Adjustable saddle project?

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Shonah

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Hi all,

I'm a design student at uni and I've just started my third and final year (YAY!).... one of my projects is to basically chose an area you're interested in that has a problem.

I've had my 17.1hh delight for 8 years now, and she has always changed shape fast and a lot. After spending money on saddles that become useless every 6 months I started thinking about adjustable saddles.

Perfect problem for me to solve for uni ;)



I realise there are already adjustable saddles out there- I knew about the wintec's already but Wow's are something I've only really seen since I've been researching for this particular project. There doesn't seem to be much information in the wow saddle area- people tend to post the general feeling about them but not an explanation as to why they have the feelings they do.

What are people opinions and experiences on WOW's and wintecs or any other adjustable saddles I haven't come across? Is there any way you could think of improving an adjustable saddle or making it work better for yourself and your horse?


Any comments/replies would be greatly appreciated and may be used in my research if that is okay with users.

Thanks in advance :)



P.S If anyone has a WOW in the Derbyshire/Nottinghamshire area that I'd be allowed to look at that would be even better, cake waiting :D
 
Not in your area, sorry - but the website has quite a lot of detail on it. Wows really are very different to most of the adjustable gullet saddles - because you can change every element of them from the tree to the panels to the girthing, flocking type, gullet shape as well as width - not really in the same ball park as a wintec! Many options to fit the rider as well.

I love mine because of that huge degree of flexibility. IMO it's the closest thing you can get to a saddle for life ;) I first looked into them because I was having trouble finding a jump saddle that wouldn't put me out of balance and the 2nd stirrup bar on the Wow was an instant fix for the issues I was having riding over fences. My horse made it clear that she found them very comfortable and we never looked back. I am sick of hearing about iffy saddle fitters in my area so I'm pleased to be free of that, I fit my Wows myself.
 
milliepops said:
Not in your area, sorry - but the website has quite a lot of detail on it. Wows really are very different to most of the adjustable gullet saddles - because you can change every element of them from the tree to the panels to the girthing, flocking type, gullet shape as well as width - not really in the same ball park as a wintec! Many options to fit the rider as well.

I love mine because of that huge degree of flexibility. IMO it's the closest thing you can get to a saddle for life ;) I first looked into them because I was having trouble finding a jump saddle that wouldn't put me out of balance and the 2nd stirrup bar on the Wow was an instant fix for the issues I was having riding over fences. My horse made it clear that she found them very comfortable and we never looked back. I am sick of hearing about iffy saddle fitters in my area so I'm pleased to be free of that, I fit my Wows myself.
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Thanks for your reply :)!

I've looked on the website, it is really informative! It is a fantastic design already.


Do you find it easy to fit your own? Other threads I have seen is that people can't always do it themselves and the lack of fitters has been a problem for them. I'd assume it requires more skill than fitting a saddle that cannot be changed?
 
it's totally different to fitting a wool or foam flocked saddle, if you have the flair and really you need to sit on the saddle to fit it... so I personally found it took a bit of trial and error. But I'd had a Wow fitter attend several times and had the fit kit so felt fairly competent to just have a go, you can tell when it's not right when you know what a well fitted Wow feels like. They do run client days where you can be taught to do it, they just never worked out for me timing-wise.

they do make panels with wool and foam flocking to order so there is a choice there too.
 
If you look on the wow website there are contact details for the approved retailers. If you find your closest then they might be open to showing you the saddles. You could also contact the main office to see if they can help.

Other saddles you may be interested in researching are schleese and bua

There is also a designer in Scotland currently working on a prototype saddle but they are only at research stage and not willing to spill the beans on their design just yet but they have won some design awards so I am itching to find out more!
 
I really liked my Free n Easy.. sadly they are no longer made. The FnE was truly an engineers response to the saddle and horse's back.

Having tried the Bua it didn't work for my horse as it was way too narrow and isn't adjustable... what it is is modular but the tree is marginally flexible but not adjustable in any way.. not even by the maker.

