Advice needed please, big, strong, dominant with a massive problemdog..

PonyFeet10

PonyFeet10

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My neighbour has been given a 16 month old American Bull Dog Cross, he is not as big as a bullmastiff, probably crossed with a staffy type. The dog is a full male, and is VERY dominant. As this is not my dog I don't have a say in what happens to him but just want to help his owner out as he is trying his best to work with him.

From what we can gather the dog hasn't had any interaction with other dogs etc and has been kept in the house all of his life with occasional walks up the road to the shop and back.

The dog IS dog aggressive, he has been occasionally ok with my female staff (who is great with other dogs) but then he will just snap and go for her, showing his teeth and snapping to bite her (We are keeping them far enough apart so he can't reach) Then he will be good as gold with her like she has been there all of his life?

As a result of this we muzzled him to make sure he couldn't actually bite her but he just went skits! He was actually screeming, growling and trying to bite to get the muzzle off, throwing himself around and being generally vile. When he settled we took the muzzle off (not that we wanted to by this point!). When the muzzle came off we noticed he was bleeding and saw it was his dew claw which he had ripped in the commotion. When the dog noticed I was looking at it but not touching it at all he snapped at me as a warning to stay away.

We have been working to get him used to seeing other dogs too, my two dogs in fact. However the first time we brought my staff out he was pulling so frantically he wore his long nails down the the quick in minutes trying to drag himself to her. He's got a lot better with my female staff but any other dogs he still goes mad at!

He is wearing a harness which the front legs go in to and it does up on top of his back with two rings to attach the lead to. He is unbelievably strong in this, we originally had him in a collar but that pretty much choked him. We haven't tried a choker as we believe they do way more damage than good and that he would just ignore it. Also tried putting a halti collar on him but he snapped as soon as it touched his nose.

He hasn't actually bitten any one yet, it's just a warning. He is food aggressive, and bed aggressive too.

His owner is adamant he is going to get this dog though this but I've already told him what I think..

So my main questions are:

How exactly do we muzzle him without getting bitten in the process, and how on earth do we go about calming him down once one is on? And getting him used to it?

Also any suggestions on what else can be used to restrain him whilst walking? I'm actually worried that the harness may give way he is that strong..

The dog doesn't respond to voice at all, no matter how much you shout and scream he just ignores you. He has also got this horrid bark which sounds like he's in the process of killing another dog, it gets a lot of peoples attention understandably.

Any help would be fantastic.. Thanks!
 
She need to get his nads off.
She cannot do this in your own or with advice over the internet, she needs to get a trainer or behaviourist used to large, powerful breeds NOW, this may incur considerable time, expense and travel.
If she is not prepared to do this then the dog needs to be given to someone with good history in dealing with bull breeds, or to be PTS, sorry.
This dog will not be fixed overnight.

The harness gives him the strength advantage by the way, think about it, it is strapped to the strongest part of him, they strap huskies to sleds with harnesses so they can pull them better, and his head, neck, eyes and mouth have full freedom to stare at and gob off at every dog he sees, I don't see what you have against using a choke chain for safety, he is taking the mick out of you otherwise.
 
This is a dog with serious problems, the only thing I think he has going for him is the fact that he hasnt actualy bitten just growled and snapped.

Im with CC on this get him neutered and a very experienced behaviourist to see him, if your friend cant afford it then the only option is pts. His behavour will escalate unless this is sorted and that dosnt bear thinking of.

As to getting a muzzle on him Ive no idea, I would have been tempted to leave it on. As CC says its impossible to diagnose over the internet, you might have left out important parts about his body language etc. This is no criticism of you or your friend but you need professional help now.
 
There is only one sensible and responsible answer to this question and if the owner doesn't know, there is no point in trying to explain it to him.

I suggest he makes sure his insurance is up to date for when (not "if") a child gets bitten in the face. Why do these geniuses always think they can rehabilitate a dangerous dog? There are millions of nice friendly socialised dogs out there looking for a home, so why waste time on a nut case?
 
