advice needed - horse vetting failed

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SpanishNeddy

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I need some advice as I do not know what to do!

So, I am looking at buying a new PRE Andalusian (I already own one I imported few years ago).

I have been searching for AGES, always keeping watch on what is about (in UK & Spain) and I pretty much know all the agents.

I have found one I totally love. We agreed on price and my trainer and I were going out to Spain to ride and for the vetting. The day I was about to book the flights I walked into my yard watching his videos and telling me he isn't right behind :( which was a total shock to me.

I told the agent who got her vet to look at him (as they thought we were talking rubbish) and her vet said he was 1/5 lame left him cold flexion BUT sound after on the lunge 5-10 mins.

The horse is 8 years old and his owner didnt do much with him before (mostly hacking and some schooling). But to sell him she has had a GP rider training him for the past 3 months.

In case you do not know in Spain (sorry if you do) they don't really do things slowly like we do! I mean they have already taught him piaffe and passage (not well I might add!). So they have been pushing him. I do not care about all the tricks just so you know but it is hard to find a PRE in spain that doesn't know at least some of the tricks.

Anyway, I have sent the videos to my vet who have agreed he is weaker left hind BUT have said it could be nothing OR it could be serious. Here is the risk!

The owner and agent are totally convinced it is nothing and is just muscular because he has been in intense training. But they would say that wouldnt they.

My yard think I should let him go as too risky and I already have one tricky one they don't want me to have another problem.

Thing is I could buy an apparent sound one then he could go getting an injury in the field the next day!

It is just so difficult, he is so lovely and perfect for me in everyway. If I knew it was soft tissue or something then that is fine to me.

They always come over to uk needing teeth done, good saddle etc as they never do that out there. Plus they don't ride them like we do here. With this horse it is too much about the collection when he can not really do the long low thing at the moment. That is just the way they do it though.

I really don't know what to do!

I could get x rays but then I would need to do so many and even if they are clear doesn't rule out kissing spine and all of that does it. All the x rays are going to cost me loads.

The agent is not being helpful and said if i want x rays i have to pay for it as that is the way it works. I like a horse I get it vetted.

I was set on no yesterday but today I want him again :(

HELP any advice? what would you do?

Thank you
 
What a toughy! Just a little food for thought but what would you be doing with him, if this problem has come from doing more work then there is the possibility that when you work him regularly it could get worse etc sorry to not be much help but I would be cautious buying a horse that was already showing signs of problems due to work personally if it was me I wouldn't and keep on searching.
 
Ours failed his vetting - he was 2/10 lame after flexion - but he was only £1 and we were prepared to take a gamble. It has worked because he is now sound as a pound and a very nice horse.

It depends on what you can afford to do - what would happen if he didn't come right - could he become a hack (I suspect not but know v little about PREs), would you PTS, could he become a field companion.... If you don't know what you would do/could afford to do if he doesn't come right then walk away now. If you can afford to write the costs off and you think he'd have a future even if he didn't come right (or you could PTS) then worth a gamble.

Not sure if that helps, sorry
 
Thank you both.

In answer to your questions:

I want him for breed showing and dressage. But mainly dressage as my other PRE is a super showing horse and this one isn't a patch on my current one conformation wise.

If he was to be no good for ridden work then it would be a big problem. The horse is a stallion to start with and I already have one PRE that is a hot tricky ride and he is on schooling livery and will be for a few more years yet. We have no good hacking where we are so if he couldnt be ridden it would be a nightmare situation!
 
If you do decide to buy, I think you should negotiate a price as if it is a serious veterinary problem. I'd not pay the price as if he's fine, when you know for sure that there's something wrong. Even for the right price you'd still be taking a chance, but as you say buying horses is a risk anyway. I guess it depends how much of a gambler you are.
 
Well this is the thing, they wont even consider loewing the price! it is crazy I tried this. I also tried getting the owner to pay for the x rays, after all it is HER horse!

They have said if I want the horse I can put deposit down, pay for vetting and x rays and if there is something serious they will refund me the deposit. The thing is WHO determines what is a problem.....them or me! what I may not be happy with they may think is fine and keep my deposit money. Not sure how I would safe guard this one??

