Addington

[Katieg123]

I'm struggling to understand how she got kicked so hard by her own horse in the chest... for it to have hit so high up on her he must have been loose? I guess maybe she could have been hit if he was on a long lead but if he was tense and unsettled I'd assume she'd hold him on a short rein. Especially since most trot ups are done in bridles? Sorry for the confusing post but I am confused!

 

[Hallo2012]

I'm struggling to understand how she got kicked so hard by her own horse in the chest... for it to have hit so high up on her he must have been loose? I guess maybe she could have been hit if he was on a long lead but if he was tense and unsettled I'd assume she'd hold him on a short rein. Especially since most trot ups are done in bridles? Sorry for the confusing post but I am confused!

he might have been in a bridle and lunge line.

(both mine are entire and i always trot up in a lunge line so if they have a hooly and jump up/strike out i can move out the way and keep the rope above leg height and if they DO get a leg over it I've got enough length to slack off and not get it pulled out my hands)

ypu see plenty trotted up in a bridle and lunge line so whilst i am ONLY guessing at this, that could be the possibility.

 

[Katieg123]

he might have been in a bridle and lunge line.

(both mine are entire and i always trot up in a lunge line so if they have a hooly and jump up/strike out i can move out the way and keep the rope above leg height and if they DO get a leg over it I've got enough length to slack off and not get it pulled out my hands)

ypu see plenty trotted up in a bridle and lunge line so whilst i am ONLY guessing at this, that could be the possibility.

Thats fair enough! Also hate to bring this kind of thing up but often the times I've seen people get kicked by horses it was intentional by the horse.. I wonder if this horse has a past of kicking out at people or took advantage of the situation?

 

[Hallo2012]

Thats fair enough! Also hate to bring this kind of thing up but often the times I've seen people get kicked by horses it was intentional by the horse.. I wonder if this horse has a past of kicking out at people or took advantage of the situation?

not with this horse, he isn't nasty but does have a history of being very spooky and easily taking fright.

 

[spacefaer]

I was kicked just below my left collar bone by a horse that jumped forward and kicked back at me. I was very very lucky he didn't kick me in the face - it was his left hind that caught me.
I was leading him across the field to bring him in. I found out subsequently from previous owners he had form for being sharp on the lead rope.

 

[ihatework]

Thats fair enough! Also hate to bring this kind of thing up but often the times I've seen people get kicked by horses it was intentional by the horse.. I wonder if this horse has a past of kicking out at people or took advantage of the situation?

We don’t know what the actual situation was. So my response here is speculative and has a big IF.

Quite often if you have a lairy horse you will have them in a long lead just to mitigate risk of loosing them. But it does mean if they have a moment they could get far enough from you to kick you.

As an aside, if you have a lairy horse this is ‘your’ issue and ‘you’ have to take significant responsibility to keep everyone in the vicinity safe. This can be quite difficult in a warm up sometimes but in theory should be easier in a trot up if you keep them out the way and just arrive as required.

So unless you were being forced to keep your horse in an unreasonably overcrowded holding area (which may be the case for all I know) then we all need to take ownership for our own naughty/stressed/fractious horses.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

In every walk of life it's now never your fault, never your problem. It is always someone else at fault, someone else to blame.

Why can't people man up and admit to their mistakes?

Also - just how mad are eventers!?! Not horses I have ever had anything to do with but they are making even my worst nightmare racehorse seem utterly sane and tolerable!

 

[SilverLinings]

If you took your dog somewhere enclosed and unexpectedly busy (for example to a dog show in a small village hall) and it bit you, then I can't imagine you would be able to sue either the village hall committee or the organisers of the dog show, so surely this will be seen in a similar light legally? Unless someone employed by the venue/organiser did something really stupid that could reasonably be seen as the cause of what happened, like hit the horse on the bottom/let off a fire extinguisher/hit the horse when moving equipment around/etc.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

While it wouldn't have had any impact on this accident, it goes to show that wearing a helmet when trotting up is a sensible measure. Didn't CDJ wear a helmet at her last few competitions when trotting up before competition.

 

[ihatework]

In every walk of life it's now never your fault, never your problem. It is always someone else at fault, someone else to blame.

Why can't people man up and admit to their mistakes?

Also - just how mad are eventers!?! Not horses I have ever had anything to do with but they are making even my worst nightmare racehorse seem utterly sane and tolerable!

On the whole (there are exceptions!) eventers are pretty good.
This thread is about dressage horses which IME can be excessively mollycoddled

 

[teapot]

And now Louise Bell has put up a post with gushing thanks for the Addington organisers and the FEI, with a photo of her trotting up Into The Blue in a calm and quiet looking arena. I'm guessing she's sending a message..! As a good friend of mine always says, there are three sides to every story.