I wont pretend to know how to rehab a dog like this but my BiL helped his friend with a nasty rottie x a few years back. The vet gave it an injection - I think it might have been similar to a chemical castration as it lowered testosterone levels faster than if he'd just been de-balled. I have a feeling it was pts in the end tho as nothing could make it 'nice'.
 
Need someone who knows what they are doing- sharpish- wish wish wish wish someone (namely the rescue!) had told me to get help the DAY i got Dex (dog reactive- big strong lad) - we would be much further along now

Do you know any more history of the dog? why it was given up?

As an aside I would go pretty psycho if someone suddenly put a cage on my face, which is my only form of defence- muzzle training takes time.

Stop trying to "get him used" to your dogs by restraining him and then showing him the thing he is reacting to- I personally would be avoiding ALL dogs for the time being.

Get a fixed headcollar- like a gentle leader, and get it on him if you can, and leave it there- wont kill him. and a check chain- although some dogs do not take to these- mine launches at the person checking him- but he is a bit spesh.
 
Thanks every one, you have all posted my thoughts exactly! I will pass on your advice to his owner, although I'm not sure if they will go ahead and get help :(

The day they brought him home he showed aggression and I told them to take him back! But they ignored it and decided to try and work with him.

I will mention insurance too for definite, they have an 8 year old child living with him and I have warned them fully about him biting her.

He doesn't show aggression in a way you would expect it.. The fur on his back is flat when he barks at other dogs and he wags his tail, and with people he literally just switches in the blink of an eye it's that quick when he snaps at you. There's no lip raising or anything, no warning.

The dog was actually in a home with quite a few kids, and the reason he was given up was because he was too hyperactive and they didn't have time for him. He had been rehomed and then returned due to again not enough time (apparently) before my neighbour got him. I personally think he has bitten or went to bite a member of their family or some one they knew.

I have already told them to get him neutered and they said they will do so as soon as they have the money to pay for it.

He has been getting better with walking with my dogs, ignoring them (after the initial first sight) rather than going wild for every minute out. And has been loads better with other dogs walking by too. It's just when he feels he is close enough he again switches within the blink of an eye to try a sneaky nip.

I don't suppose any one could suggest a large dog behaviourist in the Gloucestershire/Cheltenham area??
 
It never fails to surprise me, how the often inexperienced, all so often take on the dangerous projects, which those who know what they're doing, would have nothing to do with.

I'm really sorry P_F10, but a relatively young dog, at 16 months, which has a serious mind of its own, and has the problems which it has, is not for the novice. He's already made his mind up that he wont tolerate a muzzle (and he wont be the first), he's a very dangerous dog in the making, even though he's still young, and he's in the hands of someone who's out of their depth, from what you say.

Were the dog my responsibility, then I would put him down.

Alec.

Ets, one of the hardest dogs which I ever owned, had been neutered. It didn't make a scrap of difference. Testosterone, at advanced levels, all so often stays in place, after castration, because it's a behavioural problem, not one of a chemical make up, if that makes sense!! a.
 
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Cop-Pop said:
I wont pretend to know how to rehab a dog like this but my BiL helped his friend with a nasty rottie x a few years back. The vet gave it an injection - I think it might have been similar to a chemical castration as it lowered testosterone levels faster than if he'd just been de-balled. I have a feeling it was pts in the end tho as nothing could make it 'nice'.
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You can try castration, chemical or actual, but I agree with Alec and Cop-Pop, PTS is an option. He's learnt to use his weight and learned behaviour takes a long time to train out.

The chemical castration injection has been shown to increase the risk of tumours later in life.

There's an 8 year old kid in the house? I'd PTS, sorry.
 
Thank you Alec, I do 100% agree with you.

He won't allow anything around his nose, I've lost count of the amount of times he's tried to bite other dogs / people. I have a 2 year old daughter and she hasn't and will never meet him even though they live in the flat above us.

Whilst we were out earlier, my partner came over to our neighbour who was holding the dog and the dog was barking aggressively at him, looking for something to bite. My partner stepped back away from the dog and then left so not to provoke him but yesterday he was fine with him? Very odd behaviour but I think he has been left to rule the roost in his last home and now trying to dominate every body in his new home too.

