About crossbreeding and defining a backyard breeder.

[Spook]

Oh and yes CaveCanem, yes I did know that retained testicles is a congenital/genetic problem..... that was the point I was trying to make...... And it is often the result of line/in breeding particlarly too closely, in all animals I think??

 

[CorvusCorax]

They seem to sell their puppies no problem and the punters are so guillable, they believe what they are told..... once someone is regarded or established as a "breeder" what they say is gospel to many buyers ears.

Not all reg. dogs are shown or worked, they have no examination for suitability as breeding stock and the general puppy buying public are looking for a pet...... they do not know to look for many of the congenital problems and would probably not recognise recognise them if they did...... We have bred very few litters of puppies, only about 5 in 40yrs, but always have taken the greatest care with the bitches we have bought and also the stud dogs we used.

Well that is an issue for puppy buyers as well as breeders, to do their research...even doing a search and finding this thread might help one person, I do say on here quite often, that people should not fall for the hard sell and do their own research.

Re the congenital thing, in my own breed there is a huge red flag over monorchidism and cryptorchidism like there is in bad hips, to the point that I could name you dogs that are known for it and people who know the breed, would know not to touch with a barge pole, and luckily in most occasions the lines are stopped (among the reputable breeders, anyway!!!).

 

[FinnishLapphund]

KC may restrict on bitch litters but there is nothing to help restrict the damage popular studs do.

But there could be, many breed clubs in Sweden have recommendations about avoiding what we call Matador stud dogs, and some breed clubs go further than just recommendations.


Examples concerning registration ban :

For Hamiltonstövare (Swedish Foxhound) and Finnish Hound there is a registration ban for a stud dog after that they have sired 10 litters (from 2003-01-01).

For Schillerstövare and Smålandsstövare there is a registration ban for a stud dog after that they have sired 6 litters (from 2003-01-01).

For Swedish Lapphund there is a registration ban for a stud dog after that they have sired 25 or more puppies (from 2008-01-01).



Examples concerning recommendations :

The Swedish club for Finnish Lapphunds recommends that a stud dog should not have more than six litters at age 5. The inbreeding percentage for each mating should preferably be below 2,5%, but definitely not above 6,25%.

The Swedish club for Norwegian Buhunds recommends that bitch owners consider using stud dogs that have been judged as "very good" quality and not only stud dogs with champion titles. The inbreeding percentage for each mating should be below 3,5%.

The Swedish Kennelklubben recommends that, regardless of breed, the maximum number of offspring to a stud dog/broodbitch does not exceed 5% of the total number of registered animals during 5 years.

The Swedish club for Bullmastiffs recommends that a stud dog is not used in breeding after having sired 29 puppies (less if the stud dog have many full siblings also used in breeding).

The Swedish club for Bloodhounds simply says that it is incumbent for each breeder and stud dog owner to avoid matador stud dog breeding.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I think in Germany, GSD studs are limited as to the number of covers they can do, although it is still too high and I agree bottlenecking on popular sires can be a huge problem, as some of the problems they throw do not become apparent until one or two generations later, and I include my own, late dog in that. Would I go for a crossbreed or an unregistered dog because of that? Not a chance, at least with his paperwork I have it on record, where the problems came from and can make a more informed chance in future.

 

[Star_Chaser]

Lots of breeds in Europe are restricted on stud numbers. I know Denmark, Sweden, Holland & Germany for example have restrictions of three litters and after that they can only be used outside the population for my breed and for many of the Gundog breeds in general. Italy is pretty bad, UK, US, France dependant on breed.

Here though unless the KC step in its down to the breed clubs and you'll find at the AGMs where these decisions are made that the turnout are the large scale breeders who would lose their lucrative income from stud fees if there was a restriction put in place. So the vote is never carried I have seen some clubs actually put stud restrictions on the AGM just to get b*ms on seats so they have quorum

Personally I think this is something that will have to come in at some point because breeders are not going to restrict themselves, some are excellent and they do breeding rarely but a lot of bitch owners will go to the popular stud at the time just so that they can have better puppy sales