Adelinde Cornelissen - A Rant!!

[SusannaF]

Fuego I thought lacked a bit of flow from back end to front, although i agree his collected work was stunning, so I think on balance I'd have marked him the same. I actually thought the bay Iberian that came a lot earlier (can't recall his name) went better...

Rubi!

Alter Real from Portugal. Rider trained by Nuno Oliveira.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i56tUPVBJkk

 

[Goldenstar]

I preferred Rubi to , I can see why people like Fuego but I thought the mark was correct for him giving the sort of coming and going and interruptions in the rhymn you see and the shortness in his neck .
Rubi was much nicer in the neck looked happy in his work and gave you that gosh I would love a sit on him feeling.
I don't admire the picture that AC and Parzival give the shortness in the neck the impression of the impulsion blocking in the neck the fussy mouth with the tongue moving about spoils it . Damon Hill is much much nicer IMO but we are looking at overall impression not marking the test as the judges do.
I was glad that ( according to want I have read on line ) when the Dutch queried the result that STephen Clarke said that harmony won it on the day thats right and how it should be we are supposed to be looking at a happy athlete in the dressage horse and Valegro was the certainly a happy athlete.

 

[horsemad32]

Lots of interesting comments . I've always like Edward Gal's riding, and liked it on the day of the Kur too - he didn't have the best horse by far, but it always looks completely effortless, the horse's ears are never back, either forward or 'listening', and there's no sign of tension or 'fight', nice quiet seat and hands etc. You could see the horse's face a bit behind the vertical and there was the commentary that his horse was strong, but the tension didn't spread from there. I know he's part of the whole Dutch programme and they all use rollkur, but that doesn't mean he's not a very talented, soft rider in every other way. His horses seem to obey him because they choose to, not because he goes round the arena with iron hands. Surely that's the point of good training?!!!

We did well - that's what counts - and well with good horses and kind training. The dutch are such poor losers if they queried the result!!!

 

[Goldenstar]

Lots of interesting comments . I've always like Edward Gal's riding, and liked it on the day of the Kur too - he didn't have the best horse by far, but it always looks completely effortless, the horse's ears are never back, either forward or 'listening', and there's no sign of tension or 'fight', nice quiet seat and hands etc. You could see the horse's face a bit behind the vertical and there was the commentary that his horse was strong, but the tension didn't spread from there. I know he's part of the whole Dutch programme and they all use rollkur, but that doesn't mean he's not a very talented, soft rider in every other way. His horses seem to obey him because they choose to, not because he goes round the arena with iron hands. Surely that's the point of good training?!!!

We did well - that's what counts - and well with good horses and kind training. The dutch are such poor losers if they queried the result!!!

EG is the master of giving to a tense horse that way he can ride very tense horses and get a good tune out of them is wonderful to watch he sits so beauifully it's almost painfully beauifull ,now if he got Utopia or Valegro that would be some thing to see.( of course I hope they stay in the uk but abroad seems likely ).

 

[suzied]

The lap of honour was telling. Charlotte rode with one hand whilst waving at the crowd and Valegro stayed in self carriage and maintained a steady canter.
Adelinde just hung on with both heavy hands. Would like to see Adelinde perform one handed 1xchanges like some of the riders in the Kur! Let's hope the British success promotes the classical, correct training of horse and rider. Incidentally, agree that Rubi the Luso was harshly marked. His performance in all 3 tests was a joy to watch, as befits a horse who previously gave demonstrations with the Portuguese School of Equestrian Art.

 

[cptrayes]

Parzival piaffe is completely bizarre.

His front end is practically glued to the floor and his back end bounces up and down behind him. It's wierd seeing her sit there with his spine bending upwards behind her backside.

I also thought he did most of the test overbent and was completely tense.

While performances like that are marked that high rollkur will never be eliminated.

 

[Goldenstar]

Parzival piaffe is completely bizarre.

His front end is practically glued to the floor and his back end bounces up and down behind him. It's wierd seeing her sit there with his spine bending upwards behind her backside.

I also thought he did most of the test overbent and was completely tense.

While performances like that are marked that high rollkur will never be eliminated.

It's a horse of two halfs in the piaffe I don't get why the judges admire him to the degree they do.
But what do I know it would be fasinating to know their thinking .

 

[Rowreach]

The lap of honour was telling. Charlotte rode with one hand whilst waving at the crowd and Valegro stayed in self carriage and maintained a steady canter.
.

I liked the way Carl Hester was able to drop his reins completely at the end of the kur, then wave to the crowd with both hands while Uti ambled out of the arena in walk

 

[Jazz1]

must say the thing i noticed & remember from the week was how chilled both Uti & Valegro were in the medal ceremony & lap of honor - such relaxed boys.

