Advice on loading issue

[frannieuk]

Hi everyone, I have an issue with loading a mare and I thought I’d tap in into the collective HHO wisdom!
Basically, she will load perfectly as long as another horse goes on first - she’s totally happy and relaxed about getting on the lorry, and she travels absolutely fine. However, asking her to load first, or on her own is virtually impossible- she balks at the ramp and either blocks or rears away. I’ve managed to get her on a few times by waiting her out and using pressure/release and once she’s on, she’s absolutely fine. It’s just the solo loading bit!
In terms of background, which I think is relevant, she’s a 10yo warmblood, imported as a 3yo, did a decent bit as a 4/5yo inc BYEH etc and then stayed in the field for a few years til I got her as a 9yo.
She’s a super sweet mare on the ground but will react very defensively if she feels under pressure, particularly when ridden so it’s been a question of building her confidence, allowing her to make mistakes but also recognising when she’s got a bit stubborn about something. In short, she’s an alpha mare, you can push her when she’s testing the boundaries but absolutely have to recognise when she’s genuinely anxious and really hold her hand.
However, I don’t get an anxious vibe off her about the loading issue, but any ideas you may have to help me find a way to resolve this would be much appreciated!
Thanks in advance ?

 

[Shay]

We had a similar issue with a young Connie. Only ever travelled in lorries and with others. He travelled from the dealer to us in a trailer with no issues - although the dealer did say she wasn't sure he would go on. We spent 3 or 4 months I think with loading practice interspersed with travelling only with a companion. Absolutely no issues if the other horse is on first. Got him travelling alone for one hunt season then out of the blue that summer he totally refused. He would have been just 6 then. Exactly the same as yours, plant at the ramp. Might put 2 feet on. Might not. Put on a bit of pressure , rear and spin away.

We had a lot of advice (little of which was helpful) but for us it came down to 2 things. We had been taking things very gently with him. There had never been a battle of wills. If he didn't want to go somewhere - into the washroom was an issue - we would work around it. And if necessary back him in which he never minded. If he spooked at something we would take it very gently to persuade him it was OK. Classic green horse stuff. The second thing was that he was not scared. He absolutely was not. He just didn't want to do it. (Wasn't scared of the washroom either!)

What we ended up with - and I know this will sound rough to write but I promise you it wasn't. We always load with a dually anyway - if you have to get a horse out on the road for some reason you need the control. Just our practice. So we put a long handling line on the control ring and just let him wait it out. He could come forward all he liked but not go backward at all - and with a long line he can't move your feet even if he does actually get to go back a bit. Gentle pressure pull forward and release. If he stepped forward loads of praise. But if he stood up or went to go backward brace against it as hard as you can. The moment they stop you stop. Don't pull or put any pressure. Let them think. Then gently suggest again. Might you want to come forward? And bore them out of it. No whips, no pressure from behind, no clapping / water / brooms / lunge lines or whatever else. We also opened the front ramp and dropped the front bar to start with - but you have to be fairly sure they won't bolt through and over you. And pinned back the other side partition so there is more space to begin with.

We had done damage with some of the other suggestions we tried - but thankfully not too much. The first few times it took a good 40 mins or so to get him on. Mostly standing and waiting. And we did it every day. And we did it with the washroom too - no more refusing to go or having to go in backward. He wasn't scared. He was stubborn.

We do still have the occasional battle. (He's 7 now) He has learned that we won't force him which he needs. If you are harsh he can panic. And if he is genuinely scared he needs support. But we made it clear that it is easier to do as we ask first time, or at least the second time if he feels the need to make a point. Becuase he will not get to do anything else. We won't give up. He won't get to not go on. He doesn't even get the break of being circled away or re-presented. He can get on at whatever silly angle he has got himself into. We do still leave the front bar down (We put it up before we move!) and the top window open so he isn't coming on into darkness. And if loading in the dark we have the lights on so he can see. No point in making it more difficult than we have to. But he has no choice. No food, no treats, no break, no excuses. (Polo when he is in and the back ramp up) But also no force. Just the suggestion and reistance if he pulls away.

Each horse is unique bless them - but there might be something in our experience you can use!

