Acceptable condition to discharge a horse after operation?

I think you are right to complain. vets are a business like any other and you are paying for it. I would be concerned about the level of nursing care in the practice if they think its ok to send a animal home like that
 
I don't think its really acceptable but I wouldn't go too mad.I would complain quietly how disappointed you are. My boy had emergency colic 5 years ago. raced to surgery 20 miles away after being in the field when it happened. He was covered from top to bottom in mud and was in hell of a state. he survived the operation and when I visited at 8 the next morning I couldn't believe my eyes. Big was immaculate! He was gleaming.Spotless. Not one inch of mud on him. It made me cry.When I thanked the lovely nurse she said in her Australian accent " Well when you are feeling a bit crook you still want to feel clean don't you?" I felt the cleanliness reflected the level of care my boy got.I visited every day,all at different times, for his remaining 14 days and he was always spotless.I think it boils down to standards and as an owner it does comfort you that someone cares enough to ensure your boy is clean and tidy.However I would be chuffed with a good result from the surgery !!!! Good Luck in his recovery xxx
 
Why be happy with mediocre care ?
I prefer high standards and the omission of a two minute job is an indication that other tasks are done in a slap dash way.

I'm with you on this one, CPTrayes.
 
Patterdale said:
:eek:
Are you for real!?

FTR, NO, I do NOT send my mechanic a thank you card.....but then my car is not a living thing to whom I am extremely attached.
Oh, and congrats on single-handedly propping up the whole of the customer services industry. I hadnt realised that it was all down to you, so kudos on that.

Cptrayes, judging by this thread and previous ones you seem to be an absolute nightmare. So as you didn't really want opinions, ill change my answer -

OMG, dried blood, REALLY!!? You're KIDDING!! How is your horse still BREATHING!? ANYTHING could have happened! Nasty letter???? I'd scrape off the evidence and send it to them as proof! Good op result you say??? Pfffft, that's not the POINT! Your horse had DRIED. BLOOD. On his fur! His ACTUAL FUR! What's the world coming too!?
And you say you paid £36 a DAY for this?? And no one could find an hour to give him a good strapping!? SHOCKING! Once you pay for 2 nurses to check him round the clock, the overheads on a vet hospital (which can't be much, COME ON!) and the other costs, there should have been plenty left!
I am actually OUTRAGED on your behalf! Go forth, complain, COMPLAIN like you never have before, and save all the rest of us poor consumers from poor service.


:rolleyes:
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Funniest post ever!
 
I think you've done the right thing. It's easy to feel outraged when emotions are high. I wouldn't be happy with this either - yes, blood is expected after surgery and if you'd picked him up straight away - fine. But 48 hours later is too long! It's nothing to do with how much you've paid or whether it's a vet nurse's job to groom the horse, it's all about the comfort of the post-op pony. I expect the hair was matted and crispy under the blood and would have been uncomfortable (yes, only mildly, but still uncomfortable) for the horse that is possibly already unavoidably uncomfortable post-surgery. I would expect that the livery cost is high precisely because the horse is being regularly monitored - to me that includes monitoring for comfort, and anything that could be done to improve his comfort should have been done - and that includes a gentle brush / sponge to clean him up. A bit of dried blood isn't the end of the world, and not worth a really grumpy letter but definitely worth a polite enquiry - it's the timeframe that's the worry really. Lovely to hear all these stories of horses coming back polished and sparkling though - what a relief after the stress of worrying during surgery!
 
No I would not be very happy. It is not as if you are asking for him to get 'an hour of good strapping' - sponging off some blood is a 30 second job and it isn't good enough to be lax on that IMO.
 
Biglets Mummy said:
I don't think its really acceptable but I wouldn't go too mad.I would complain quietly how disappointed you are. My boy had emergency colic 5 years ago. raced to surgery 20 miles away after being in the field when it happened. He was covered from top to bottom in mud and was in hell of a state. he survived the operation and when I visited at 8 the next morning I couldn't believe my eyes. Big was immaculate! He was gleaming.Spotless. Not one inch of mud on him. It made me cry.When I thanked the lovely nurse she said in her Australian accent " Well when you are feeling a bit crook you still want to feel clean don't you?" I felt the cleanliness reflected the level of care my boy got.I visited every day,all at different times, for his remaining 14 days and he was always spotless.I think it boils down to standards and as an owner it does comfort you that someone cares enough to ensure your boy is clean and tidy.However I would be chuffed with a good result from the surgery !!!! Good Luck in his recovery xxx
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In your case they probably cleaned him as part of prepping for the operation - would you want your broken leg fixed while you were still covered in mud from where you fell off???

