Accidental killing of foxes

[marlyclay]

[quoteWell try telling my jack russells they are not allowed to kill the cute little furry rats that they find in our barn.(If they could speak they would salute POWA with two fingers.)They have been bred for just that purpose for centuries as have all breeds of dog over time it is their natural instinct.

Good post????????? Tell my staffies they are not allowed to rip your little Jack Russels to bits if they find them in the street. They have been bred for that purpose for centuries, it is their natural instinct now!

See the flaw in your arguement now?! ) [/quote]


No i don't see your argument.You wouldn't find my jacks loose on the street ,i am a responsible dog owner.It would seem that you sadly are not.Which is a shame for your staffies.I love staffs they are a highly intelligent and loyal breed of dog and yes they have been bred to fight other dogs which is why you would not willingly allow them to be loose on the street in the first place.Your point is flawed and deeply irresponsible.

 

[Hebegebe]

Quite agree! Killing rats with dogs is good. Killing other dogs is bad.

It's not hard!

 

[weebarney]

To those posting claiming it is cruel to keep a whippet on the lead i would have to say that is rubbish, I have an adopted ex racing/hare coursing greyhound from a recognised greyhound rescue charity. In the literature you recieve with the dog is advice on exercising them and it states that they will do fine with 2x 15 minute walks a day as they tire quickly. Even after their racing/ coursing days are over they still have it in them to chase and kill small furry things including cats and small dogs. As they are sighthounds they can see small things moving in the distance and just go for it and before they know it they are lost or could easily end up being hit by a car. Is it not more humane to keep it on the leader when neccessary to prevent some poor person seeing their pet dog or cat ripped apart in front of them?

 

[Hebegebe]

I don't know about whippets but my dogs have never killed a cat or a dog.

They do sometimes chase my cat but such is life!

 

[FestiveSpirit]

I too have ex-racing greyhounds from a recognised greyhound rescue charity.... oddly this charity suggests 20-30 minutes of exercise twice a day, and also clearly states that although greyhounds are used to walking on leads and do so nicely (as they are required to do when in training) it is also important for them to be allowed to run free in a safe & appropriate environment.

As a responsible sighthound owner I ensure that my dogs are exercised twice a day in such an environment - they understand recall and therefore do not get "lost" and there is no possibility of them being hit by a car. They also do not have the opoortunity to "rip apart" some pet dog or cat!

A responsible sighthound owner will NOT keep their dog on a lead all of the time - they will ensure BEFORE they take on such a dog that they have the proper facilities available to exercise it safely and responsibly.

Mine are exercised in the large XC field at our livery yard and yes - oh my goodness! - they DO occasionally chase and kill rabbits!!!! As this is entirely natural behaviour for them it does not concern me in the least....

 

[lastrebel]

Clare

I don't agree with an unfair 'hunt' of an animal where that animal has no chance of escape but mother nature can be cruel and a natural chase of prey by a predator is how life goes.

So by that reasoning you should be in favour of fox hunting! This only has two outcomes - complete escape or a quick death. There isn't any escape from a snare, the chances of outwitting a lamping expedition must be similarly low and poison condemns them to a slow and painful death, no antidote there either.

So from what you have said you must hold terrier men with the same contempt as I do.

 

[Hebegebe]

I don't know a lot about terrier work but I suspect it causes less suffering than lamping.

I could be wroing though, educate me.

 

[weebarney]

omg i better tell the bloke who came out and did the home visit that his advice is completely wrong and that he should never have rehomed that greyhound with me as i dont have a xc field with rabbits for them to kill.
Better break it gently to the greyhound that unfortunately my secure garden is not enough for her and she must return to the kennels, better still send her back to her previous owners who were going to give her the bullet at only 2 years old.

 

[lastrebel]

Well BASC say lamping is ok so it must be.
Terrier men kind of lose the pro arguement about healthy foxes getting away and there being a fair chance of escape for the fox.
Oh and the main reason I despise fox hunting. which is a shame really because to be honest I agree with a lot of the pro arguements but if you mix with scum like that then...........
Shame none of them read otherwise it would be amusing to hear them try to defend themselves.

 

[Hebegebe]

Well BASC say lamping is ok so it must be.
Terrier men kind of lose the pro arguement about healthy foxes getting away and there being a fair chance of escape for the fox.
Oh and the main reason I despise fox hunting. which is a shame really because to be honest I agree with a lot of the pro arguements but if you mix with scum like that then...........
Shame none of them read otherwise it would be amusing to hear them try to defend themselves.

I don't allow digging out on my land

 

[Hebegebe]

now now WB this is a grown up forum!

 

[weebarney]

Is it?

 

[weebarney]

Anyhow i dont go out accidently killing anything so i have nothing to worry about.
If anyone comes acroos the perfect place for my dog to be off the lead for every walk please let me know!
It must have perfectly secure boundry that she cant climb through or jump, no small furry things, no rabbit holes that she might catch her delicate legs in, no access to roads, within walking distance of home.......

 

[lastrebel]

And thats why Hebegebe I believe there is a compromise to be had here.

 

[Hebegebe]

Do you drive a car?

 

[Scratchline]

scratchline, did you not realise that if you think that ripping wild animals apart with dogs is cruel then that makes you a townie?

lol lol I realise that, that sort of attitude by certain pro hunt supporters is the very reason they cannot "unite", those of us who do live and work in the countryside. Had this ever have been about town versus country the law would never have been achieved because of the strength of a united countryside vote! The reality is that most people in the countryside do not want anything to do with hunting or those involved because they believe it to be cruel and causes unecessary suffering both by the chase and the kill.

