Accidental killing of foxes

[Hebegebe]

POWA want to make accidental chasing and killing of wold mammals by dogs illegal. Effectively banning many people from having their dogs off the lead in areas where foxes, deer, squirrels, mice or other wild mammals are present.

Approximately 100,000 foxes and numerous other animals are accidently killed on the roads.

Should it be illegal to drive a car down a road which a wild mammal might be crossing?

 

[joe_carby]

yes course it could. oh no wait that would be an inconvienience (spelling) to the people who know nothing about it as well as us

 

[Grey_Eventer]

oh dear god...will they ever stop... no i doubt it!

 

[weebarney]

Thing is i wouldnt let my retired greyhound loose where my pet rabbit is because i know it would probably kill it, in fact the greyhound doesnt get off the lead all that much as i know she might run away or she might chase something . On the other hand my little mongrel is off the lead quite a lot as i know she is unlikely to chase anything and if she did see something of interest a quick shout and she will come back to me. So i think its a case of using common sense.

 

[combat_claire]

Regardless of whether Weebarney's mongrel comes back immediately it is the act of chasing that they wish to see made illegal - nothing to do with the duration of the chase.

Surely chasing quarry is a natural instinct in canines and should be encouraged, not suppressed by keeping them on a lead at all times.

 

[Scratchline]

Surely chasing quarry is a natural instinct in canines and should be encouraged, not suppressed by keeping them on a lead at all times.

And fighting dogs/guard dogs should be running around off leads killing also??

 

[Hebegebe]

She didn't mention killing.

My dogs chase animals sometimes. I can't see the harm in it.

They love chasing squirrels and why not. At the end of the day the squirrels run up a tree.

I know they will chase them and they do.

Why should I be made a criminal for that?

Making people criminals over such nonsense matters just devalues the concept of crime.

 

[ladyt25]

My dogs chase squirrels and rabbits and have previously (well one who's rather adept at rabbit hunting) eaten rabbits when they've caught them. I have tried to stop them and shouted at them but it is their natural instinct, it has also only ever happened on our own land. Our stable cat regularly catches and eats rabbits (not the blooming rats he's supposed to get!).

What would be counted as a 'wild animal' and what is a pest? I would not actively encourage my dogs to kill anything and, let's face it they stand little chance of catching a squirrel or indeed a deer (they are worn out long before the deer is). It's natural. Rabbits, deer, squirrels, mice and rats are effectively prey animals and so being killed by another animal is mother nature's way in reality.

I guess the exception is a fox - that is a predator NOT a prey animal but then again my dogs are v v unlikely to be able to chase and attack a healthy fox. In all the years we've had our dogs and we have/had a family of foxes living in woods bordering our field, our dogs have never shown much interest in chasing them as the fox has soon outrun them and vanished.

I don't agree with an unfair 'hunt' of an animal where that animal has no chance of escape but mother nature can be cruel and a natural chase of prey by a predator is how life goes.

 

[kerro05]

everything is getting far out of hand if we had to protect pest all our life we would be bombarded with them !!!!

 

[combat_claire]

I guess the exception is a fox - that is a predator NOT a prey animal

But before man in his wisdom made the bear extinct in this country, the fox was a prey animal as well as a predator. Fox hunting in its traditional sense seeks to correct the imbalance in the ecosystem following this extinction, as the fox currently has no top predator in the wild.

I don't agree with an unfair 'hunt' of an animal where that animal has no chance of escape but mother nature can be cruel and a natural chase of prey by a predator is how life goes.

So by that reasoning you should be in favour of fox hunting! This only has two outcomes - complete escape or a quick death. There isn't any escape from a snare, the chances of outwitting a lamping expedition must be similarly low and poison condemns them to a slow and painful death, no antidote there either.

 

[combat_claire]

Didn't Kate Hoey once remark that foxes were rats with a good PR team... :grin:

 

[ladyt25]

I am not pro or anti fox hunting as such - personally i don't get any pleasure from seeing anything killed so i wouldn't go and join in an activity where that was the aim. I do wholly agree with you yes, a healthy fox should be able to escape so, in reality hunts really would never catch that many foxes, only sthe sick or injured. However, what I don't agree with is foxes that have gone to ground being dug up.

And yes, if man hadn't interfered in the first place then fox numbers would have naturally been kept in check by the likes of bears/wolves. The intevention of man generally messes up nature, that's awell known fact.

I certainly do not agree with poisoning or snaring at all.

Just a thought though - if the accidental killing of ANY wild animal was to be illegal, would it just be if killed by dogs? What about cats killing birds, mice etc etc?? Hmm, would love to see that enforced! hehe

 

[Scratchline]

She didn't mention killing.

