A what to do re training

[teapot]

My expectations of someone with a recent stage 4 would be that they'd be good enough to put on a recently broken wobbly 4yo, or on a sharp/fit competition horse, or an ex racehorse straight out of training, or a well schooled horse in a double bridle... and be confident that they would be able to self direct themselves to do some useful schooling. And that's the kind of experience you build by riding lots of horses (anything you can get your hands on!!)..

See, I have a number of friends training for their I/the new Stage 5 and that's what they're riding currently. I have been told the 4 isn't quite about the baby babies, or the fresh ex racehorses, and I trust the advice I get. I'm not doing it in terms of ever being employed as a rider, more as an all round business manager (which is what I do job wise)

 

[teapot]

TP it seems totally logical to me to use the resources at your disposal which right now surely has to include the horses where you are currently working? More saddle time can't ever be a bad thing and even if not particularly BHS method wise they presumably would be a different type to the ones you are currently riding so would tick the wider experience box?

The only issue they're all quite small. That said new boys 1,2, 3 look promising!


Thanks for all the replies - need to get a couple of things sorted before I even consider a share, and hoping I may be lucky at work. Interestingly writing it down has helped settle a few thoughts I had too, and a good old honest chat is needed. The biggest thing I need help with is expanding the toolbox of things to use to improve a horse - by constantly having the same lesson on the same horse, it narrows my chance to develop those skills. The very skills I need to then get on a horse and go 'we're doing x'. I mean I'd love a supervised schooling lesson on the horse I keep getting first for example.

 

[ruth83]

Teapot, please would you PM me where you are going for training (I can take a good guess), with which coach and where you are based/travelling from?

One thing I will point out is that in the Stage 4 now you will ride 1 schooled horse and 1 horse who is either young or in need of retraining. It sounds like your S2 type horse is falling into this category.

There are a lot of potential options out there, many of which have been mentioned here. I may have more to add when I've seen your answers

 

[teapot]

Teapot, please would you PM me where you are going for training (I can take a good guess), with which coach and where you are based/travelling from?

One thing I will point out is that in the Stage 4 now you will ride 1 schooled horse and 1 horse who is either young or in need of retraining. It sounds like your S2 type horse is falling into this category.

There are a lot of potential options out there, many of which have been mentioned here. I may have more to add when I've seen your answers

Will pm

It's four horses for the dressage route - one school/used to train people horse, one younger, one for double work, one for polework that's also used to train others. The occasional pole work lesson would do some good too, especially as I don't tend to leave the ground. I had one before Christmas, and ended up ridng some great lines, aiming for changes etc. Guess I enjoy the hard work and being pushed too.

 

[ruth83]

Will pm

It's four horses for the dressage route - one school/used to train people horse, one younger, one for double work, one for polework that's also used to train others. The occasional pole work lesson would do some good too, especially as I don't tend to leave the ground. I had one before Christmas, and ended up ridng some great lines, aiming for changes etc. Guess I enjoy the hard work and being pushed too.

Yes, if you're doing dressage only it will be more horses on the flat

 

[ester]

you're not that big for the purposes anyway

 

[RachelFerd]

See, I have a number of friends training for their I/the new Stage 5 and that's what they're riding currently. I have been told the 4 isn't quite about the baby babies, or the fresh ex racehorses, and I trust the advice I get. I'm not doing it in terms of ever being employed as a rider, more as an all round business manager (which is what I do job wise)

Have the expectations lowered then? Certainly when I was prepping for stg 4 (complete) they really were expecting you to be able to get on anything that wasn't killer evil and get some kind of tune. That said, it does sound like your experience isn't quite rounded enough day to day, and you'll benefit so much from some extra curricular riding.

My riding got exponentially better when I started riding racehorses full time - even my dressage work got better, even though I wasn't doing any dressage on the racehorses. Just made me a better horse person, which fed into all of my other riding.

I say this fondly, as now I'm back in an office, that skill is fading again

 

[teapot]

Have the expectations lowered then? Certainly when I was prepping for stg 4 (complete) they really were expecting you to be able to get on anything that wasn't killer evil and get some kind of tune. That said, it does sound like your experience isn't quite rounded enough day to day, and you'll benefit so much from some extra curricular riding.

My riding got exponentially better when I started riding racehorses full time - even my dressage work got better, even though I wasn't doing any dressage on the racehorses. Just made me a better horse person, which fed into all of my other riding.

I say this fondly, as now I'm back in an office, that skill is fading again

The I exam was always far more about the babies than the 4 ever was, more so now given the lunging has been replace with long reining. The whole lot has changed and for the most part for the better. I did some training during lockdown with an assessor and they said similar too.

I wouldn't want to sit on a wobbly four year old and wouldn't expect to be put on one either! The biggest gap is the schooling on my own. I actually ride a good mixture, from current BE and BD horses through to younger ID types, older make you work for it schoolmasters etc. Not one horse has been or is a push button schoolmaster like the type you'd get at a certain other well known training centre.

 

[Red-1]

In addition, when I trained for the II, I went to a local show jumpers yard and asked if they needed help. I rode anything and everything. Most the new babies, sometimes an older one who had stopped jumping. Some hacking, but that was in a parkland setting so we did schooling in a large area rather than pure hacking.

I had to cope with all sorts of behaviour, newly retired racers (as in just off the track), stallions, a cob there for schooling for Search for a Star or whatever it was called...