My horse went into Leahurst for observation for a week and her livery was just skipping out, feeding and watering. I went down and groomed her for an hour every night after work (80 mile round trip) to cheer her up and see for myself that she was ok. I wouldn't have dreamed of expecting nurses/grooms to do that. They were far too busy dealing with a yard full of other horses, many of which were very seriously ill - the one in the stable next door was recumbant the entire time and wasn't expected to live.

As for myself, I left hospital with dried blood from where they took out the chest-drain below my armpit before they left me go, and after I had my wisdom teeth out I had dried blood smeared in my hair and on my face. I probably alarmed a few people on the bus mind you!
 
Moomin1 said:
Puncturing him is probably a bit unnecessary!
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Impossible to get 45 ml of depocillin into a muscle without Moomn :) he's been SO good about it, too.



As an update, I have received an apology from the head of the practice saying that it was totally unacceptable, so we can put it behind us now and get on with the rehab, which is only six weeks to getting back on him. He is so loose and flexible it's a joy to see.
 
If its a back op(kissing spine) they won't wash down as bandage quickly to wake horse up. I know mine looked like that after ks surgery - they get them out of surgery as soon as poss, need area to dry to get bandage to stick.

Just read ur update. Glad they apologised and glad ur horse looking better and looser :)
 
They DID wash him down. The operation site had been completely washed off, they just didn't finish the job. It was a standing sedated ligament desmotomy. He was not bandaged.
 
cptrayes said:
It's 'whiny' people like me who improve poor service for grateful people like you :)

I don't know why some people are still so deferential about the service sold by vets. Do you give your car mechanic a thankyou card? He is at least as skilled as a vet nurse, so if not, why not?

Don't feel too sorry for the vet team. I paid part of their wages the last two months. Without me being there to whine someone might have lost a job.
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I have to agree I am with you at least partly on this I just don't understand people who are grateful to the vets .
I admire vets who are good at their jobs and respect their skill and professionalism they provide a service for which I pay, but then I have similar view of surgeons .
I would be calmly pointing out to the pracise that you where not happy with the condition of the horse on discharge and that you sent him in clean and think he should have been returned that way.
My vet has issues with horses arriving for surgery filthy so it goes both ways sometimes.
But in the big scheme of thing the horse is through surgery in one piece and that's the main thing.
But I think it would put in my mind they are not to be trusted with my horses as in patients in the future it's sloppy and that would bother me.
 
I am an equine nurse and we never ever sent horses home looking like that, he would have been cleaned off that evening if hed had a morning surgery or the following morning if hed been done in the afternoon.

All horses got a brush over every day, feet picked out when mucked out and those that had had surgery had a sponge wash if necessary to remove sweat marks from being recumbant, even colic surgeries were clean and sparkly the next day!

We had a referral surgical colic come in in mid winter living out 24/7, you couldnt even tell what colour it was meant to be it as it was coveredc in such thick wet mud, it was power washed before surgery to remove as much as possible to reduce comtamination to theatre and then we finished the next day after hed had surgery, when his owners came to visit him you couldnt even tell hed been unrugged colicing in sludge other than his post surgical additions ( belly band, iv fluids, stomach tube and muzzle ) and he was grey!!

Had we ever dared send a horse home anything other than spotless we wouldhave had the biggest b*ll*cking ever, and we didnt have grooms employed us nurses did all the inpatient care, nursing and yard duties.

There was no reason for that horse to be discharged with blood on it.
 
Patterdale said:
It's a bit of dried blood.
Your horse is fine, the op was a success (I'm guessing because of the skill and diligence of the staff, not just pure luck) and he is home healthy and happy, with a clean, and not infected wound.
However, you were considering sending them a howler because he had a bit of dried blood on his side.

