Acceptable arena use?

[domsmith]

I have a livery who is a happy hacker, hates using the arena. The only thing she uses it for is, after hacking she puts the horse and its companion donkey onto the surface to roll and play.

Am i being unreasonable in asking her not to do that? it makes me really mad. that arena cost me a fortune and the rest of us use it properly. its not doing any real harm other than leaving flat patches and the donkey will dig bits if not watched properly.
But i really feel she is quite disrespectful of the facility.

Any input appreciated

 

[Tobiano]

Well, you are the YO and therefore you can set the rules.

Personally, I don't see the problem unless she is damaging the arena in which case if it is bad damage that is a perfectly good reason to ask her not to. If it's mild damage that she can make good immediately then I'd ask her to do that and if she doesn't, ban her from using it in that way.

But to repeat, your yard, your rules!

 

[joulsey]

Your not being unreasonable, its your yard, your arena, your money spent and your rules.

Personally, all the yards I have been at have allowed this. 2 of them winter turnout is limited so it was good to be able to turn them out in there on days they were in. But I do know a lot of yards don't let liveries turn out to protect the surface.

She may take it badly and wonder why she wasn't told when she moved on...but hey ho

 

[glamourpuss]

If it's not doing any real harm, how is it disrespectful?
You might not consider it 'proper' use but I'm presuming she's paying for use of the facility & not damaging it. As long as she isn't leaving her horse & donkey in there for hours preventing others from riding in it then leave the poor woman be!

You could ask her to make sure the donkey doesn't dig holes & to rake over the flat bits but other than that I think stopping her sounds a bit spiteful

 

[Meowy Catkin]

It's your arena and if you don't want loose horses in it, then you can have that rule. I personally wouldn't mind the rolling or playing, but the digging would be an issue.

 

[kate2323]

having installed my own arena last year I am very protective of it ! I would NEVER EVER let anyone do this and as you are the owner I would say it is unacceptable ( verging on totally cheeky - sorry!) . Put a big sign up and while you are at it make sure no one allows their horse to pooh in the arena and not pick up and make sure all muddy hooves are picked out....arenas are precious and if they are to last we have to respect them.

 

[calmgirl]

It isn't disrespectful if there is no rule banning turnout or loose schooling or lunging.
That is up to you to communicate to your liveries.
Of the 4 surfaces at our yard only one has a ban on turnout etc, so not an unusual thing to do with an arena unless specified not too ( and a reasonable request too if it's not allowed)

 

[sasquatch]

Is there anywhere else she could use for winter turnout?

I can see how this might be an issue if someone was planning to ride and she had turned out into it, or if horses had dug or broken fencing when out in it.

If possible, could you make an area into winter turnout, and specify that the arena is only for riding, for turnout liveries are to use the specified turnout area as a sort of compromise?

 

[chocolategirl]

having installed my own arena last year I am very protective of it ! I would NEVER EVER let anyone do this and as you are the owner I would say it is unacceptable ( verging on totally cheeky - sorry!) . Put a big sign up and while you are at it make sure no one allows their horse to pooh in the arena and not pick up and make sure all muddy hooves are picked out....arenas are precious and if they are to last we have to respect them.

Had to laugh as this sounds just like me! I'm like a ruddy Rottweiler when it comes to my arena. It's been down 12 years, it cost me an arm and a leg ( not literally of course!) and it rides just as well now as it did all those years ago. And the reason is because I am VERY VERY strict about certain things. It was paid for out of my own pocket, not from livery income that's for sure, and I allow the liveries to use it. That said, I don't think I would have an issue provided there was no digging of the surface and they weren't left unattended and finally, feet were thoroughly cleaned before use. At the end of the day though, as others have said, your arena, your rules.

 

[domsmith]

There is full winter turnout. Her animals are out 7am to 5 pm every day.

part of the problem is we are making up the rules as we progress. this is my home/farm and we never intended to take liveries. all facilities have been put in for my use and now some liveries seem the next progression. they have crept on with out a proper plan. its worked ok but now i have 3 liveries and need to lay down some rules. cause common sense isnt always used and they do need to know whats acceptable.

entirely my own fault for not doing this to start.

 

[Equi]

Bit ott for me sorry. I love letting my lot into the sand to roll and fart, esp when they are in during bad weather etc. Just make the rule that if they dig the owner must undig.

 

[mjcssjw2]

as they are out during the dayi don't think there is really any need, if they were stuck in i would think its nice for them to go out. That said I think you need to get some rules in place quick. Maybe have a word with her and say you don't want loose horses in the arena - lots of places don't like loose horses esp if they are charging about. I would certainly want all manure removed as well.

 

[charlie76]

I think if you had was paid for and waited for a decent arena surface then you would appreciate why us yard owners don't like people allowing horses to hooley about and dig up the arena, once its wrecked its wrecked.
I would just tell her not to do it! Following a week of my liveries going nuts on the lunge and digging up my school I have asked for people not to lunge unless totally in control and with some can of tack / training aid on.
If they go through the surface they then tear the membrane then the surface is ruined.
Your yard, your rules!