 

[Landcruiser]

My horse was a bugger to load, it took a long time but patience and perseverance paid off. He used to get to the ramp and plant, if I applied pressure he'd go backwards. He was genuinely afraid, but also in the habit of refusal. I needed to be able to load him alone, so refused all offers of help. Things that helped, in no particular order, resulting in these days he loads 100% of the time :
Long line (I use a 12 ft rope) and rope halter under his padded travelling headcollar.
Pressure release, but also not letting him relax and switch off - keep his head pointing in, don't let him look around.
Reward for each small try. (by relaxing pressure)
I added a lungeline and a roller, threaded it through and round his bum so I had the ability to add pressure at his back end - this was a turning point for us. I called it the domesday weapon
Always give a treat once he's in and safely tied/contained, a carrot or something.
Opening everything up as much as possible, my boy travels without partition. I used to need the front ramp down to get him on, so he could see through.
Body language - keep your position inviting, don't stand directly in front, directly facing, and keep your energy low. In an ideal world he'd go on himself (we are getting very close these days)
Don't take it personally, don't get cross. Walk away and come back.
Stop after a success, leave on a high.

The fact that OPs horse loads easily if another horse is already on is encouraging. I'd guess the other horse offers security, so OP needs to try to offer the same, it sounds like a confidence thing.
Sorry, slightly random thoughts on this!

 

[milliepops]

My horse was a bugger to load, it took a long time but patience and perseverance paid off. He used to get to the ramp and plant, if I applied pressure he'd go backwards. He was genuinely afraid, but also in the habit of refusal. I needed to be able to load him alone, so refused all offers of help. Things that helped, in no particular order, resulting in these days he loads 100% of the time :
Long line (I use a 12 ft rope) and rope halter under his padded travelling headcollar.
Pressure release, but also not letting him relax and switch off - keep his head pointing in, don't let him look around.
Reward for each small try. (by relaxing pressure)
I added a lungeline and a roller, threaded it through and round his bum so I had the ability to add pressure at his back end - this was a turning point for us. I called it the domesday weapon
Always give a treat once he's in and safely tied/contained, a carrot or something.
Opening everything up as much as possible, my boy travels without partition. I used to need the front ramp down to get him on, so he could see through.
Body language - keep your position inviting, don't stand directly in front, directly facing, and keep your energy low. In an ideal world he'd go on himself (we are getting very close these days)
Don't take it personally, don't get cross. Walk away and come back.
Stop after a success, leave on a high.

The fact that OPs horse loads easily if another horse is already on is encouraging. I'd guess the other horse offers security, so OP needs to try to offer the same, it sounds like a confidence thing.
Sorry, slightly random thoughts on this!

agree with this so much.

I also had a very tricky loader who was immensely strong, would escalate if pressured, who was alternately anxious and distracted, and who I had to be able to load alone.

She was too strong in a control headcollar so for better or worse I used a chiffney. Long line so I could hang on and emergency brake if things went sideways. and then asking for complete focus while we were doing loading exercise, noticing if she zoned out or wanted to look elsewhere. Removing us both for breaks away from the lorry if it was taking a while so we both came back refreshed (just a little walk round the yard was enough). Keeping your own emotions in check is such a big part of it. and having no time limit on a practice session, only start when you have the time to spend without checking the clock.

Mine is still sticky if she hasn't been anywhere for a while but never refuses and is a happy camper when we are out and about.

 

[iknowmyvalue]

We had a similar issue with a young Connie. Only ever travelled in lorries and with others. He travelled from the dealer to us in a trailer with no issues - although the dealer did say she wasn't sure he would go on. We spent 3 or 4 months I think with loading practice interspersed with travelling only with a companion. Absolutely no issues if the other horse is on first. Got him travelling alone for one hunt season then out of the blue that summer he totally refused. He would have been just 6 then. Exactly the same as yours, plant at the ramp. Might put 2 feet on. Might not. Put on a bit of pressure , rear and spin away.

We had a lot of advice (little of which was helpful) but for us it came down to 2 things. We had been taking things very gently with him. There had never been a battle of wills. If he didn't want to go somewhere - into the washroom was an issue - we would work around it. And if necessary back him in which he never minded. If he spooked at something we would take it very gently to persuade him it was OK. Classic green horse stuff. The second thing was that he was not scared. He absolutely was not. He just didn't want to do it. (Wasn't scared of the washroom either!)

What we ended up with - and I know this will sound rough to write but I promise you it wasn't. We always load with a dually anyway - if you have to get a horse out on the road for some reason you need the control. Just our practice. So we put a long handling line on the control ring and just let him wait it out. He could come forward all he liked but not go backward at all - and with a long line he can't move your feet even if he does actually get to go back a bit. Gentle pressure pull forward and release. If he stepped forward loads of praise. But if he stood up or went to go backward brace against it as hard as you can. The moment they stop you stop. Don't pull or put any pressure. Let them think. Then gently suggest again. Might you want to come forward? And bore them out of it. No whips, no pressure from behind, no clapping / water / brooms / lunge lines or whatever else. We also opened the front ramp and dropped the front bar to start with - but you have to be fairly sure they won't bolt through and over you. And pinned back the other side partition so there is more space to begin with.