Just noticed that Eurodressage have commented on the photo so clearly had the same thought as me: "❤ interesting photo choice "

It happened in the holding area outside of where the trot up actually took place... and unless someone posts videos of that area, which could have been carnage for all we know, no one is actually going to know.

 

[Quigleyandme]

I had two thoughts as I read this thread:
1. The injured rider had a lot to say from her intensive care bed.
2. Surely the organisers of the event are more culpable than the venue? The venue hires its facilities and has a duty of care to ensure they are fit for purpose. If BD or whoever hired the venue allowed overcrowding in the trot up waiting area, if there wasn’t a steward in charge to mitigate risk, why is the rider blaming the venue?

 

[Velcrobum]

In every walk of life it's now never your fault, never your problem. It is always someone else at fault, someone else to blame.

Why can't people man up and admit to their mistakes?

^^^^^^^
This exactly

A person is responsible for their Equine big or small, superstar or happy hacker if you know it has issues with certain situations you have a responsibility for the behaviour of that horse and the safety of other equines or people nearby. As other people have said if your competition horse gets upset by others you make sure you communicate with whatever official is in charge of that particular area explain the issue and work out a solution, if that means removing your horse to nearby while your groom, mum, dad, partner, whoever stays close to the official ready to call you and your horse to present at the time you are called.

 

[mle22]

Wow - some of the responses to this are very lacking in sympathy and very judgey - especially when none of us know what actually happened.

 

[rara007]

Was she actually leading her horse? I trot mine up but have someone else handle him in the walking round beforehand. The Kentucky equine chain leather lead is also very long, perfect for trotting up lively ones but long enough they can get ahead. It’s hard to appreciate the tension in those areas until it’s you there!

 

[ycbm]

While it wouldn't have had any impact on this accident, it goes to show that wearing a helmet when trotting up is a sensible measure. Didn't CDJ wear a helmet at her last few competitions when trotting up before competition.

She probably wouldn't have been that seriously injured if she'd been wearing a body protector. I think it was Wiily Carson who narrowly escaped death many years back, when kicked in the spleen in the paddock at a Japanese racecourse, saved by his body protector.

We have a pretty lax attitude, in general, to personal safety when we aren't actually riding the horse.

 

[DressageCob]

All anyone can do is speculate, unless they were there. What I have seen is a few prominent people who I respect commenting on how wild and cramped that holding area was. And then a couple of posts from local riders speaking up for the venue.

While everyone is responsible for their own horse to some extent, if the environment is unsafe (too small, overcrowded, overwhelming, unnecessarily spooky etc) then I would also place some blame on the organisers. We all go out competing expecting a certain standard of safety. For example, if I took my horse out dressaging, I would expect the working in to be large enough to cater for the expected number of horses, to be a suitable surface etc. My horse is perfectly safe in that setting. However, if the working in is small, cramped and overloaded, so that horses are constantly brushing past, hitting other horses with their tails, whips catching other horses etc my horse would likely lose his brain and panic after a while. Many horses would reach their limit in that environment, I would think. Just as an example.

We all plan based on what environment we are expecting and what behaviour we can anticipate from our horses. If the goalposts change, and suddenly the prequel to the trot up is an overcrowded area full of excited sharp horses instead of a relaxed lead up to the arena in a calm atmosphere, I for one wouldn't be placing all the blame on the handler of the horse.

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

I’m surprised at some of the comments here. Whilst at the moment none of us know what actually happened the event should have done a risk assessment of all aspects of their event. Any foreseeable and preventable risks should have been mitigated by for example making sure there weren’t too many horses in a small area as predictably horses can get excitable and defensive. This is not unsurprising. I don’t think it is fair to say that if she the area wasn’t safe she shouldn’t have gone into it either as she has paid to enter and presumably it is important and possibly even necessary for her to compete if it affects her business/ income.

Yes some risks around horses can’t be fully mitigated but an awful lot can be.

 

[shortstuff99]

I’m surprised at some of the comments here. Whilst at the moment none of us know what actually happened the event should have done a risk assessment of all aspects of their event. Any foreseeable and preventable risks should have been mitigated by for example making sure there weren’t too many horses in a small area as predictably horses can get excitable and defensive. This is not unsurprising. I don’t think it is fair to say that if she the area wasn’t safe she shouldn’t have gone into it either as she has paid to enter and presumably it is important and possibly even necessary for her to compete if it affects her business/ income.

Yes some risks around horses can’t be fully mitigated but an awful lot can be.