I also think that materials are now way more advanced than they used to be and that it is now possible to build a "treeless" saddle that does distribute weight / impact as well as a tree'd saddle.

I currently have a semi-flex which works very well for us but isn't adjustable by the rider .. has to go back to the maker. As I understand it Schleese are similar .. they have to go back to the maker. By my standard "adjustable" means adjustable by the rider and involves the saddle being modular in that it can be deconstructed and constructed without any specialist tools.
 
My horse definitely did not like the feeling of air pockets rolling around on his back

Normal adjustable gullets also only fix one of about 12 areas of adjustment so would be really interested to see modular attachments, perhaps a bit like wow, but with gussets and panels to adjust through the lateral balance....also better leather quality
 
Zuzan said:
I really liked my Free n Easy.. sadly they are no longer made. The FnE was truly an engineers response to the saddle and horse's back.

Having tried the Bua it didn't work for my horse as it was way too narrow and isn't adjustable... what it is is modular but the tree is marginally flexible but not adjustable in any way.. not even by the maker.

I also think that materials are now way more advanced than they used to be and that it is now possible to build a "treeless" saddle that does distribute weight / impact as well as a tree'd saddle.

I currently have a semi-flex which works very well for us but isn't adjustable by the rider .. has to go back to the maker. As I understand it Schleese are similar .. they have to go back to the maker. By my standard "adjustable" means adjustable by the rider and involves the saddle being modular in that it can be deconstructed and constructed without any specialist tools.
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Yes, that's also my take on adjustable, my idea is to have a saddle that can be changed through out the tree with allan keys. No special tools or chances to round screw heads! Thanks, I will definitely take a look at the FnE!
 
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Wheels said:
If you look on the wow website there are contact details for the approved retailers. If you find your closest then they might be open to showing you the saddles. You could also contact the main office to see if they can help.

Other saddles you may be interested in researching are schleese and bua

There is also a designer in Scotland currently working on a prototype saddle but they are only at research stage and not willing to spill the beans on their design just yet but they have won some design awards so I am itching to find out more!
Click to expand...

Thank you, I'll look into the other brands you've said :)! Do you know the name of the designer in Scotland by any chance? Still might be worth a chat :P
 
Orrin Equestrian in Scotland. I think your best bet is to talk to Les Sparks who was the inventor / designer of the FnE
 
Frumpoon said:
My horse definitely did not like the feeling of air pockets rolling around on his back

Normal adjustable gullets also only fix one of about 12 areas of adjustment so would be really interested to see modular attachments, perhaps a bit like wow, but with gussets and panels to adjust through the lateral balance....also better leather quality
Click to expand...


That's something I've seen quite a few people say!

Thank you, more areas of adjustment is something I think would be good, not something anyone does that I've researched so far!
 
Indeed!

It would be nice if there was any info on the designs or an idea when they might be bringing saddles to the market
 
I know this is an older thread now but something popped up on my fab today that looked kinda interesting? They are baloun saddlery
 
Baloun looks to be a flex saddle with only changeable gullets, Ergon Equine looks to be about racing saddles, which are notoriously AWFUL and seldom professionally fitted. It also totally ignores the fact that dynamic fit in saddle fitting is everything, if a horse doesn't go well in a saddle then it doesn't matter if "in the cross ties" boxes are ticked.

I have fitted adjustable saddles in the past, ReactorPanel, which I owned before becoming a fitter, and fitted professionally for a year or so. They all have pros and cons, even changeable headplates have their issues - ie a fixed pommel width and tree shape through all width changes, ignoring the differing requirements of very narrow and very wide backs as two extremes, AND the fact that plastic trees take more £ to develop, so have a limited range of shapes.