You say you want to do independent schooling, I suspect you already know enough to do that, but need some problems thrown your way. Nothing like sitting on an ex racer in a parkland setting to make you pull some ideas out of the bag. It all goes to have you thinking, rather than sitting in an arena doing the same-old same-old.

When between horses, the SJer had moved, but I approached another and started riding theirs. The opportunities are out there. You do have to be Abe to sit on what you get though, but IMO that should be part of the test, as...

I am another surprised that someone with an I wouldn't be expected to ride a wobbly 4 year old, with confidence. When I did my II, wayyyyy back in 1995, it would have been expected where I trained. I went to YRC for a stage 4 prep course and was teaching a wobbly 4 year old to jump. The place at Snainton where I did residential courses certainly had a spread of horses, but I knew I had to source rides from elsewhere to get a full spread of experience, hence approaching the SJer.

I saw a couple of exam centres during exams, one had cracking horses, where many candidates floundered as they were privately owned horses who had a brain and needed sympathetic yet firm handling, the dressage had wobbly baby as well as Intermediare dressage horse thrown in, as well as a re-school. The other had little better than school horses. There was at least 6cm in difference in jump heights too! The riding test was certainly not the same in both centres, even though it was supposedly the same exam.

What exam do the BHS do then, to show people have the ability to train from scratch? I thought AI, or stage 3, was about riding safe horses and maintaining or generally improving, competing grassroots. Stage 4 was for initial training past the backing stage, and solving problems, competing Novice BE/ newcomers SJ, Ele Dressage. I presumed the I was about being able to start from scratch pretty much or riding to a higher standard?

 

[teapot]

What exam do the BHS do then, to show people have the ability to train from scratch? I thought AI, or stage 3, was about riding safe horses and maintaining or generally improving, competing grassroots. Stage 4 was for initial training past the backing stage, and solving problems, competing Novice BE/ newcomers SJ, Ele Dressage. I presumed the I was about being able to start from scratch pretty much or riding to a higher standard?

From what I've been told by various people, the starting from scratch and freshly backed comes in under the I; in contrast, I was told the 7 year old I was riding would be pulled out for the 'inexperienced ' section of the 4 so who knows? Possibly because this is the new requirement 'the learner will ride an inexperienced dressage horse, this horse may be young, or a mature horse that requires schooling'. The young horse training theory is examined at the 4 (crosses over with the 4 care) then put into practice at the I exam. .

So for the flat/dressage only I'd be expected to ride an established elementary horse in a double to develop way of going, then an inexperienced dressage horse (may be young, or a mature horse that requires schooling) with a 'view' to develop its way of going, then two horses that are used to train others, one of which would have to involve pole work, both with 'view' to develop its way of going, with detailed discussions after each one.

It has changed hugely. Though upon rereading that, the improvement I am getting from the various horses I'm riding suggests there is a coaching plan after all, and I've not recognised it in the best way.

As an aside, having spent many an hour chatting to a modern thinking fellow/assessor, she was saying one of the biggest problems for these centres is what happens when someone ruins a horse in an exam. It's why the 4 and 5 centres are so few and far between. You can undo a lot of flat work the next day/during the next week, but what happens to the horse that gets repeatedly buried over 1m10? They're not allowed to pull candidates before the damage happens. The 4 jump exam no longer actually involves jumping a full course. You may be asked to, but it is not a 100% given.

 

[Gloi]

I’d definitely look into informal options for a while- and make use of work horses if possible! I don’t know your local venues but round here within 30 miles 2 or 3 times a week there’s unaff dressage and a BD most weeks- most are desperate for writers and you can pretty much state when you can do, they’re often only arranged a day or two before. Work either need to have a rota for the on call set fairly well in advance or have a back up, it’s not fair to have you waiting around ‘just incase’ even if it is part of your salary. They need to give you some evenings off with some warning!

Totally this. I write at the dressage and I usually only get asked if I can do it the night before.

 

[teapot]

Just a little update, firstly thanks for all the input, much appreciated and it made me a take a step back and reasses a few things, both good and bad. Am hoping to make the most of work a bit more riding wise and hopefully one of the new boys would suit having an auntie tp!

I still do have lessons booked and am still not quite sure how I feel. I did make my feelings known regarding a couple of things standards wise, in a polite as a client btw way, not pissy in any way, and almost a week on not even an acknowledgement of my email so that says it all really! I was going to give one of the groups a go, taught by another senior coach, but having just seen the coach change for tomorrow's lesson (so less than 24hrs notice) there's no guarantee that for £72 an hour, you'll end up with the named senior, but instead get a junior/ptt holder...

 

[mossycup]

You'd think they'd be falling over themselves to teach a competent and self motivated rider who is eager and willing to try everything to learn. I ride at a very good training/exam centre, working towards my 3 ride at the moment, and my private lessons are always on different horses, with a different lesson plan, so my toolkit is always growing. The best thing for my confidence though has been getting a share

 

[teapot]

You'd think they'd be falling over themselves to teach a competent and self motivated rider who is eager and willing to try everything to learn. I ride at a very good training/exam centre, working towards my 3 ride at the moment, and my private lessons are always on different horses, with a different lesson plan, so my toolkit is always growing. The best thing for my confidence though has been getting a share

Sadly I think they're a bit spoilt (and subsequently in part complacent) for choice...