure himself then I would not do it, i.e if the roof is too low or he is likely to go over the breast bar as if he did that and then you take him off then you have just taught him to...go over the breast bar! TBH, I don't use transport with a breast bar, too risky for me.

We used sturdy boxes where the horse was safe to have a strop.

I find that, unless they have been previously severely traumatised, or they are physically compromised, they will learn to do what is important to us for them to learn, provided it is presented so they have a reward for complying rather than being inadvertently rewarded for not complying.

When we bought young horses to transform them into Police horses they were often initially stampy. We would start them in educational mode, as in on/off when they were quiet and short journeys. Then increase the amount of time they stood or were travelled.

Once they realised that daily they were loaded up, and then they may be standing on the box for half an hour before we set off, driven for an hour then standing for an hour before while we briefed and had a meal, they soon learned to tuck into their hay nets. If one stamped it would not be taken off. On the contrary.
 

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I don’t have a camera but could rig something together. He does it before we even set off, as soon as he’s loaded you need to get going. He gives it about 20 seconds then the stamping starts. This then continues for the trip. I have spoken to his former owners and they’ve reported he did the same with them. They never tried cross tying and partition out so that’s my next port of call.

It does sound like he is anticipating travelling with the stomping as soon as he is loaded. I take it he loads okay without any fuss?

Without knowing what his character is like it’s hard to say whether he is feeling worried or excited. Horses feed off the vibes you give out so if you are stressing about travelling him it will make him worse. It’s hard not to stress with something like this so it is easy to make them worse without knowing it.

Having had a number of horses with issues in the past, if there was something that was going wrong and worrying/stressing me I asked an experienced friend to step in and resolve/improve the issue. They were completely detached from the horse and gave no nervous vibes off for the horse to pick up on. Do you have an experienced friend that could perhaps step in and do some ground work with him and build it to using the trailer in that ground work? It would also help you to assess the situation from a distance and you may pick up on things you’re currently not seeing as you’re in the battle so to speak rather than observing it.

Loading and travelling issues are the most frustrating so I do feel for you!

I have a routine with my horse, we’ve never had issues but she’s very food oriented so I use this to my advantage. She never has treats around the lorry only on it. She’s never tied up to it unless tacking up so if at a show she goes back on the box between classes. She views the lorry as a place she gets yummy grub like carrots and treats so is always keen to get on there to stuff her face. She’s happy and I’m hopefully keeping any loading issues at bay that might surface. Doesn’t work for all horses but works for my piggy one!
 

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My old cob used to do this in our trailer. It was mainly because he couldn't see out the front and so was constantly trying to find a spot where he could see what was going on out the back. I travelled him without a partition and with reasonably loose cross ties so he could look round a bit. He always had a haynet too. He was fine once we arrived and I could drop the front ramp and he could see out. If you think this might be the issue with your horse then a mirror might distract him and sort the problem?

I now have a small lorry and younger cob used to stomp with impatience so getting on the road fairly promptly worked as he had to think (a little bit) about balance and he could also see out the window. The last journey he was stompy but he was trying to steal the more delicious haylage from his companions net - he 'only' had plain hay in his! He was totally quiet on the way home as he was very tired (and full).

Edited to add that I always put down straw or shavings as mine pee like drains when travelling - it also deadens the noise from any stomping (neither wear shoes).
 

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I thought I'd come back and give an update for those who might be interested.

We spent time practising loading, standing on the trailer with a net of haylage as a distraction, and then walking off. All good, providing the food was there and I didn't disappear from view. As soon as I put the ramps up and do my checks to set off he starts.

I decided to get some professional help and had one of the IH trainers out to help me. Found this really useful and it was good to know that what I was doing was what they recommended. Left me with homework of loading, standing on trailer being calm, then off again, and repeat. All good. No travelling practised for my homework as focussing on bringing on, behaving himself, and then coming off.

Then the weather changed, and for a good 10 days we had sideways rain and wind so travelling not sensible. A brief respite on Sunday and I was desperate to get out and ride. Put all our practise into use and got everything ready for a 5 minute drive down the road to get to somewhere safe to hack from. Loaded him, ramps up, kicks off. Then it started hailing.

I tried to calm him, and he did, but the heavens well and truly opened (hitting my trailer like a steel drum band) and he turned into a giraffe. I took him off the trailer, walked him round a bit, weather wouldn't quit, so I did and put him back on the yard.

I'm finding this really frustrating, and really disheartening. More practise this week, and will try again at the weekend. He is fine in company, but solo travelling is a different story. Where I live is becoming increasingly dangerous to hack from, its all roads, with nowhere really to go other than up and down the road. Feeling :(
 
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