Advice appreciated - Confidence gone

[ladygreytea]

now that’s established you can focus on your own thoughts. As already said the things that happened to your previous mares were complete accidents. Even with the best care things can happen to horses and it isn’t anyone’s fault. You’ll get your confidence back with a steady lesson horse and in time the memory of being afraid of grace will fade, and with some ground work in a year or so then a total rebreaking (get a professional involved don’t just throw a saddle on and hope she remembers herself) you’ll be grand.

Also also, photos?!? She sounds beautiful.

Thank you
Colics have become my worst fear haha it's unexpected and sometimes the day before everything is completely fine
I'm not sure I can ever fully accept it was out of my control but I know she had a great life while being here and probably has a great time wherever she is now
https://pin.it/3LRfG9m10
https://pin.it/5KUQsXtYo
Here's some recent pictures of Grace

 

[ladygreytea]

Don't be fooled some Arab's have wide mouths my 2 are in 5.5 inch bits and are only 15h and 15.3 although they are of a substantial build.

Your filly is so young she will still be slightly built so most tack is going to be huge.

If she is cribbing she needs to be out more especially as she is so young.

If your really struggling with confidence around this horse and not providing what she needs why don't you sell her, you can then buy something older that you can ride and get your confidence back.

Ah Grace doesn't crib!
My former Holsteiner mare Chiara was a cribber and so was Rapunzel, the Trakehner mare
They spend almost all day out in pasture, I take Grace out at 7:30am and bring her inside at 9pm
Now that its summer I try to max out their time out in pasture as much as possible
When it's too warm they stay the night out too

 

[ladygreytea]

Don't be fooled some Arab's have wide mouths my 2 are in 5.5 inch bits and are only 15h and 15.3 although they are of a substantial build.

Your filly is so young she will still be slightly built so most tack is going to be huge.

If she is cribbing she needs to be out more especially as she is so young.

If your really struggling with confidence around this horse and not providing what she needs why don't you sell her, you can then buy something older that you can ride and get your confidence back.

And thank you for the kind advice! I am definitely considering, a friend who raises Arabs and breeds halter line could give her the training and adequate care she needs
I'm planning on talking with him soon so fingers crossed I can figure out a sensible solution thats beneficial first and foremost for Grace

 

[ladygreytea]

I apologise for the misunderstanding. I just realised where you are! In the Southern hemisphere.
So when you first met her it was winter and she was what we would call "rising 3".
Now she is rising 4

Regards handling her. Was she at a big ranch where they start many horses & don't treat them as pets?

I had a mare who started life as a team chaser & then was a hunt hireling on a big yard. She had been treated kindly but with professional detachment . To her life's end she never came to understand or enjoy cuddles, stroking etc. She would wicker at me when I arrived & seemed to like being near me but she was only ever ok with "needful handling", like grooming & tacking up & she liked a fixed routine so she knew when those things would happen. When she was put in the stable to eat they walked away because they were busy & that's what she was used to.

Your girl is much younger & can get used to being a pet but take it easy with her & let her have a lot of her own space while she gets used to her new life.

No worries, misunderstandings happen

Also thank you for that bit of extra knowledge! I didn´t know about "rising" when stating a horses age, but definitely makes sense

A bit of background info on her; she comes from a halter line Arabian breeder who focuses on early contact and mostly showing his horses, not riding them
Grace was born on October 16th 2020 if that helps!
She was later purchased around April-May 2023 by a friend who works with Arabs, Appaloosas, Quarter Horses and Chilean Corraleros
He is starting in the world of American NRHA and AQHA, specifically breeding
He has a lot of experience with handling green horses but is very old school in his way of doing things
There's lots I don't approve of but he is very affectionate and gentle when handling his horses
He'd purchased Grace initially as a breeding prospect and was looking to get a foal out of her until I purchased her from him in August
He mainly used her for trail and herding cattle, but he didn't tell me to what extent he would push her or for how long, wish I could give more info on that

 

[Quigleyandme]

I know people here in Ireland that are truly passionate about their horses but their ways are very old fashioned and out of step with our present greater knowledge and understanding. I’ve been railroaded into acquiescence in the past and feel awful about it but I’ve learned and won’t make the same errors again. I do think things are changing here. People in the UK, US and Europe are less willing to buy a three year old that has been rough broken, by which I mean backed but not schooled, and hunted a handful of times by some insanely brave teen before being put on the market because horses are a business here. Buyers increasingly want them unbroken (unspoilt) or properly started.

 

[ladygreytea]

I know people here in Ireland that are truly passionate about their horses but their ways are very old fashioned and out of step with our present greater knowledge and understanding. I’ve been railroaded into acquiescence in the past and feel awful about it but I’ve learned and won’t make the same errors again. I do think things are changing here. People in the UK, US and Europe are less willing to buy a three year old that has been rough broken, by which I mean backed but not schooled, and hunted a handful of times by some insanely brave teen before being put on the market because horses are a business here. Buyers increasingly want them unbroken (unspoilt) or properly started.