My opinion is that you are just being whiny tbh. You strike me as someone who likes to be up in arms about something.

I feel for the poor veterinary team who have cared for your horse and put him through a successful op, and instead of a thank you card will be receiving a photo of a bit of dried blood and a guilt trip.
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This, 100%.
 
I find it quite interesting how many people on this thread approve of someone who is paid to do a job not doing it properly..

Luckily, the head of the practice does not agree with you and neither do any of the people who have posted who have actually done the job themselves.
 
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cptrayes said:
I find it quite interesting how many people on this thread approve of someone who is paid to do a job not doing it properly..

Luckily, the head of the practice does not agree with you and neither do any of the people who have posted who have actually done the job themselves.
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I agree with you. This thread, along with a couple of others prove how much the standard of horse care andknowledge are slipping. That people think its ok is worrying.
 
cptrayes said:
I find it quite interesting how many people on this thread approve of someone who is paid to do a job not doing it properly..

Luckily, the head of the practice does not agree with you and neither do any of the people who have posted who have actually done the job themselves.
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I think you are misunderstanding how some vet surgeries work. For example my old vet surgery in Shrops farmed out the livery side of things so that you paid one bill for vet services and one bill for livery services. The livery included mucking out, feeding and rugging, not grooming. I can easily imagine a situation where the nurses in a very busy but relatively small referral practice got called away to another skilled veterinary task and your horse's small amount of dried blood on his side was missed - hardly worth stopping the press for!

Large teaching hospitals may well have student vets and student nurses who are more available to do general jobs like grooming and tidying up horses.

You do come across as a bit ungrateful, focusing on something so minor...and do remember that you asked for opinions!
 
Booboos said:
I think you are misunderstanding how some vet surgeries work. For example my old vet surgery in Shrops farmed out the livery side of things so that you paid one bill for vet services and one bill for livery services. The livery included mucking out, feeding and rugging, not grooming. I can easily imagine a situation where the nurses in a very busy but relatively small referral practice got called away to another skilled veterinary task and your horse's small amount of dried blood on his side was missed - hardly worth stopping the press for!

Large teaching hospitals may well have student vets and student nurses who are more available to do general jobs like grooming and tidying up horses.

You do come across as a bit ungrateful, focusing on something so minor...and do remember that you asked for opinions!
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I have not tried to prevent anyone expressing an opinion. Are you suggesting that I should not reply?

You don't know anything about where he was yet you are trying to tell me how they are managed. I can assure you that there were plenty of staff with time to have done the job.

You also don't know what I am focussing on, you only know that in between caring for my horse I spent a bit if time on HHO asking if I would be right to complain, and toned down my message to my vet as a result of the answers I got. Why don't you also comment on my other thread saying how good the surgeon was and tell me what a nice grateful person I come across as?

I do not understand why I am expected to be grateful that people who have been paid to do a job do it.

Do you expect me also to be grateful to the car mechanic who fixes my brakes? If he gets it wrong I could kill someone, yet no one expects me to send him a thank you card.
 
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cptrayes said:
I have not tried to prevent anyone expressing an opinion. Are you suggesting that I should not reply?

You don't know anything about where he was yet you are trying to tell me how they are managed. I can assure you that there were plenty of staff with time to have done the job.

You also don't know what I am focussing on, you only know that in between caring for my horse I spent a bit if time on HHO asking if I would be right to complain, and toned down my message to my vet as a result of the answers I got. Why don't you also comment on my other thread saying how good the surgeon was and tell me what a nice grateful person I come across as?

I do not understand why I am expected to be grateful that people who have been paid to do a job do it.

Do you expect me also to be grateful to the car mechanic who fixes my brakes? If he gets it wrong I could kill someone, yet no one expects me to send him a thank you card.
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You were at Cotts! ;) It's kind of easy to figure out from the details of the operation you described.

I haven't seen your other thread.

No idea what the car mechanic has to do with it although I suspect some people do thank their car mechanics! I got mine a bottle for getting my horsebox registered in France.
 
Just an aside really as I don't like commenting on something I don't know much about!