Yes but in health and safety the person does also have to take reasonable steps. You can't, as an employee, walk into a known unsafe area, get hurt and then blame the employer. What you have to do is refuse to enter and raise it.

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

Yes but in health and safety the person does also have to take reasonable steps. You can't, as an employee, walk into a known unsafe area, get hurt and then blame the employer. What you have to do is refuse to enter and raise it.

She’s not an employee.

 

[shortstuff99]

She’s not an employee.

Same for running shows, I have ran a lot of shows and done a lot of health and safety and yes you manage risks as you can but it also is on the person to manage their health and safety too.

 

[eggs]

Whatever the righty and wrongs of this situation are I do really hope that it doesn't stop Addington running dressage competitions in the future as it has been so great having it back.

The stud manager that I used to go to when I was breeding did once say how much easier the show jumping stallions were compared to the dressage stallions. She put it down to the SJs just having to get on with it when out competing as you never knew what time you would be riding but with the dressage stallions it was all timed down to the minute. As some-one has already commented, dressage horses do seem to be a lot more molly coddled than most.

I hope the woman makes a full and good recovery.

 

[Rowreach]

Also hypothetical because I don't know the place, but holding areas act like funnels, and unless whatever is in them is going out before more come in, they inevitably get crowded. It's not always simple to remove yourself (let alone a fractious horse) from an enclosed area if the exit and entrance is blocked or inaccessible. And by the time you realise there's an issue, it can be too late to do anything anyway.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

H&H have done another story. Rider saying she doesn't blame the venue.

Long line of horses, she was in the line, when she realised they'd have to stand still she tried to turn to walk back. Horse got excited and tried to pull away from her. She tried to hang on and got behind him then got double barrelled.

Not a cramped area but queues building up in a one way system leading to horses having to stand still, outside in a cold wind.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Rider suffers split liver and broken ribs in trot-up incident at international horse show

Calls for change have been made after a rider suffered broken ribs and a lacerated liver when her horse kicked her during an international trot-up. Lisa Marriott was taken to hospital and was in intensive care after the incident at Addington CDI on 16 March. Lisa and others who were there have...

www.horseandhound.co.uk

Olympic rider Richard Davison, who has organised as well as taking part in many vet checks, told H&H the system on the day had merits, in that it was designed to operate one way to avoid accidents.

“But it was made difficult to implement because it was spread over a large area of the showground, with the collecting area not visible from the stables and also too far away from the actual horse inspection,” he said. “The effect was that the stewards ushered too many horses out of their stables far too early and this resulted in queues on the paths as the collecting area became full. Horses were fresh in the March wind and were getting difficult the longer they were held up.”

 

[shortstuff99]

Also a quote from Richard in the article.

Ultimately we riders are responsible for the control of our horses and the safety of ourselves and others and this type of handling accident can happen in any environment; we’ve had it happen at home unfortunately so I urge everyone to take care,” he said.

 

[ester]

I don't think it can ever be a bad thing to do an analysis of the situ after an incident like this regardless of who may or may not be technically at fault- stuff happens quickly with horses! If the chances of it happening in future can be reduced that's a good thing.

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

Same for running shows, I have ran a lot of shows and done a lot of health and safety and yes you manage risks as you can but it also is on the person to manage their health and safety too.

If an employee doesn’t follow the company rules e.g. must not carry a mobile on them in a potentially explosive environment or a customer for example entered an area where they were not supposed to be in that clearly had signage saying do not enter and a barrier then yes they have some if not all responsibility. However you can’t provide an unsafe working area and then blame an employee or customer if they get hurt when in it despite following all the rules. It would be questionable that the risk assessment was adequate. I’m not saying the venue was at fault just that you can’t just blame that individual for doing what they were asked to do.

 

[shortstuff99]

If an employee doesn’t follow the company rules e.g. must not carry a mobile on them in a potentially explosive environment or a customer for example entered an area where they were not supposed to be in that clearly had signage saying do not enter and a barrier then yes they have some if not all responsibility. However you can’t provide an unsafe working area and then blame an employee or customer if they get hurt when in it despite following all the rules. It would be questionable that the risk assessment was adequate. I’m not saying the venue was at fault just that you can’t just blame that individual for doing what they were asked to do.

I don't blame her for getting hurt, and it has been more clarified now.

But, and this applies for everyone even at work or a horse show, if you find yourself in an unsafe environment stop and report. You can't be fired for refusing to work in unsafe conditions (well you can but they will lose a tribunal) and it is not worth it at a horse show.

 

[SusieT]

Sounds like with hindsight she has realised that maybe it wasn't a cut and dried situation . Sounds like a review yes is needed to check what could help- but also that riders need to continue to take responsibility to train and manage their own horses.