Adrian...last ditch post...diagnose my horse please...??

catembi

catembi

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I would really, really be grateful for any help that anyone can give.

Brief history...Adrian is a 7 yo ISH, used equally for BD & BS. He used to be v excitable & hard to hold jumping & would jump anything from anywhere. About 18 months ago, he started losing his scope, then got gradually slower & slower. Now he will barely put one foot in front of the other.

Spent about £5.5k on vets so far.

-full bonescan...a few very, very minor hot spots
-xrays of entire spine...one fractionally narrow lumbar joint but otherwise clear
-found v minor PSD - treated with steroids & shockwave with zero improvement
-blood tested for anaemia & equine metabolic disorder & thyroid function
-usual vet found spavin & treated with bute & adequan; Rossdales say no spavin

also...

-teeth done
-properly wormed
-lives out
-saddle checked
-properly qual'd chiro has been out
-v good farrier

Main symptoms now...

-very, very slow. Shuffles along in walk. Will grind to a halt, stamp & swish if chivvied along
-generally fed up & irritable
-hasn't shed coat. He hasn't got a Cushings coat (my ancient mare has Cushings) but his legs are still furry & he still has the coarse 'between clips' coat that isn't at all shiny
-having trouble getting weight off him

The horse whisperer said diabetes & thyroid prob, but a vet from a new practice said v unlikely. Someone told me that you can only diagnose equine metabolic disorder from a baseline blood test & then one after being starved overnight, which Rossdales didn't do. Is this right?

He used to be so full of life & enjoyed anything he was asked to do & it's killing me to see him like this. I would stake my life on it that he is NOT being lazy & it is NOT a schooling or attitude issue. I've rested him for a few days & tried him again this evening, & he was slower than my 37 year old mare.

I know that this should probs be in vets, but as he is (was?) a comp horse & there are lots of brainy people in CR, I thought it might be better off in here.
 
Have you a video camera catembi - just occured to me that you could take a quick vid of him (walk/trot or whatever he will do for you at the moment) and put it on this post. In terms of gait analysis there are some really knowledgeable peeps on HHO and might notice something. Also pics of his coat etc if you say it is dull.

Sorry if you have already done this and I have missed the post.

Fiona
 
But what for...?? My usual vet's final word on the matter is to send him to his showjumping daughter to beat up.

Rossdales say there's f-all wrong with him & that 'he might just not be the horse he was'. Whatever that means. Apparently it happens.

New vets say that there's no point testing him for anything else because there isn't anything else it's likely to be.

All of the above think I'm a mad old bat with a bee in my bonnet.
 
I've got some v recent photos of him...also o/h filmed him recently so I'll see what I can do. If not, I'll have another go tomo & get o/h to film him.

I have to say, I'm starting to *feel* like a mad old bat. However, I have personally jumped him in lessons up to 1 m 25, & we had to stop cos I couldn't hold him, so surely he should be able to manage a brisk walk?? He's 7...my old mare is faster than him atm & she's 37...
 
I had a very, very similar problem with my mare, and again got the usual "its just an attitude" "she needs a man on her" etc (from vets included) and the only person to discover what was wrong was an iridologist! My baby is now back to her lively amazing self, highly, highly recommended, now my first point of call for a problem with a horse! (pm if you want details of the one i used) it was truly incredible to see the difference
xx
 
You aren't mad, and I want to strangle your usual vet. I'll only go straight to Sue Dyson for mysteries now. If you can't afford her, the only other option as far as I can see is to take his shoes off and turn him away for 12 - 18 months then try again, retire him or pts. You know there's something wrong, but unfortunately the vets can't always find what it is.
 
You are not a mad old bat - he's your horse and you know him.

I called the vet last year after my mare started to feel very stiff in her back, and vet after flexions said my mare was lame on 3 out of 4 legs even though she had done a recent dressage test with v high marks, however my lovely horse physio worked her magic (horse had had a bad fall out hunting) and horse totally OK again in a month. I knew her and knew she wasn't right.

Fiona
 
well, iridology isn't a bad idea, won't cost a fortune and might bring up something useful. Ellen Collinson is very good, fwiw, and Leics area i believe.
have you tried chucking him out in a field for a month or two with good grass to see if Dr Green can help?
is he the same bareback? seriously?
i saw a vid of a work-up (by Rossdales iirc) of a comp horse which had a problem with the blood flow to his hind end, would work beautifully for a while then gradually dry up and get slower and slower, but that one looked 100%...
if you're a mad old bat enough to try really alternative stuff, try Ann Dee, a horse communicator i have used with success...
would like to see pics/vids.
you need a real old-fashioned nagsman, not a vet, imho. i only know 1 or 2, but they're worth their weight in gold in cases like this...
v v best of luck. poor Adrian. he should be in the prime of his life, not shuffling along like a granny. i think your instincts are right.
 
Hi you could try the Black Box (Radionics) its a bit mumbo jumbo but it does work! Iridologists are very good also.
Could it be the field he lives in something to do with the grass/soil? I would get field/soil analysed it could have a high pH level or be lacking in minerals have organic phospates could of been used on fields years ago.could also be his water supply get that tested. Maybe change his feed and hay.
Best of luck and hope you find some answers.
 