It's a real shame, but I just hope it doesn't get to the point where he actually bites some body for them to realise he IS dangerous.
 
It also sounds like one very insecure dog who has never been socialised properly. Also (educated guess) sounds like he has an excess of energy to burn off which he can't do for safety reasons.

Might be worth pointing out that a good behaviourist will very very quickly assess and sort out the dog and save a lot of heartache as well. However, it also sounds (and apologies for being judgemental) like even if this dog was sorted out, your neighbours aren't the right people to maintain control and give the dog a good life.

And like you, I would keep your daughter away.
 
Sorry after having read your last few answers, I am going to join the PTS camp.
It's too much of a risk and from the sounds of it he is showing no warning signs and dare I say it, having fun.
I am not an expert but it also sounds like he either has fighting in his genetics or has been ragged around or had some sort of (very bad) groundwork in some sort of biting/attack work in a previous home.
 
Seeing as the behaviour is so erratic has he been properly checked over by a vet?

What rescue rehomed a dog of this size and nature to someone living in a flat with a young kid? or was it a private rescue?

Can the rescue offer no help?

If the dog is currently not insured, what happens if it gets hit by a car? if the family can not afford to neuter it, surely they could not pay for emergency treatment?
 
I'm afraid I'm in the pts camp. This poor dog sounds if he has too much going against him, I would also be concerned that if there is an incident he will be labelled "pit bull" and seized and incarcerated for god knows how long.
 
Like I said I agree with all of you. I do feel awful for being a part of this, however as I said before, I don't have any say in what happens to him.

He's such a good looking dog (for those of you that like bullys) and I think that is half of the reason why they are hanging on to him.

I said to his owners after the first sign of aggression that if he bites some body now it will be easy to have him put down, but if he bites some body in a months time, it will be 100x harder as they've got attached to him.

Also they said that after the first two signs of aggression he did it again he would go back to his original owners, well lets just say he has done it again countless times..

We tried putting a halti collar / gentle leader on him earlier today and he tried to bite his owner, only once but he was specifically looking to bite.. Not just a warning snap.

Thank you for all of your advice, again if any one knows of a large dog behaviourist in Gloucestershire/Cheltenham area please let me know and I will pass it on :)
 
Sorry but I thought this was living with adults. An aggressive unpredictable dog is living in a house with an 8yr old? I'd be tempted to call social services tbh as that is a disaster, full on, mauling waiting to happen :(
 
The poor sod..it is always the dog who cops it in the end ,is`nt it? He is living IN A FLAT!! Totally unsuitable,he needs loads of ground to "be a dog" ,freedom in a safe area.These breeds need space and time to dig/trash bushes ..all the stuff these breeds do for the Hell of it..but this poor sod is confined to a flat. Proper freedom and a good raw diet could sort him out quite rapidly, but it ain`t going to happen here. That might be ok for a chihuahua,but not these breeds. He is not only thoroughly frustrated by lack of free exercise,he also lacks a role model leader, something bull breeds need..once one is there they are pussycats.
No doubt the dog will die,none of it his fault though.Why do numpty novices do these "rescue" attempts..it usually leads to a dog being killed :mad:
 
Just picking up on EK's post - what are they feeding the dog? You may be able to make a little headway there.

As for behavourists - you could try ringing Angela Stockdale, she is quite a distance from you but she does travel a lot - she does a lot of work in Italy actually, and specialises in agressive dogs...

http://www.dogpartnership.com/

She never ever seems to answer the phone - so you just have to leave messages ;)
 
EK, do you really think this dog can be turned around? I thought so until he has shown all of this aggression.

By the way Both of my dogs live in a flat, both staffy types, both brought up from pups with us and both have no behavioural problems, happy as larry! Not getting defensive by the way, how ever I'm not really persuaded that this would work? Obviously the dog needs adequate exercise but to say it shouldn't live in a flat??

He is taken out for walks 5+ times a day as the owner is at home pretty much all day and understands he needs plenty of exercise.