 

[nikicb]

There is full winter turnout. Her animals are out 7am to 5 pm every day.

part of the problem is we are making up the rules as we progress. this is my home/farm and we never intended to take liveries. all facilities have been put in for my use and now some liveries seem the next progression. they have crept on with out a proper plan. its worked ok but now i have 3 liveries and need to lay down some rules. cause common sense isnt always used and they do need to know whats acceptable.

entirely my own fault for not doing this to start.

Ok, I totally get where you are coming from. These things do evolve and it is important to look after your facilities. I have a relatively new school and do turn my small pony out in there, but would never turn my others out there as they could easily damage the surface. If I was in your position, I would probably have a chat over a cuppa or even a glass of wine and explain that you just feel it's time to establish a few rules. At the end of the day its your yard. However, if I am looking at it from your point of view, I do understand how you would be a bit miffed. As a livery, I wouldn't dream of turning my horses out in a school unless I had express permission to do so. Maybe that's me, but I prefer to check what I can do rather than wait to be told I can't. Good luck.

 

[ester]

Most yards with decent surfaces don't allow turnout on them and if I ever had one it wouldn't be being used for that charging around and digging does them no good at all and they cost too much to install and to maintain - and I don't have one - sand pits only for that

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I have a livery who is a happy hacker, hates using the arena. The only thing she uses it for is, after hacking she puts the horse and its companion donkey onto the surface to roll and play.

Am i being unreasonable in asking her not to do that? it makes me really mad. that arena cost me a fortune and the rest of us use it properly. its not doing any real harm other than leaving flat patches and the donkey will dig bits if not watched properly.
But i really feel she is quite disrespectful of the facility.

Any input appreciated

Speaking for myself I think its a little petty after all they are paying for the facilities regardless of the use. As you say they don't use it any other time but still paying for the use but these odd occasions they use it.

The other thing you can do is ask her to fill any holes in after she has finished using the school

 

[Honey08]

Just tell her, nicely, that it's worrying you that the surface will get damaged if loose animals go in it, so could she just turn them out in the field to roll. I'm sure she just hadn't realised it was an issue.

Always best to say things calmly than let it build up..

 

[Gleeful Imp]

Completely agree that perfectly acceptable for you to say no turnout in the arena - its the cumulative impact that does the damage. We have a seperate turnout pen, and we are not allowed to free school, jump on the lunge, or allow horses to hoolie round on the lunge - no lunging allowed without side reins or other form of control! I don't necessarily agree with this, but them's the rule at our yard.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Completely agree that perfectly acceptable for you to say no turnout in the arena - its the cumulative impact that does the damage. We have a seperate turnout pen, and we are not allowed to free school, jump on the lunge, or allow horses to hoolie round on the lunge - no lunging allowed without side reins or other form of control! I don't necessarily agree with this, but them's the rule at our yard.

Wow you can lunge - free school- turnout- jump what ever in our schools. Would never have those restriction here even jump in the round pen and turnout in it.

Surely if you have a young horse not in side reins yet its a bit harsh?

 

[Polar Bear9]

I you haven't said she can't do it then no, I don't think its disrespectful. If you have a rule on 'no free schooling/ turnout' then yes, she's ignoring a rule.

If you have an issue with it then create a rule or talk to her

 

[WelshD]

If the horse doesn't do any damage and if the owner picks up poo etc a compromise may be to say that the donkey isn't allowed in because of its digging, as its a companion and not hacked out presumably there is no reason for it to join the horse for its after hack roll? You could add a comment about if the horse starts digging the surface that the horse would need to stop going in too

personally I wouldn't dream of using an arena in such a way simply for a rolling and play session if there was decent turnout but I don't necessarily think its disrespectful as such

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Ah but the donkey livery must include the use of the school surely its a facility which included. Unless the contract allows a cheaper livery for the donkey and does not include the use of the schools. Then really the facilities are there for all liveries with horses - donkey's- pony's.
If there is no rule up then really its not abusing the school.

 

[be positive]

Ah but the donkey livery must include the use of the school surely its a facility which included. Unless the contract allows a cheaper livery for the donkey and does not include the use of the schools. Then really the facilities are there for all liveries with horses - donkey's- pony's.
If there is no rule up then really its not abusing the school.

A rule needs to be clarified, a school is for the purpose of schooling, make it clear that no loose horses are allowed, no need to make a fuss just put up a notice and stick to it.

If a client pays for the use of the facilities but chooses not to use them for the purpose why should there be a reduction on what is probably a minimum livery anyway, a livery paying the average £25 per week DIY is never going to be making any significant contribution towards the cost of an arena which will be damaged if used inappropriately.
I don't allowed horses loose in mine, they have fields to roll, run around and play in, if a livery chooses not to use the school I have never been asked for a reduction and certainly would not give one, much the same if they choose not to turn out for some reason.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

A rule needs to be clarified, a school is for the purpose of schooling, make it clear that no loose horses are allowed, no need to make a fuss just put up a notice and stick to it.