Trust your instincts; I think a horse like Adrian who is obviously very talented and must have enjoyed his work/jumping a lot would hardly just decide that he'd rather not move at all...
Have they done anything to test anything neurological?
I don't know much about iridology but it sounds interesting and might just be worth a shot.
I hope you find an answer to this, for yours and Adrian's sake :(
 
did you ever talk to Johnny at silver lining herbs? I have just used an amazing lady called Sally Leich who does kineseology, for my headshaking horse, and she was incredibly accurate on many counts she also put me in touch with a nutritionist who deals with metabolic syndrome etc can forward their numbers if that would help, or give me a buzz more than happy to throw a few more suggestions in the mix. You are certainly not batty sometimes vets only look at the science and can't help outside the box. All the very best,
fiona
 
Yes, I tried Ann Dee. She said diabetes & thyroid problem, & that his system is on the very point of collapse. 3rd vet said v unlikely to be diabetes, & Rossdales did a thyroid function test which was apparently normal.

He is shuffly from the word go. I'm only doing 20 mins (timed) with him, nearly all in walk & a tiny, tiny bit of trot just to see what he thinks. He will NOT trot from the aids...he clams up & stops...I have to shake the reins at him & shhhhhhhh him.

How would I go about getting the soil analysed?

The water is a mains trough. It was put in well after the slowness started. They used to have a tub filled from the hose or kitchen tap.

Yes I've tried bareback (he is the same) & I've tried riding him in my old mare's saddle for a couple of weeks. My WOW got a puncture last summer & while it was being mended, the saddler said that her saddle fitted him perfectly well.

I've tried resting him for a month or 2. He is always out anyway.

I nearly had an iridologist who was recommended & was coming over from France. She was going to do an appt for me but didn't.

Please, if anyone wants to PM me any 'out there' ideas or contact details, etc, feel free! I am completely at my wits' end.
 
Are you convinced it's medical? Could it be that he needs re-backed in a way our ridden by someone with a new approach? Like Jason Webb. He normally deals with naughty horses but you never know... Do you do anything 'fun' when you ride him? Have you tried taking him to the beach, loose schooling him or something similar. Does he gallop around his field or is he just a slow without a rider on his back? I really feel for you, what a mystery. :(
 
Oh yes, sorry, I forgot, We did have him scoped for ulcers & he was 100% clear.

Photos...sorry they're huge but we'll be here all year if I try to resize them.

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Note how fed up he looks... He also looks shinier than he actually is. In real life, his coat is very dull & staring.
 
Well this is probably a long shot but your horse has similar symptoms to a horse i owned and he was diagnosed with Lyme disease caused by ticks.
It can cause horses a lot of pain in their joints and give them a fever. Is there any swelling in your horses joints?
It can be easily tested for. Your vet takes blood and sends it away for testing which takes a couples of weeks.
 
Thank you for the suggestion, but I'm certain it isn't behavioural. He doesn't gallop around the field any more, & he used to be quite partial to a game of 'let's chase Jenny round the field'. He used to leap on & off the school & go bucking & kicking if the mood took him. Now he mostly stands on the school by himself looking fed up.

When he was okay, he used to have a fun life. BD & BS, boxing for lessons, odd bit of xc, hacking, not in any way over-jumped or over-faced, days off, living out. It's not as if he's in 24/7 & only taken out of his box for an hour a day to be ridden in an indoor school in rollkur or bashed over enormous jumps.

I'm trying to get o/h to send me the video.
 
If those pics are very recent - then his coat is really bad for late May. We have a grey IDx (so should have similar coat to Adrian) and her summer coat (no clip marks) has been through for about 3 weeks, and not saying its shiny (because greys can't 'shine' as such) but its very smooth and sleek without being brushed much.

Poor A - I know he has lost muscle because of not being worked much but he does look a little 'pinched' and miserable.

Does he eat well??

Fiona
 
No advice sorry other than you know your own horse and if not right there is obviously something going wrong somewhere. Trust your instincts and keep going on this, I really do hope you get to the end of this as have followed your progress with Adrian for a long time and this is so not like him :( hugs x
 
catembi said:
But what for...?? My usual vet's final word on the matter is to send him to his showjumping daughter to beat up.

Rossdales say there's f-all wrong with him & that 'he might just not be the horse he was'. Whatever that means. Apparently it happens.

New vets say that there's no point testing him for anything else because there isn't anything else it's likely to be.

All of the above think I'm a mad old bat with a bee in my bonnet.
Click to expand...

What a poor attitude from the vets. They cant find out whats wrong so the horse must have a behavioural issue :mad:

Could he have a heart problem? Have the other organs functioning been checked?
 
Christ! I'm sorry Catembi, he really doesn't look right in himself at all. I'm truly shocked, poor you and poor Adrian.

Clutching at straws but the test for Lyme's disease seems a good plan - testing for ANYTHING he hasn't been tested for seems a good plan. Other than that a complete change of scene. I'm tempted to suggest trying to get him a month's grass livery close to the sea, we stayed with the horses at a very bracing place; he just looks so . . . glum is the nearest I can get.
 
Could it be long term tying up?

If there is a build up of lactic acid it can cause permanent damage?

Just saw post about ulcers :)
 
Yes he eats very well. He is extremely greedy & I have to put him in his stable at mealtimes otherwise he would have 3 breakfasts or dinners & Trevor & Jenny would have none. He is aggressive with food.

To me, he looks podgy. I don't like him too heavy. Or maybe he just looks podgy compared with Trev (not long out of training)?

The photos are recent, & he has barely lost any more hair since. Even Jenny has moulted, & she's got Cushings. Trev finished ages ago.

But what does the lack of moulting mean...??
 
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