But is blood best washed off a horse or brushed out when dried? A serious question as it is well known you should not try to wash blood off a tweed coat but let it dry and then brush it out. That way it doesn't leave a stain.

As for the dog example, I'd expect one of my dogs to lick the blood off and would be quite happy for him to do so as saliva has antiseptic properties.

Not sure I would want a lot of water, possibly contaminated with hair and faeces (?) anywhere near a wound so another possible reason to leave the area dry.

Personally, I don't think I'd be making a fuss. After all, the vet has apparently done a good job in all other respects. But I might raise a polite query asking a few pointed questions at a later date!
 
I'd be grateful I got my horse back well, I'd probably not even think twice about it. Ok so they could have possibly tidied up a bit better, but meh, horse is fine, operation is done. They may well have had emergencies come in, or staff go off sick so nice things got missed off in favour of essentials.

Life is just to short for me to get het up over stuff like that.
 
Dry Rot said:
Just an aside really as I don't like commenting on something I don't know much about!

But is blood best washed off a horse or brushed out when dried? A serious question as it is well known you should not try to wash blood off a tweed coat but let it dry and then brush it out. That way it doesn't leave a stain.

As for the dog example, I'd expect one of my dogs to lick the blood off and would be quite happy for him to do so as saliva has antiseptic properties.

Not sure I would want a lot of water, possibly contaminated with hair and faeces (?) anywhere near a wound so another possible reason to leave the area dry.

Personally, I don't think I'd be making a fuss. After all, the vet has apparently done a good job in all other respects. But I might raise a polite query asking a few pointed questions at a later date!
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Dog saliva is not antiseptic - that is such an old wives tail. Dog mouths are disgusting places. Why is it all my wounds heal amazingly when the owner bothers to keep the buster collar on but those who think it's not necessary are the ones who come back in with horrible wound infections and need antibiotics or restitching.
 
My horse came home from stifle arthroscopy with dried blood all down his back legs but to be fair they did apologise profusely but had left it because it was winding him up attempting to clean it.. He doesn't let people touch his legs apart from me and probably would have hurt someone if they'd persisted.
I wouldn't send a dog home from surgery with dried blood on it and I know I would get it in the ear from the owner if I did. I can see how that blood was missed though as it blends in with the coat on first look. Vet nurses tend to be running round trying to do ten things at once and pretty sure it was a genuine mistake rather than a deliberate lack of care. I would be mentioning it to the vet in charge but no more than that.
 
I really hope this doesn't come across as patronizing, it's not meant like that at all.
You've had a stressful time worrying about the operation and I'm guessing from what you've written were anxious about the treatment before your horse was admitted, due to past experiences.
I wouldn't have been best pleased with seeing blood on my horse had I been you and like to think I'd have pointed it out to someone before I took my horse home. However I'm not you, I wasn't in the highly emotive, worrying situation that you were and I wonder if now you've got your horse home and in your care, you're a little calmer and able to think clearer about the error.
When my horse had surgery I had a very public fit over a lead rope.
We all need to vent sometimes and that's the impression I got from your posts.
Good luck with your boy for the future and I hope he continues to improve.
 
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Med J exactly. And no not patronising at all, just someone who is able to identify and empathise with normal human frailty. What a nice person you are :)
 
star said:
Dog saliva is not antiseptic - that is such an old wives tail. Dog mouths are disgusting places. Why is it all my wounds heal amazingly when the owner bothers to keep the buster collar on but those who think it's not necessary are the ones who come back in with horrible wound infections and need antibiotics or restitching.
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Wound licking
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A gorilla licking a wound
Wound licking is an instinctive response in humans and many other animals to an injury. Dogs, cats, rodents and primates all lick wounds.[1] The enzyme lysozyme is found in many tissues and is known to attack the cell walls of many gram-positive bacteria, aiding in defense against infection. Tears are also beneficial to wounds due to the lysozyme enzyme.

Lots more where that came from if I didn't already know that you are talking nonsense.
 
Oh yes because Wikipedia is a far superior source of information to 5yrs at vet school and 7yrs in practice dealing with wound infections from idiot owners who let their dogs lick their wounds.
 
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