Advantages/Disadvantages of a ride and drive horse?

[Cubbini]

Hi all, I would really like your advice on the following please.

I’m considering buying a horse that has been advertised for being safe and sensible, uncomplicated and suitable for Riding Club/Pony Club activities which is perfect for what I’m looking for. However the horse was originally broken to drive at 3-4 years old. The horse was then broken to ride at 5 years old and the current owner has been riding him since for the last 3 years and has been taking part in most pony club activities and hacking. During the past year the horse has again been reintroduced to driving and is now used for both riding and driving.

My question is what are the advantages/disadvantages of buying a horse that has done both? (When I was a teenager, many years ago now!, I used to hack a horse aged 7 which was originally broke to drive. When out hacking, some days he could be fine, other days he was as strong as an OX and it was safe to say we had no brakes! He knew exactly how to generate power from behind and a slow canter could sometimes develop into an uncontrollable and unstoppable gallop or bolt!

I said to myself I wouldn’t entertain buying a horse that had done both riding and driving in the future to avoid putting myself in that situation again now I’m older, however I also feel that every horse is different.

I would love to hear about your experiences and any advice you may have.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Chuffy99]

Our pony did both jobs, he was a competitive horse trials pony who had got very naughty in the dressage phase so he was broken to drive by friends who competed him in m&m whp and then we bought him.
I drove him for pleasure and to keep him fit for daughter at uni to compete when she came home, he swapped from job to job seemlessly was a complete star at both jobs including going to HOYS as a m&m whp and was our pony of a lifetime, he was never strong but was ridden and driven correctly

 

[rabatsa]

A well schooled horse is a well schooled horse no matter what the discipline. I cannot see any drawbacks but then I own a ride and drive.

 

[Equi]

I looked after my friends ride/drive pony a few times a week. She drove him competitively (i drove him a few times too for pleasure) but he was ridden by beginner children and i gave a few lessons on him to a friends kid who had only come off the lead. He was a sparky character but as for work he did both totally perfect and interchangeably. He was sold to a young kid as their first PC pony.

 

[scruffyponies]

No drawbacks whatever.
Advantages include: Verbal obedience. Usually bombproof. Keeping it fit when you can't ride. Taking a non-riding friends out with you.
Safe hacking on the road - many will stop at give way junctions of their own accord.

I love being able to ride behind a pony and novice child and give it instructions to back up the child's ineffective attempt at an aid. Great for safety and rider confidence.

 

[Kat]

I haven't owned one but have regularly ridden a couple.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a ride and drive if it ticked my main boxes. They are generally pretty good in traffic and not bothered about stuff behind them, round their backend etc.

It does depend a bit on the type of driving the horse has done. One I rode had done driving trials at a fairly high level and he was epic in the school, flying changes, walk to canter etc all well established a bit of a dressage schoolmaster.

The driving pony I used to ride wasn't great in the school, nothing bad but she knew her job and didn't consider schooling was part of it. She was brilliant to hack and did pleasure rides.

However some don't really do canter, and if they have done any trotting races it can be a pretty big issue to school out.

 

[Equi]

Yes a good point to make. A pacer can be pretty hard to school.

 

[Chuffy99]

Yes I agree with being able to take a friend out, was always someone happy to come.
He did like to hack more in the middle of the road.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I have had 4 over the years and all of them were super riding out and about, almost bombproof in traffic of any sort. But none of them were ever driven in competition, purely for pleasure. I have to say I never had trouble teaching them to go into canter, they all cottoned on very quickly to that. But they weren't trotters or pacers so slightly different mind set and physical pre-disposition to traditionals.

One of them was a little strong to begin with but I think that was more the terrible 7's you can get with some traditional cobs. Good as gold and suit a novice for a couple of years, then seemed to find his inner evil around about 7, but then sorted himself out again in a year or so with a bit of encouragement and guidance.

 

[katastrophykat]

All of mine are ride and drive, I expect them to do both jobs perfectly (ish!) and they know the rules. They all jump, hack alone and in company, drive (single and pairs in the case of the ponies!) and go showing in hand, ridden and driven- mostly in the same day. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy another.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I have had several r&d horses and would always recommend them. They have all been 'characters' and safe as houses in traffic. I have never had a pacer, though.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

The only 'drawback' I had with a ride and drive native was he wasn't keen on narrow places such as going down single track paths out hacking. I'm sure it was because he was leaving room for his vehicle.
He also preferred to to travel exactly half way between the kerb and white line in centre of the road. Again, exactly where he would be driven in a cart
Both were not major issues and were worked through.
He did very well driving, also winning open riddens and whp classes

 

[paddi22]

I've had a few varying from carriage to trotters/pacers. they have all been lovely riding horses, I find the carriage driving has been an advantage to them in some ways.