He is not cheap by the way either. Although they knocked his cost down for me anyway and to others he is more.
 
I can understand the seller not wanting to pay for xrays. It's you who wants them done, the seller probably is not that fussed what the problem is because they are selling. I'd walk away. Why would you want a horse for high level dressage which doesn't have good conformation? It's asking for problems further down the line. IME horses without good conformation don't stand upto heavy work. This one has already gone lame with some serious work. If they won't drop the price then forget it for that reason too.
 
Well if you want X-rays you will have to pay for them I would not expect the owner to pay for them .
It depends how deep your pockets are ,how much you can afford to spend/ loose how much heartache you are prepared to risk and how much you love the horse.
TBH I dont have many horses now we have four if I where you and I loved the horse I think the only way forward would be would be flying our vet out to look .
But If it where me I would be walking away what ever way you look at it the horse is lame it is not 1/10 lame on flexion it is visibly lame viewed on a video why buy trouble you want a horse to use not keep a vet in sking holidays.
 
Goldenstar said:
Well if you want X-rays you will have to pay for them I would not expect the owner to pay for them .
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Personally, if I had a horse for sale which failed a vetting - or was likely to fail a vetting - he'd be OFF the market until I'd had him x-rayed and got him sound!

He's not going to be cheap, then there's transport costs, and the seller figures that the worst that can happen is that one buyer isn't happy (and a buyer a long way away at that!)

Run away!
 
Personally I wouldnt buy the horse. As you say an injury can happen the day after purchase but why buy a horse with a problem? Problems/injuries happen there is no need to buy them.
If you are prepared to buy a horse which may need to spend a lot of time off or may never be sound enough to ride/do what you want eg dressage. then its your money and your time and if you are prepared to have a field ornament for years until the end of the horses natural life then its your decision. On the other hand the horse may come sound. Just dont buy it expecting it to come sound and do what you want then bwe disappointed if it doesnt.
 
JanetGeorge said:
Personally, if I had a horse for sale which failed a vetting - or was likely to fail a vetting - he'd be OFF the market until I'd had him x-rayed and got him sound!

He's not going to be cheap, then there's transport costs, and the seller figures that the worst that can happen is that one buyer isn't happy (and a buyer a long way away at that!)

Run away!
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That's because you are a top end producer JG this owner and agent is hoping for someone who will get in the warm and leave their common sense at the airport.
And you are right I said walk away running would be better.
 
Actually Goldenstar I would do the same and that was my point. If I was selling a horse then it was noticed not right I would (as the owner) investigate it. Don't think it has got anything to do with being a top end producer! as I am not.
 
I would either walk away, or you wait a week or two (in case its a minor temporary thing of no importance) and then get a full 5 stage with x rays and bloods and get the report and the x rays reviewed by your english vet, or have the vetting done by a vet recommended to you by an english vet you trust. I would not rely on any vet recommended by the agents or the sellers I'm afraid. If you get the vetting and the vet says no, then walk away. It may feel like lost money but its really money you have saved by not buying a crocked horse.

Edited to add that I agree with Goldenstar they are hoping for an eejit who has left their common sense at the airport, I would also question the attitude of the sellers in having zero interest checking the issue out - it would not give me a good feeling about the seller.
 
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I'd walk away from this purchase. We all know horses are like buses you wait around for ages then they all come at once. Good luck in your search.
 
The thing about X-rays from abroad as well I know my vet does not like to interpret them as there's no guarantee that they are even from the horse you are looking at she only wants to look at ones she has taken .
I agree the owner ought to be rushing to her vet to sort this out but it does not surprise me that they are not .
 
seems everyone is saying this to me, even off this forum.

I am so totally gutted :(

So frustrating, he is everything I want. I'm such a fuss pot you see, out of looking at hundreds I still only like him!

Would just so frustrate me if I saw him out and about doing well and being fine and it only to be a silly thing that passed. I will just never know unless I spend lots of money finding out :(
 
Regarding x rays my friend (who is an equine vet) has provided me details of a practice in the area that she recommends.

I have spoken to them and the vet actually used to work in UK as a practice I know local to me (she is british).