We are in sort of the same boat then. I have taken horse welfare very seriously since the fall I took last year, brushing up on knowledge I had, unlearning a lot of the cowboy mentality I had ingrained
It can be really tricky, especially when being ridiculed by peers or not taken seriously for putting the horse first and not success. Sometimes I feel like its me whose at fault when I hear friends or family talk about them breaking colts while wearing ridiculous star-shaped spurs
Horses here are definitely seen more as tools, rodeo (or medialuna) is a national sport and most horses where I live are used for ranch work, mostly cutting

 

[ycbm]

We are in sort of the same boat then. I have taken horse welfare very seriously since the fall I took last year, brushing up on knowledge I had, unlearning a lot of the cowboy mentality I had ingrained
It can be really tricky, especially when being ridiculed by peers or not taken seriously for putting the horse first and not success. Sometimes I feel like its me whose at fault when I hear friends or family talk about them breaking colts while wearing ridiculous star-shaped spurs
Horses here are definitely seen more as tools, rodeo (or medialuna) is a national sport and most horses where I live are used for ranch work, mostly cutting

Well you're on the right forum here LGT, hopefully we can help support you in your beliefs. The first thing I would advise is that you trust your own judgement more. You knew that tack didn't fit and you knew you shouldn't ride in it but everyone around you was saying "oh stop fussing and get on with it", and your fall was a result of riding when you didn't really believe you should be.

You've got a great attitude, I think you'll get on well here.
.

 

[Wishfilly]

Just for interest, I used to work for a lady who bred Arabs, and she would only back very lightly at 4 because in her opinion they were not mature before that. Some of her horses she left until 5, which I know some people will think is too late, but equally many of her horses are still sound and healthy in their 20s. They often didn't do much work as 4 year olds, and often didn't really start in an arena until they were about 6. Like I say, I know some people will think that's too slow, but the horses she produces are all genuinely lovely all rounders who tend to stay sound for a long time.

Arabs can also be tricky to fit a saddle to, as they have a specific shape, and their way of going can often cause ill-fitting saddles to move around a lot. Most Arabs (indeed most horses) will react to this- but I do think Arabs are very quick learners and will quickly figure out what is causing them the pain. My experience of Arabs mares especially is that they can get tricky in the stable if they think you are going to do something that will make them uncomfortable/unhappy.

If it were me, I probably wouldn't try to ride again until next year and ensure I had well fitting tack when I came to ride again. I'd do a lot of ground work this summer to rebuild trust etc- make it fun and enjoyable for her- not just endless circles. I'd probably try and re-back in the spring (ideally with the help of an experienced person on the ground), slowly and carefully reintroducing tack- I'd start as if I was starting from scratch.

To be clear, I think Arabs are amazing, and can be a lot more chilled than the stereotype suggests, but I do also think they will only give you limited chances to get it wrong. I definitely wouldn't want to ride her and get it wrong again.

 

[ladygreytea]

Just for interest, I used to work for a lady who bred Arabs, and she would only back very lightly at 4 because in her opinion they were not mature before that. Some of her horses she left until 5, which I know some people will think is too late, but equally many of her horses are still sound and healthy in their 20s. They often didn't do much work as 4 year olds, and often didn't really start in an arena until they were about 6. Like I say, I know some people will think that's too slow, but the horses she produces are all genuinely lovely all rounders who tend to stay sound for a long time.

Arabs can also be tricky to fit a saddle to, as they have a specific shape, and their way of going can often cause ill-fitting saddles to move around a lot. Most Arabs (indeed most horses) will react to this- but I do think Arabs are very quick learners and will quickly figure out what is causing them the pain. My experience of Arabs mares especially is that they can get tricky in the stable if they think you are going to do something that will make them uncomfortable/unhappy.

If it were me, I probably wouldn't try to ride again until next year and ensure I had well fitting tack when I came to ride again. I'd do a lot of ground work this summer to rebuild trust etc- make it fun and enjoyable for her- not just endless circles. I'd probably try and re-back in the spring (ideally with the help of an experienced person on the ground), slowly and carefully reintroducing tack- I'd start as if I was starting from scratch.

To be clear, I think Arabs are amazing, and can be a lot more chilled than the stereotype suggests, but I do also think they will only give you limited chances to get it wrong. I definitely wouldn't want to ride her and get it wrong again.

Thank you so much for the thoughts and commenting! Much appreciated

I have little experience with Arabians so reading this is super valuable.
With the saddle she has gained good muscle and weight since last year but she has a high back (not sure if I´m explaining correctly because English isn´t my first language but the saddle tree would have to be narrower and definitely fitted), Grace still has room to grow though so she could still fill out her shoulders and back a bit

I am definitely not riding her again until she has proper groundwork, at least an extra year and time to develop good muscle
It would be really unfair for her to not be given the chance to properly gain her footing and for me to be a better rider too

I´m quite surprised as to how affectionate and people-oriented they are when compared to the warmbloods I have been around (not to say there aren´t extra cuddly warmbloods, ponies or drafts! Just my personal experience so far)
They´re more spirited and vocal definitely, but nothing terrible like the stereotypes would suggest

 

[Jemima50]

16.4 hh , really ?