I found they focus on work and are straighter because they seem to be more used to just focusing ahead, there is way less spooking and shying to normal horses. and they don't tend to drop a shoulder or spin when scared, if they get a fright they just jump on the spot and thats it. on the whole I find them straighter when jumping, they wobble less! on the downside they can be very on the forehand and it can be difficult to get them using their backs and pushing from behind instead of dragging from the front. I also find they tend to be very strong in one shoulder than the other, someone said to me before they lean more on one shoulder in a cart, they might be why? so in dressage I always notice them really dominant and going against me in one shoulder, fo example leg yield one way will be so easy for them, but they are very resistant the other.

 

[my bfg]

It wouldn't put me off but have found the following;

Positive
Fantastic responding to voice, really love praise
Great with traffic

Negative
Put themselves in a false outline while pulling themselves along from the front end
Canter needs work
When working on training trot to canter, the trot can get crazy fast!
Looks for a strong contact from the bit until otherwise trained
Hacks in the middle of the road
Wooden to bend
If unsure will prefer to trot and can boot scoot and rush forward when worried

May not apply to all, just what I've found x

 

[laura_nash]

The only downside I've found was when I used to ride someone's carriage horses. When their driver was present they forgot they had a rider and listened to him instead, which he found great fun and could be quite disconcerting.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I would be concerned about all the trotting on roads the driven horse /pony has done and the joint damage it causes. I only trot on the road (when riding) if i need to get to a passing place to give way as it does cause joint damage.

 

[paddi22]

I would be concerned about all the trotting on roads the driven horse /pony has done and the joint damage it causes. I only trot on the road (when riding) if i need to get to a passing place to give way as it does cause joint damage.

I was paranoid about this when I started retraining sulkies racers, as they would have been clattering on roads from yearlings. without exception though they all have the hardest strongest legs and I've never had any go lame or have tendon/ligament issues. I discussed it with a vet before and he said he would expect to see more leg issues in young horses ridden in arenas doing tight turns on surfaces & being lunged than horse driven in straight lines on roads. I haven't a clue either way, but I've never had any of the sulkies have a leg issue or a lame day yet.

 

[Sossigpoker]

The joint damage may not show until the horse is older with things like side bone and ring bone.

 

[paddi22]

The joint damage may not show until the horse is older with things like side bone and ring bone.

true - just going from my lot though, I have some that are 19 and the leg issues haven't kicked in yet. but thats only a very small group and I could be lucky.

 

[Roxylola]

I've ridden a few pacers, one could never really be re-educated to not pace at any opportunity- hed successfully raced in his day and became a riding horse later in life. The others would pace but could trot and canter if you kept them balanced and not too fast.
Supercob is a ride and drive too. Primarily a driving horse, and he certainly was driving before being backed to ride
All have been as mentioned great in traffic, very straight and very symmetrical.
In most cases theyve had to be educated to bend and sit. Its taken us a while to produce a medium trot that is more push than pull.
He has a fantastic set of shoulders on him, but it can make his neck and quarters look weak - they wouldn't be without the huge shoulders.
His left shoulder is a bit bigger than the right, and no amount of work has managed to alter that.
Rara would be a good one to get in touch with - she competes driven at a pretty high level, and does ridden competition as well. Hers are sporty types that could easily be straight ridden horses as opposed to retrained racers or classic ride and drive cobs

 

[meleeka]

Mine aren’t strictly ride and drive, but they went from driving horses to riding. They are pretty bomb proof and if they are spooked, they always stay in a straight like, which is helpful.

The only negatives are that they do drift to the middle of the road. They are also both a bit spooky off road, probably because they always wore blinkers and didn’t have much experience of anything other than roads.

 

[scruffyponies]

All mine are ridden and driven with lots of fast work on the road. Anyone who thinks driven horses don't canter has never followed me up a hill!

Re leg damage: Mine are barefoot, which may make a difference, but have no issues whatever with lameness. This includes half a dozen which have been with me all their lives and are now in their mid 20s. They will sometimes be unwilling to gallop on hard grass in summer, but not on tarmac, which has more 'give'.