Any more info you could send our way on the raw diet too? I've heard of it but not looked in to it. How do you think it will help him? At the moment he is just fed on biscuits.

Also thanks for the suggestions, will look in to them with his owner tomorrow! We are all very grateful for your input :)
 
However much he is exercised it is still formal "under control" ..what bullbreeds need is "freedom be a dog time",meaning no constant correction ..just mooching ,trashing . I cannot see this poor thing being turned around in the situation he is in,he expresses his sheer frustration by snapping.Believe me,if a bullbreed bites it hangs on and there is an awful lot of damage.This dog is NOT really being aggressive ..yet.. it is just pent up energy and frustration.Best to end it sooner rather than later,feel so sad and sorry for him ,he`s been dealt a dud card.
 
I have no experience in bull breeds whatsoever and nor do I live in a flat but I do have very fit and very active working bred dogs.

Whilst I am at work all day the dogs are kennelled in the garden with a very large pen and are exercised twice a day before and after work and it makes me wonder - just how different is this from a dog living in a flat? Although I have to say, how on earth you manage is beyond me, all the time I am home the back door is open and the dogs can run in and out.

But regardless of that, they are cooped up the major part of the day in kennels. But I have no behaviour problems at all - I will admit that when the dogs get their run it is on the open moors so they can run and run or they come riding with me.

But the point I am trying to get across is that you can keep dogs well exercised, mentally stimulated and happy even if you work full time if you are prepared to put the work in. So living in a flat and this dog that we are talking about is being taken out five times a day should be able to work if the exercise he gets is stimulating enough. The only thing that worries me, and I am making assumptions, is that he is living in a built up, urban area and not getting the free exercise he needs.
 
EAST KENT said:
However much he is exercised it is still formal "under control" ..what bullbreeds need is "freedom be a dog time",meaning no constant correction ..just mooching ,trashing .
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Shes spot on you know- the moment dex could be off lead somewhere really calmed him. Could lead walk him for 3 hours straight and he wouldnt be knackered..... 40 mins in a field chasing a ball or rummaging in the bushes- different dog.

Walking this dog 5 times a day, for what half an hour at a time will never tire this dog out.
 
Haven't read all the posts as too many but as an owner of bullbreeds I would say unless you get him neutered you are on a hiding to nothing.

I don't buy the ' in a flat' thing as bullbreeds ' mooch', however American bullbreeds and yours is a cross with what we don't know will need much more exercise as they are very big and bouncy. As long as they get a good stretch in a park a couple of times a day they are fine. This dog sounds horrendously bored and insecure. He is snapping in a defensive way.

Get his nuts off
Obtain a very good behaviorist as this dog is too much for a novice and he needs addressing quickly
Provide plenty of stimulation
Do not pass him on again. If everything has been done properly to give this dog the chance of rehabilitation and he's still not safe you will have to PTS. Kills me to say it because its not the dogs fault but he could do terrible damage to someone and that can't happen.
 
SusieT said:
Sorry but I thought this was living with adults. An aggressive unpredictable dog is living in a house with an 8yr old? I'd be tempted to call social services tbh as that is a disaster, full on, mauling waiting to happen :(
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My thoughts exactly. They know that their child is at risk, yet still continue to have the dog in the family home? How would they and you feel if the child is attacked or possibly killed and it SHOULD have been prevented? Disgusting.
 
http://www.companyofanimals.co.uk/dog-training-and-animal-behaviour-centre

Roger Mugford has been around for a long time and works across the country, sometimes through locals he knows and trusts. If possible, get the owner to speak to him personally on the telephone as he admits he prefers to discuss things rather than write!

BTW, he's dealt with biting dogs -- they were H M The Queen's corgis which were biting the palace footmen! Might be why they are looking for a new butler....:D
 
I am a great believer with staffies that they need to be worn out and a tired staffie is a well behaved one.

Speaks one who has 3 on the prowl atm - they flatly refused to exit the house this morning (howling wind and pouring rain) but are now giving me the evil eye, prowling and generally being a pain as they have not had their first rampage of the day.
 
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