The most advanced have gone bankrupt - the "bridge" to the Quantum saddle design failed spectacularly causing the £1m investment, and involvement of the best of industry outsider designers (who had been featured on a TV design troubleshooting series in the 90s). It just shows how hard it is, and a well-fitted traditional saddle, closely monitored, is still the best option there is in most cases.
 
sbloom said:
Baloun looks to be a flex saddle with only changeable gullets, Ergon Equine looks to be about racing saddles, which are notoriously AWFUL and seldom professionally fitted. It also totally ignores the fact that dynamic fit in saddle fitting is everything, if a horse doesn't go well in a saddle then it doesn't matter if "in the cross ties" boxes are ticked.

I have fitted adjustable saddles in the past, ReactorPanel, which I owned before becoming a fitter, and fitted professionally for a year or so. They all have pros and cons, even changeable headplates have their issues - ie a fixed pommel width and tree shape through all width changes, ignoring the differing requirements of very narrow and very wide backs as two extremes, AND the fact that plastic trees take more £ to develop, so have a limited range of shapes.

The most advanced have gone bankrupt - the "bridge" to the Quantum saddle design failed spectacularly causing the £1m investment, and involvement of the best of industry outsider designers (who had been featured on a TV design troubleshooting series in the 90s). It just shows how hard it is, and a well-fitted traditional saddle, closely monitored, is still the best option there is in most cases.
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Do you fit traditional saddles then?

What did you find people didnt like about the adjustable types?

In all honesty, I didn't know a great deal about them until I started researching this project! And I'm learning a lot even from the bankrupt ones- if a company is going bankrupt its due to the product failing so seeing what they have done right and wrong is a great help to me and my project, so if you know any other names that have gone bankrupt I'd appreciate it :). Or any other information you'd like to share for that matter on adjustable saddles, I'd be really grateful!

Thanks xx
 
Issues with various types of adjustable saddles:

Being able to change something means there is at least a point where things join, or potentially flex. In many cases what you need is stability, too many saddles move on the horses I fit. Even at the simplest level there are issues with threads going on changeable headplate trees, and there are wearing parts that wear out either just being annoying or failing without notice.

Changeable leads to assumptions. The most harmful is that they will adapt as they are to the horse changing shape and don't need checking. Next is that it should be able to be adjusted to fit any horse. Then that if it fits now being able to make adjustments means it should always fit. These assumptions lead to infrequent checks and adjustments, or simply leaving ill fitting saddles and not realising, or being disappointed when the saddle can no longer be refitted.

Saddle fitting is complicated so anything that leads the owner to believe they can make the adjustments can be problematic. A few people will indeed be able to make the correct changes, but the subtle flocking adjustments I often make when widening a tree definitely cannot be made by owners. And when you read "it's too narrow" as a blanket statement because a saddle is tipping back in a photo, or is stated to have 5 finger's clearance, you know that most customers do not understand the relationship between width, clearance and balance in a saddle and can make some very serious fitting errors.

I think adjustable saddles, if they fit the horse in the first place, can give some advantages to a fixed saddle. However, a traditional wooden treed saddle CAN have its width adjusted slightly by a trained fitter or at a workshop, so they are more versatile than people realise. If a horse changes more than, say, two width fittings, it probably needs a different shaped tree anyway which people don't realise. It's the marketing I object to the most, and the lack of information given to the public, it's why I post as much as I do, because it's all much too much smoke and mirrors IMO.

The truly adjustable saddles, flexible panel, adjustable shape trees (apparently Schleese trees change shape but I have no idea how), component saddles like Wow, all these variations are all very diffferent and take a lot of training to know how they should really work and how they should be fitted so it's very hard to be able to research them so as to be useful to take forwards.

And yes I do fit traditional saddles. I didn't want to, I just wanted to fit ReactorPanels, I'm glad I listened...I now love fitting traditional saddles and see how the system works when it's done right. An educated customer watching for changes in their horse or in the fit of their well made English leather wooden treed saddle, and timely checks and adjustments with use of shock absorbing or corrective pads and shims where necessary.
 
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