 

[ladygreytea]

Well you're on the right forum here LGT, hopefully we can help support you in your beliefs. The first thing I would advise is that you trust your own judgement more. You knew that tack didn't fit and you knew you shouldn't ride in it but everyone around you was saying "oh stop fussing and get on with it", and your fall was a result of riding when you didn't really believe you should be.

You've got a great attitude, I think you'll get on well here.
.

Thank you for the encouragement, it definitely helps and its why I decided to join the Forum too

Being surrounded by old-school cowpokes who´ll call you names does indeed not help haha, I´ve learnt though and will work on standing my ground more as well as listen to reason
So, I hope to stick around and grow as a rider and person with everyone here

 

[ladygreytea]

A bit under 172cm height, she was really big but her dam was slightly bigger at 173 and so was the sire at 175cm, both dam and sire were Holsteiners from jumping lineage but Chiara could not be bothered to jump a cavaletti even if I promised a bucket of carrots

 

[Ratface]

My purebred Crabbet Arabian gelding is 31 years old in July. He was started as a 5yr old and turned away for two years as he just kept on growing! He's 16hh, which is tall for his type and breed. He's still sound, but I'm the one who isn't, so he's living his best life, turned out with his little herd and perfectly managed by his breeder, who won everything there was to win in her day.
In my experience, Arabians don't forget inappropriate handling. My previous Arabian (sadly deceased) recognised the perpetrator of previous brutal behaviour and chased him up a muck heap, where he cornered him, snake neck out, teeth reaching for him. We had to rattle grass nuts in a scoop to lure him away.
I hope that your next horse suits you better.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Thank you so much for the thoughts and commenting! Much appreciated

I have little experience with Arabians so reading this is super valuable.
With the saddle she has gained good muscle and weight since last year but she has a high back (not sure if I´m explaining correctly because English isn´t my first language but the saddle tree would have to be narrower and definitely fitted), Grace still has room to grow though so she could still fill out her shoulders and back a bit

I am definitely not riding her again until she has proper groundwork, at least an extra year and time to develop good muscle
It would be really unfair for her to not be given the chance to properly gain her footing and for me to be a better rider too

I´m quite surprised as to how affectionate and people-oriented they are when compared to the warmbloods I have been around (not to say there aren´t extra cuddly warmbloods, ponies or drafts! Just my personal experience so far)
They´re more spirited and vocal definitely, but nothing terrible like the stereotypes would suggest

Most Arab's are very people oriented both of mine are they will follow me around like dogs and I think both would love to chill out on the sofa if they could.

 

[wobbley]

I have Arabs and I left them until they were at least 5 yrs old before they were backed, wouldn't of even given it a thought at 2 years old. Still did the basics, leading, rugging grooming,loading, meeting scary things etc. Left them, and still do when they are eating, I see it like this, I wouldn't like anyone messing with me when I was trying to eat my food, so I respect them, and I get mutile respect from them back. Turn her away and build a rapport with her, once you have that, progress slowly, let her mature in her own time, don't rush as it will spoil her, Good Luck

 

[littleshetland]

To a certain extent, you have to fit in your handling and behaviour to fit in around her personality. If I tried to groom one of mine while he was eating his feed, he'd probably try and hospitalise me, and yet in all other respects he's as good as gold. They all have different personalities, and a good 'horsewoman' will accept this and work with it and around it.
Give her lots of time, patience and when the time comes, tack that fits properly. Good luck with your baby horse!

 

[Lucas26]

To a certain extent, you have to fit in your handling and behaviour to fit in around her personality. If I tried to groom one of mine while he was eating his feed, he'd probably try and hospitalise me, and yet in all other respects he's as good as gold. They all have different personalities, and a good 'horsewoman' will accept this and work with it and around it.
Give her lots of time, patience and when the time comes, tack that fits properly. Good luck with your baby horse!

I also have a new horse, and I could not figure her out, I'll try this out and hope it works

 

[Elno]

She has begun questioning where I stand in regards to her, yesterday and today trying to bite me as soon as I take her out of her box and then kick when I want to groom her while she is feeding.

I'm putting this here not because I believe a single word of this epic but because someone else might wander by and think it's OK to groom your horse at mealtimes. It's not. If you like being groomed while you are enjoying a meal then fine but most people don't so have some respect for the horse

If you would try to groom my mare in her box eating hay you would most likely end up as a very wet, slimy spot on the wall. Box = private sphere. Box + eating= enter at your own peril. Otherwise she is a very nice and gentle "person", but with very high integrity. Love her to bloody bits, that one.

Mare's are not for everyone.