If a client pays for the use of the facilities but chooses not to use them for the purpose why should there be a reduction on what is probably a minimum livery anyway, a livery paying the average £25 per week DIY is never going to be making any significant contribution towards the cost of an arena which will be damaged if used inappropriately.
I don't allowed horses loose in mine, they have fields to roll, run around and play in, if a livery chooses not to use the school I have never been asked for a reduction and certainly would not give one, much the same if they choose not to turn out for some reason.

I know that we don't and never will have rules to stop livery owners using the schools for what ever equine usage they choose. This sounds like there is no rule to stop you free schooling or turning out thus it is no disrespecting the yard.

If a client pays for the use of the facilities but chooses not to use them for the purpose why should there be a reduction
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?689802-Acceptable-arena-use#OOtdRvOJhe8iH7Ic.99

Because some livery packages allow this reduced rate so as not to included the school facility.

What happens at your place if they are on reduced exercise and vet says they can go in the school but not the fields???? Or lami prone and cannot go out to graze but can wander round the school.

 

[sasquatch]

There is full winter turnout. Her animals are out 7am to 5 pm every day.

part of the problem is we are making up the rules as we progress. this is my home/farm and we never intended to take liveries. all facilities have been put in for my use and now some liveries seem the next progression. they have crept on with out a proper plan. its worked ok but now i have 3 liveries and need to lay down some rules. cause common sense isnt always used and they do need to know whats acceptable.

entirely my own fault for not doing this to start.

I definitely think you need a yard meeting where you can all discuss rules and let them give their own two cents to any discussions.

If this is the only arena on the yard, and I was a livery, my concern would be if I wanted to school/had a horse who didn't hack out well and someone else had turned their horse and donkey out when I wanted to ride. Even if I brought horse and donkey in (which I wouldn't feel comfortable doing without owners permission!), if they'd churned up the surface, dug holes or left it very uneven and had lots of poos to pick up, it could take me some time before I was actually able to ride in it as I'd be sorting out the arena as well.
Might seem like something minor for some, but to me it would be an issue as my horse isn't the best to hack.

Definitely think you are in need of a yard meeting, so you can get all your rules and issues sorted before they cause any major friction and problems on your yard. Wish you the best of luck, OP!

 

[Umbongo]

I personally don't see the problem. Assuming she isn't turning out for ages on it and it's just a 10 minute roll in the sand?
I have been on many yards where this was allowed,and have even worked on a professional racing and hunting yard where this was the norm! After the mornings exercise we untacked and turned out in the sand school for them to all have a roll, then rug and turn out in field.

So long as the horses are not digging too much and causing damage, or keeping them out in it for more than 10-15 minutes and someone else wants to use the school then I don't think it is being disrespectful as you have not set any rules. I would also ensure that she pick up any poo and fill in any dips/rake the surface? I would think that equally as much/more damage could be done by lunging, free schooling, jumping etc? Particularly with excited farty/broncing horses!

However it is your yard and your rules, and you need to perhaps have a yard meeting and sort out what you would like to happen

 

[Boulty]

Is it the rolling, the digging or the general loose horses in arena you have a problem with? If it's the rolling and digging you could ask that no animals to be left in arena unsupervised. If the loose horses then introduce a no loose schooling rule. It's your arena so your rules really. Current yard doesn't have a problem with loose horses as long as they're supervised and there's not a que of people wanting to use the arena but my prev one didn't allow any loose schooling (they had a horse jump out once plus were a RS and arena could be seen from the road so wanted to look professional at all times). I wouldn't say where I am that the loose horses do any more damage than the amount of general riding abuse but arena maintenance is rather lax anyway...

 

[Caol Ila]

I'd love to see your shiny new arena, Dom.

My yard does not allow turnout in the arena because horses can really trash a surface when they dig and my YO has spent a lot of money on a nice, all-weather surface. I have been to other yards were there is no such rule, and you can see the cumulative effect of rolling and digging. And while rolling is not so bad, most equids dig around before they roll! It makes the surface uneven and kind of a pain to ride in.

 

[monkeybum13]

Of course you can ask her not to turn out on your arena. If I had my own arena I would never let anyone turn out on it!

I don't understand why she has to do it if they get daily turnout anyway?

 

[PolarSkye]

I'd love to see your shiny new arena, Dom.

My yard does not allow turnout in the arena because horses can really trash a surface when they dig and my YO has spent a lot of money on a nice, all-weather surface. I have been to other yards were there is no such rule, and you can see the cumulative effect of rolling and digging. And while rolling is not so bad, most equids dig around before they roll! It makes the surface uneven and kind of a pain to ride in.

This really. FWIW, I think she is being disrespectful and inconsiderate by not asking you first if she is allowed to turn her horse and donkey out in your arena. Yes, her livery fee includes use of the school - but a school is for riding in (or lunging at YO's discretion) not for turnout - that's what fields and stables are for.

I wouldn't dream of just turning my horse out in an arena to charge about, dig and roll without first asking the YO . . . and I wouldn't take umbrage if I was denied permission to do so. I'll go further - I'd rather not be on a yard where the arena is treated as a playpen for horses to muck about in, roll, dig and generally ruin the surface . . . I'm rather picky about the surface my horse works on these days .

P