The running down of wild animals with dogs is not about welfare or conservation. It is about sport. And bloodsports have no place in our society. They live in the past with dog/cockfighting, bull and badger baiting. The live in the bad old days, the shame of our ancestors.

 

[Scratchline]

Quite agree! Killing rats with dogs is good. Killing other dogs is bad.

It's not hard!

PMSL )) Marlyclay obviously completely missed the point I was making as expected lol lol lol Now I am a knuckledragging hoodied thug who sets his dogs on other peoples???

Oh to be a responsible dog owner bud!

 

[Scratchline]

I don't know a lot about terrier work but I suspect it causes less suffering than lamping.

I could be wroing though, educate me.

Basically its "underground", ( excuse the pun), dog fighting with only one of the dogs willing and the other a wild fox. Anyone who would argue against this should view the scars on digging dogs and compare them to pit fighting dogs.

The difference between pit fighting dogs and digging is that in the pit, a dog can "choose", not to continue the fight and it is over, both live. In digging, one dog, the wild dog ( fox), is murdered for want of a better description. The terrriers terribly suffer. The fox terribly sufferers. And in my honest opinion dog fighting is less cruel and should be legalised before digging although both are abhorant and have no place in our society!!!

 

[Scratchline]

P.s I was of course talking about 'real', dog fighting, a test of gameness. NOT todays problem mostly involving the Asian community with no rules, which often result in death of one or both dogs.

Sorry if that sounds in any way racist. It is not meant to be and a simple truth about the people invovled.

 

[Scratchline]

To those posting claiming it is cruel to keep a whippet on the lead i would have to say that is rubbish, I have an adopted ex racing/hare coursing greyhound from a recognised greyhound rescue charity. In the literature you recieve with the dog is advice on exercising them and it states that they will do fine with 2x 15 minute walks a day as they tire quickly. Even after their racing/ coursing days are over they still have it in them to chase and kill small furry things including cats and small dogs. As they are sighthounds they can see small things moving in the distance and just go for it and before they know it they are lost or could easily end up being hit by a car. Is it not more humane to keep it on the leader when neccessary to prevent some poor person seeing their pet dog or cat ripped apart in front of them?

Excellent post, well said )

 

[Hebegebe]

"The running down of wild animals with dogs is not about welfare or conservation."

That wasn't the point of this thread. The point was why should it be a criminal offense if someone takes out a dog and it flushes out, chases or kills an animal by accident and yet not be if someone takes out a car and drives it into a wild animal by accident.

Millions of wild animals die on the roads a few thousand die as a result of pet dogs killing them.

As far as pet cats are concerned yes hands up I have defintely killed one (80 mph on the M6) and almost certainly killed and if not horrifically wounded another.

 

[FestiveSpirit]

omg i better tell the bloke who came out and did the home visit that his advice is completely wrong and that he should never have rehomed that greyhound with me as i dont have a xc field with rabbits for them to kill.
Better break it gently to the greyhound that unfortunately my secure garden is not enough for her and she must return to the kennels, better still send her back to her previous owners who were going to give her the bullet at only 2 years old.

Glad you can supply such a mature unemotive response to my post WeeBarney

Personally I have no problem with dogs (or horses) being humanely PTS instead of being rehomed to unsuitable homes where they get inadequate exercise

 

[combat_claire]

So from what you have said you must hold terrier men with the same contempt as I do.

Not at all, so long as they stick within the MFHA codes of practice and the Hunting Act, the decision regarding the disposal of a fox has to lie with the landowner - if he keeps game birds and wishes to see terriers used to get rid of said fox then I have no issue with terriers being used to dig the fox before it is shot with the humane killer. The outcome will be the same, a clean kill.

 

[Scratchline]

[quoteThat wasn't the point of this thread.

Nor was the subject of digging out )

 

[Scratchline]

[quoteNot at all, so long as they stick within the MFHA codes of practice and the Hunting Act, the decision regarding the disposal of a fox has to lie with the landowner - if he keeps game birds and wishes to see terriers used to get rid of said fox then I have no issue with terriers being used to dig the fox before it is shot with the humane killer. The outcome will be the same, a clean kill. [/quote]

What is the terriers role in this "clean kill"?!

 

[Hebegebe]

From my understanding it's flushing the fox out to be shot

legal under the Hunting Act

 

[weebarney]

I'm sure the charity your greyhounds came from would not be too pleased knowing that they are supposed to be retired yet still used for catching rabbits.
You are obviously upset that i stated 2x15 minute walks instead of 2x 20 minute walks and for that i apologise. Reallty quite petty dont you think.
I dont know if you realise that the greyhounds are actually trained to chase and kill, yes it is in their breeding but the actual training plays a huge part. So to make out its ok for them to be going round killing rabbits because its in their breeding is rubbish, I have been un learning what my greyhound has learned and it is going very well, we have a pet rabbit which she went beserk about when she first saw it but now she doesnt bat an eyelid at it while it is out in its run.

On a different note i would love to know how you taught your dogs recall mid chase? And how you taught them you find it ok for them to kill rabbits but not dogs and cats?

Some people just enjoy seeing things run for their life then die

 

[weebarney]

yes i do

 

[Hebegebe]

Ah well to get back to the point why should it be illegal; for a dog to accidentally kill a wild mammal and not a car?

Shouldn't it be illegal to drive cars down roads that wild animals cross?

 

[combat_claire]

So you won't even consider the independent scientific evidence that is presented to you. It rather makes me wonder whether there is any point at all continuing this debate. Still I don't believe in quitting so I shall keep on showing up just how ridiculous the arguments that you and your ilk are presenting.

Even Bunce has gone deathly silent on this issue...