So I have found good vet practice to see him. They were due to take x rays on Monday but I cancelled as changed my mind.

So finding good vet is not an issue.
 
I had to make this decision before but the horse was going to france. I didnt buy her, she was perfect for me but some days would show up slightly lame on the right lunge through er shoulder. Anyway after a long consideration, i didnt buy her. Best thing I ever did. She was sold for half the asking price to a youngish lad for him to sj but problems persist. She was ruined as she was broken extremly early and worked too hard for her joints. Her schooling was perfect for a 4yo and she had jumped like 100 shi courses and had substancial points... My point is if they seem too good to be true, with a slight problem, dont rush and buy just because you think they are perfect. I eventually bought a 5yo with nothing done except backed with nice movement and jump. Best thing ever, he wasnt perfect at the start but he is not.
For a while I regretted after for not buying her, but trust me it will not be worth the hasstle and heard break if the horse does not come right after bringing it so far! Hope you choose the right thing for you! =)
 
I had to make this decision before but the horse was going to france. I didnt buy her, she was perfect for me but some days would show up slightly lame on the right lunge through er shoulder. Anyway after a long consideration, i didnt buy her. Best thing I ever did. She was sold for half the asking price to a youngish lad for him to sj but problems persist. She was ruined as she was broken extremly early and worked too hard for her joints. Her schooling was perfect for a 4yo and she had jumped like 100 shi courses and had substancial points... My point is if they seem too good to be true, with a slight problem, dont rush and buy just because you think they are perfect and someone else will snap them up. I eventually bought a 5yo with nothing done except backed with nice movement and jump. Best thing ever, he wasnt perfect at the start but he is not.
For a while I regretted after for not buying her, but trust me it will not be worth the hasstle and heard break if the horse does not come right after bringing it so far! Hope you choose the right thing for you! =)
 
Ok, good, at least you have a vet you can trust if you do decide to vet it.

I feel your pain. I found a fantastic horse in denmark which I really really wanted but he had substantial bony chnages in his hock of the variety likely to become a spavin in short order. This was on the old x rays and new ones showed further degradation. The sellers clearly thought I would use their local vet who was not concerned. I used a vet my vet sister recommended and had the x rays looked at by her and one of her colleagues too, and I just had to walk away. I was gutted but I could have ended up with a very pricey field ornament. I ended up with a youngster and I don't regret it at all now. But at the time I was gutted.
 
SpanishNeddy said:
Regarding x rays my friend (who is an equine vet) has provided me details of a practice in the area that she recommends.

I have spoken to them and the vet actually used to work in UK as a practice I know local to me (she is british).

So I have found good vet practice to see him. They were due to take x rays on Monday but I cancelled as changed my mind.

So finding good vet is not an issue.
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Good to know for the next one.
 
Earlier this year I thought about buying a Pre and did loads of research. Two things became apparent to me - the culture in Spain as regards schooling and welfare are somewhat different to UK, many of the videos showed horses with uneven striding, conformational problems and too many tricks taught very early. Secondly, the prices were very high for what is a considerable gamble.

I did find several UK breeders and trainers which must be a safer option if you are prepared to wait for the right one. Their youngsters had been kindly started and looked to be following the scales of training.

In the end I did buy a youngster - was he a Pre? No, an Irish Draft :rolleyes: :rolleyes:He has lovely paces and looks quite Andalusian, strangely-is there Iberian blood way back in ID's, I wonder? He is so sensible and quick to learn. Good luck with your decision though :)
 
SpanishNeddy said:
I want him for breed showing and dressage. But mainly dressage as my other PRE is a super showing horse and this one isn't a patch on my current one conformation wise.

!
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For me, if he isn't good enough to show at the level of your other, then he isn't good enough to contemplate putting years into training for dressage in the hope that he won't break down.

Especially with a hind limb issue when that's where you want the power to come from. Definite no for me, sorry :(
 
Oh dear it is a no isnt it :(

Despite knowing the intentions of the agent and seller when they tell me it's nothing I am trying to hold onto to that fact!

So gutted he is just gorgeous and perect.

Do you want to see picture? I might make you change your mind :D:D:D
 
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