No, I did. In relation to natural intstinct. Just because something is in a domesticated dogs instict it doesnt mean we automatically should accept it as okay.
The examples I gave were dogs that would naturally wish to attack other dogs or those who's instinct is to attack people.
If those types of dog need to be controlled and can be, then all dogs could be on a lead and controlled. I dont really see a difference.

 

[Hebegebe]

They could be I grant you that but should they all have to be on a lead? That's my question.

I love taking my dpgs out and I love them being off the lead.

In actual fact they have hardly ever been on a lead and one of them is completely unleadable.

yes they chase squirrels the odd deer and a hare or fox if one pops up and yes i am aware of that.

Is that really that bad and is it bad enough for me to be made a criminal because I do this?

Isn't going out for some fresh air and letting the dogs have a good romp around on one's own property a symbol of our freedom? I know it is for me.

 

[Scratchline]

My dogs chase animals sometimes. I can't see the harm in it.

They love chasing squirrels and why not. At the end of the day the squirrels run up a tree.

I know they will chase them and they do.

Why should I be made a criminal for that?

Making people criminals over such nonsense matters just devalues the concept of crime.

I am not sure you would feel the same if it was a bigger, badder dog chasing your little pooch. Perhaps with the other owner suggestinghe knows his dog will chase yours but he cannot see the harm in it.
You never know. If your dog was sick.....or old.....it may just get torn to shreds (

 

[Hebegebe]

So do you think that the law should require all dogs to be kept on leads then?

I probably wouldn't be that pleased but if it didn't hurt my pooch I wouldn't be that bothered.

My dogs have only ever killed one rat and maybe two or three rabbits.

 

[endymion]

I'm campaiging for it to be illegal for cats to kill other animals. Mudering b*stards!!!

 

[Hebegebe]

I'm campaiging for it to be illegal for cats to kill other animals. Mudering b*stards!!!

Well from a strict animal welfare point of view my cats have caused far more suffering than my dogs and probably than the local hunt so I can kind of see the point in that.

At the end if the day I own them so I have responsibility for them.

However they keep the rats and mice down and its better than poisoning them which would kill the barn owls.

 

[Scratchline]

But before man in his wisdom made the bear extinct in this country

In about 500AD lol lol lol

 

[Hebegebe]

But before man in his wisdom made the bear extinct in this country

In about 500AD lol lol lol

and lynx, they were predators of foxes too as well as wolves and wolverines.

 

[Scratchline]

So do you think that the law should require all dogs to be kept on leads then?

I wouldnt argue against such a law and it would have many advantages from a safety point of view.
On a very serious note, many of us keep our dogs on leads to protect other peoples pets, even other people. I see no reason why all dogs couldnt be excercised that way if deemed necessary.

 

[Scratchline]

and lynx, they were predators of foxes too as well as wolves and wolverines.

SSSSSSHHHHHH. She didnt mention them!! )

 

[Hebegebe]

But there aren't any other people's pets where I take my dogs and if there were they can bugger off!

 

[Scratchline]

" Get orf my land"! ) lol lol

 

[peakpark]

We have two whippets which need a proper run off the lead. It would be cruel to keep them on a lead and thus never let them out of a walk (or slow trot if the walker jogged).

 

[weebarney]

Its not a case of keeping them on a lead at all times its keeping them on a lead if they have a dog which chases and tries to kill animals is somewhere it is likely to go chasing after animals and trying to kill them or if somone has a dog which isnt trained and doesnt listen to them it shouldnt be off a lead in the first place.

 

[Hebegebe]

When my dogs are off the lead they sometimes give chase but then I call them off.

with deer they just bugger off at three times the speed so not a problem

with squirrels its the same thing

yes I am sure the dogs try to kill the wild mammals but the never do.

 

[Silverspring]

*** You are ignoring this user ***

Hahahaha! :grin:

 

[marlyclay]

POWA want to make accidental chasing and killing of wold mammals by dogs illegal. Effectively banning many people from having their dogs off the lead in areas where foxes, deer, squirrels, mice or other wild mammals are present.

Approximately 100,000 foxes and numerous other animals are accidently killed on the roads.

Should it be illegal to drive a car down a road which a wild mammal might be crossing?

Well try telling my jack russells they are not allowed to kill the cute little furry rats that they find in our barn.(If they could speak they would salute POWA with two fingers.)They have been bred for just that purpose for centuries as have all breeds of dog over time it is their natural instinct.
Although if you look at the little dears in my avatar they look more at home eating,sleeping and farting on the sofa!!

 

[peakpark]

Come to think of it, I'm surprised Labour haven't already made it an offence to have a dog off the lead. It's the sort of law that's right up their street:
More petty rules and regulations.
Would affect otherwise law abiding people.
Would be virtually unenforceable.


Anyway, it's not too late for them to pass such an act - if they've got time in between watching porn films at the tax payer's expense.