It was nice to see that maybe for once the judges rewarded the non dutch way of training the gold medal

 

[Polotash]

I liked the way Carl Hester was able to drop his reins completely at the end of the kur, then wave to the crowd with both hands while Uti ambled out of the arena in walk

Yes, wasn't that great to see. I'm sure I wasn't the only one to note lots of horses having to be led to and from the arena too...(not the GB ones!)

I'm sure Carl's methods of management with hacking and turnout are a lot to do with that (as well as his training methods of course), which IMO should be the basis of horse management, not a "oh, isn't that great, a top level horse which gets to see grass and fresh air"!

 

[Polotash]

I preferred Rubi to , I can see why people like Fuego but I thought the mark was correct for him giving the sort of coming and going and interruptions in the rhymn you see and the shortness in his neck .
Rubi was much nicer in the neck looked happy in his work and gave you that gosh I would love a sit on him feeling.
I don't admire the picture that AC and Parzival give the shortness in the neck the impression of the impulsion blocking in the neck the fussy mouth with the tongue moving about spoils it . Damon Hill is much much nicer IMO but we are looking at overall impression not marking the test as the judges do.
I was glad that ( according to want I have read on line ) when the Dutch queried the result that STephen Clarke said that harmony won it on the day thats right and how it should be we are supposed to be looking at a happy athlete in the dressage horse and Valegro was the certainly a happy athlete.

Ah yes, Rubi! Agree, he did make you want to sit on him didn't he, he looked soft and willing, as you say, the happy athlete.

 

[skewbaldpony]

Yes, they were great, very calm and well behaved. Charlotte looked like she'd just won the workers! I think in general, British riders are more all rounders and expect horses to behave like horses. When I worked overseas, that was always gobsmacking to my employers.

 

[Booboos]

Come on people we have to be a bit more objective than that!! Even I've seen Valegro piss off with Charlotte (and that says a lot because I don't watch a lot of dressage by any means) and Laura often does not ride Alf in the prizegivings because he is too dangerous. At the same time Totillas was trained the system-whose-name-I-dare-not-speak and he was super chilled until MR got on board.

Anyone who knows horses knows that they are complex, flighty creatures that are easily upset. There is no training or management system in the world that guarantees you a relaxed horse everytime.

 

[Wundahorse]

I'm no expert but in my opinion Parcifal looked very tense and he seemed to be forced into his manouvres by an unyielding Adelinde,whereas in contrast Charlottes beautiful test was a joy to watch,so natural and fluent with no discernable movements from Charlotte which made it seem like a wonderful symmetry between horse and rider.Carls test too was similar in its execution,but i agree Laura seemed to be using her hands a lot to get Alf into his stride,although overall a pleasing test.

 

[christine48]

I am usually a fan of Parzival, his piaffe and passage are fantastic.however I agree he did look tense and resistant. I think Laura deserved a higher score, and Parzival was definately over marked.

 

[lizzi2]

Think someone said in an earlier post that there might be politics in play to stop GB being 1st, 2nd and 3rd..........I think they maybe right and we should have been - all of our riders were great!

 

[SO1]

I was there watching and lucky enough to have seats very near the front and near the judge box at C. It is amazing how different things look from there than they do when shown on TV, such as riders being wonky or unsquare halts, horses looking tight in the mouth, you can see every small mistake and as amazing as these riders and horses are they do still make mistakes like the rest of us.

I thought Carl would have got a higher mark however wondered if his choice of music let him down slightly.

I also thought Adeline was going to win even after Charlottes test, although I could see her horse was tense in the mouth, he was very active behind and the music and floor plan were very clever choices. Charlotte did really benefit from the music but like she mentioned her horse was tired and I think that did make a difference in his piaffes.

Both the liberian horses were lovely very relaxed but they did not show much extention and I wonder if that was an issue as it meant it was a less balanced test as the judges might want to see horses who show a wide range of movements all done well.

I also learnt that with the Kur there are different co-efficients for certain movements so if you can do lots of the hard stuff really well then even if the test is not so fluid or harmonious that could push your score up above a less difficult test better executed. Also having the two scores must make a difference I am not entirely sure what they are looking for in the artistic score but I imagine having good music and a floor plan that maybe tells a story might be considered. Charlotte's artistic score was about 94% if I remember rightly a good 5 marks more than most.

Alf did not look like he was being easy he looked very enthusiastic!

 

[stevieg]

Love this

I was there yesterday and although I am no expert (we event) I have to say I enjoyed Laura's test the most. Uthopia seemed a little flat which was a real shame as I would love to have seen Carl receive a medal. Possibly tired and ready for home? (The horse that is, not Carl!)
If we are now receiving the higher marks due to a new enlightened way of judging then hurrah! It's been a long time coming. No wonder the Dutch are upset. Time has caught up with their outdated methods

 

[I love my Spanish horse]

Fuego didnt show much extension, really??