I echo the poster above who observed that circles on soft ground are a much bigger worry.

 

[rara007]

Horses are horses. Just because they drive they won’t all have been hammered trotting on the roads and they won’t all be bombproof in traffic! Most will have a better standard of obedience as it’s just too dangerous to have something without manners. Ie You can easily ‘ignore’ moving off at the mounting block, less so putting too.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I had an old horse book that stated that lots of roadwork was needed to 'condition' legs to prevent lameness. This was in regards to getting eventers fit and it was the old walk on the road for x weeks, slowly introduce trot over x weeks and then walk & trot for x weeks. It was something like 12 weeks of nothing but walking and trotting on the roads.

 

[paddi22]

yeah when I think back to my youth we would fitter hunters by literally clattering them up roads for hours at a time! now on my own horses I just do restricted trot and only uphill for a min or so at a time.

it's so hard to know what to do. I get a lot of sport horses in for rehab and the most messed up ones are the higher-end ones that seem to go from being broken to being ridden solely in arenas for comps, training and clinics. they are the ones that get the tendon and ligament injuries from what I have seen?

I know for my own horses I always plan to get roadwork done for a prolonged period at the start of their ridden career, but it's hard to know what's best to do.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

The horse I knew with horrendous side and ring bone had awful conformation (really upright hooves and pasterns which were also short, so not good for shock absorption). She was young too and had been retired due to her issues.

I do wonder if the shift away from 'roadwork hardens legs and prevents injuries' has happened alongside the greater traffic on the roads. It's logical to want to stay in the school if the traffic is bad in your area, then if someone says that hammering legs on the road damages them, you are primed to believe it and maybe apply it to all roadwork due to conformation bias?

Maybe I'm stretching a bit, but anecdotally I did know a lot of horses with PSD issues that were worked in the school or walker usually and hardly ever hacked. When they did hack it was not what I would call a hack as 5 mins down the lane and then turn and go back is a bit short IMO.

I don't know, I'm rambling a bit now.

 

[milliepops]

David Marlin, love him or hate him, has done some articles about roadwork and the hardening legs thing.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1248725771998308&id=233421046862124

 

[Meowy Catkin]

That's interesting. No limit for walking on the road - up to 5 mins per day for trotting is best in his opinion.

This link goes into a bit more detail. https://davidmarlin.co.uk/portfolio...o-review-trotting-on-roads-to-get-horses-fit/

 

[sbloom]

By definition they have learned to move more down through the shoulder, that is how you pull a load. However, the best ones will have been developed not to do that too much, and to work a little more over the back etc. As a saddle fitter if a horse was started driving before ridden you can usually tell, it can make them trickier for saddle fitting and I would emphasise my normal advice of groundwork, groundwork, groundwork.

Put in the time to lift the thoracic sling, teach them how to move correctly and prepare them better to carry a rider which DOES require different things than pulling a load. Along with better posture will come a change in response to aiding, as they shift their balance backwards you should find that any potential loss of brakes etc dimishes. This is broad brush stuff, but from the mainly cobs I see that have been drive, it rings true for most.

I don't know if he still stands by this (if anyone uses him perhaps they can ask him!) but from his experience in the household cavalry Cliver Meers Rainger farrier said that once a horse is hardened off on the roads the longer your trotting interval the better. He explained that once you get the blood flowing the concussive element decreases and at something like 30 seconds is outweighed by the benefits of the increased blood flow through the circulatory system in the leg (the digital cushion).

 

[paddi22]

I don't know if he still stands by this (if anyone uses him perhaps they can ask him!) but from his experience in the household cavalry Cliver Meers Rainger farrier said that once a horse is hardened off on the roads the longer your trotting interval the better. He explained that once you get the blood flowing the concussive element decreases and at something like 30 seconds is outweighed by the benefits of the increased blood flow through the circulatory system in the leg (the digital cushion).

thats really interesting. because I did really question how the sulkies racers still had their legs working and stayed so sound and hardy. like if there was any start to life you wouldn't want it's being shod as a foal and clattered in trot down a road while your joints were unformed. yet I've met tons of people who retrained them and without fail the one thing they say is never lame/never leg issues. I never understood it. and yet I've well bred and well-treated sport horses in now for rehab who just don't stay sound and have only been on the best surfaces.