Imo both iberians and ravel were harshly judged, rubi and fuego especially were penalised for correct, classical and harmonious work, And yes while at times they can look short in the neck which is extremlu common and more to do with conformation than anything, they were correct, soft and relaxed throughout which is a lot more than can be said for parzival. You only have to comapre photos of him like this to see the massive difference between the two,

yet he somehow scored over 10% higher than fuego and even more than rubi, which is utterly ridiculous and a lot of people have been rightly complaining to the fei about it (not that theyre listening)

 

[skewbaldpony]

That stand behind Parsifal is jolly useful isn't it? Being vertical and all that.

 

[JFTDWS]

Natwood, I know which of those two I'd rather be sat on...

 

[I love my Spanish horse]

That stand behind Parsifal is jolly useful isn't it? Being vertical and all that.

yep, and a lot of people think so too as its being blasted all over the fei fb page cant believe how they can see this with their own eyes and still scored it with 88%, shameful

 

[skewbaldpony]

Natwood, I know which of those two I'd rather be sat on...

I'd rather be sat on Parsifal - Fuego's quite alright where he is !

 

[JFTDWS]

I'd rather be sat on Parsifal - Fuego's quite alright where he is !

lol thanks but no thanks - I'd like a sit on Fuego, before I gave him back - I'd rather not sit on Parzival, if I got my hands on him, my priority wouldn't be sitting on him!

 

[RutlandH2O]

That stand behind Parsifal is jolly useful isn't it? Being vertical and all that.

Brilliant!!! A picture is worth a thousand words! Talk about tension and being btv...

 

[I love my Spanish horse]

lol thanks but no thanks - I'd like a sit on Fuego, before I gave him back - I'd rather not sit on Parzival, if I got my hands on him, my priority wouldn't be sitting on him!

Too right, id much rather ride fuego or rubi to parzival or salinero, would be worried about them being so dead in the mouth not having any brakes if the decided to ******* off
Sadly i think this is fuego's last olympics, i just hope this unfair judging doesnt put others of from competing internationality with any up and coming pre/ luso superstars.

 

[I love my Spanish horse]

Brilliant!!! A picture is worth a thousand words! Talk about tension and being btv...

indeed, its incorrect EVERYTHING though croup is flat, hindlegs are trailing, rider is totally slanted backwards, hindlegs are leaving the ground before the foreleg, this is the total opposite of self carriage!

 

[Auslander]

I witnessed Andelinde working in before her freestyle test. Her horse was constanly held behind the vertical throughout the warm up. When he became too hyperflexed the FEI steward that was overseeing the arena would conveniently look away! I am disgusted with a lot of what I have seen by riders & officials & it has left me with a sour taste in my mouth towards these so called top riders.
Not once did I see Laura, Carl or Charlotte ride in this manner!!! (Laura has a problem with Alf becoming too strong, which is why sometimes she looks a little jerky with him, & he is a huge powerful horse.) :0(((

Lucky you - getting to watch warm-ups. How did you manage that?

 

[Booboos]

Fuego didnt show much extension, really??

Imo both iberians and ravel were harshly judged, rubi and fuego especially were penalised for correct, classical and harmonious work, And yes while at times they can look short in the neck which is extremlu common and more to do with conformation than anything, they were correct, soft and relaxed throughout which is a lot more than can be said for parzival. You only have to comapre photos of him like this to see the massive difference between the two,

yet he somehow scored over 10% higher than fuego and even more than rubi, which is utterly ridiculous and a lot of people have been rightly complaining to the fei about it (not that theyre listening)

I don't know if you are a fan of Dr H (many people who are concerned about rollkur are in agreement with his work) but if you were to draw lines on the hind and front legs of the horses in these photos it is in fact Parcival who has the parallel lines and Fuego who shows the 'unnatural' (not my claim but part of Dr H's claims) front leg action and loss of hind leg engagement.

Personally I think a photo is a moment in time and doesn't tell you much, but just pointing out the irony of these photos if you buy into this sort of analysis in the first place.

 

[BeesKnees]

Thanks Natwood for the photo comparison. It illustrates brilliantly the differences. And refutes the 'Iberians can't extend' opinion grrrrrr!

I do think we have a situation where the fashion for 'flashy front end' and overbent frames has led to a point where some people don't know what 'correct' work actually is. The whole idea of the horse lifting its back and bringing the hocks underneath just seems to have been forgotten about!

Any chance you could do a photo piaffe comparison ?!