We had done damage with some of the other suggestions we tried - but thankfully not too much. The first few times it took a good 40 mins or so to get him on. Mostly standing and waiting. And we did it every day. And we did it with the washroom too - no more refusing to go or having to go in backward. He wasn't scared. He was stubborn.

We do still have the occasional battle. (He's 7 now) He has learned that we won't force him which he needs. If you are harsh he can panic. And if he is genuinely scared he needs support. But we made it clear that it is easier to do as we ask first time, or at least the second time if he feels the need to make a point. Becuase he will not get to do anything else. We won't give up. He won't get to not go on. He doesn't even get the break of being circled away or re-presented. He can get on at whatever silly angle he has got himself into. We do still leave the front bar down (We put it up before we move!) and the top window open so he isn't coming on into darkness. And if loading in the dark we have the lights on so he can see. No point in making it more difficult than we have to. But he has no choice. No food, no treats, no break, no excuses. (Polo when he is in and the back ramp up) But also no force. Just the suggestion and reistance if he pulls away.

Each horse is unique bless them - but there might be something in our experience you can use!

this all the way. My last horse was an awkward and quirky thing, and you absolutely couldn’t force her. I used to use a chifney and a headcollar, long line on the headcollar, leadrope on the chifney so it was there if I needed it. With a lot of patience, got it down from 1-3hrs to load her to consistently within 15-30mins, and eventually downgraded her to just a dually.

current boy is usually fine, but if he ever gets funny I just attach the leadrope/longline to something fixed inside the trailer, once he realised he can’t actually barge back/round the trailer he’ll walk straight on. I wouldn’t do this with most horses, I know him very well and he understands he can’t pull against fixed pressure so once he feels it he won’t try to (he’s too strong for me to be a fixed pressure, he’d just pull me with him)

 

[frannieuk]

Thanks everyone, plenty of ideas here but all on a similar theme! I’ve ordered a clicker from Amazon and will start practicing!

 

[SusieT]

load every day. feed all meals on the trailer, dont see if as a battle, have a pressure headcollar on so they can't get away if they do dash but your job is to make each step towards the box positive so they never feel they have to rush away

 

[Wheresthehoofpick]

Absolutely agree. Once heard a horse whisperer say make the right thing easy the wrong thing hard. I use a rope halter, not a quick enough release from a dually with my horse. Pressure on. Looking away from him. Long line. Only gets release by moving forwards. No backing up, circling or treat encouragement. (All of which I tried) And repeat. Over and over. He now self loads. Treat on the trailer.

I believe it's very important when you get her on - to reward - and allow her to walk off again calmly and slowly. I make mine learn to wait on the unloading ramp. No barging out. Don't get her in and suddenly close it all up on her. And then do it again and again.

 

[Carrottom]

If you have a companion who won't get upset I would try loading companion then yours , unloading then try putting your on first with companion nearby to load immediately after. Repeating this over a few days without going anywhere and if yours gets better at loading ,gradually taking the companion further away. Hope this makes sense ?

 

[frannieuk]

Thanks everyone - it’s odd because she’s so calm about it all as long as another has gone on first! Helpfully she is food and reward oriented so hopefully the clicker will help and the pressure/release practice. All of your comments about keeping it easy and simple are really helpful reminders!
Hopefully I’ll have a positive update in due course!

 

[tatty_v]

Mine was exactly the same, saint to load in company, nightmare on his own - rearing, tearing out of your hands and galloping off, launching off the ramp etc etc. In the end I had a local lady come, she parked the trailer in the school and we spent 4 hours in a rope halter working on it.

The key for him was as soon as he loaded, praise and give a treat, then unload straight away and repeat. It’s counter intuitive, but most people are so relieved they’ve loaded, it’s a case of shut everything and drive off quickly! So we now load a couple of times at home before leaving, a couple of times on arrival at the venue, a couple of times before leaving and a couple of times getting home. People will look at you like you are mad, but boring repetition makes it less of an issue and gives them confidence. We do all this in a rope halter and long lead rope.

 

[Wheresthehoofpick]

Mine was exactly the same, saint to load in company, nightmare on his own - rearing, tearing out of your hands and galloping off, launching off the ramp etc etc. In the end I had a local lady come, she parked the trailer in the school and we spent 4 hours in a rope halter working on it.

The key for him was as soon as he loaded, praise and give a treat, then unload straight away and repeat. It’s counter intuitive, but most people are so relieved they’ve loaded, it’s a case of shut everything and drive off quickly! So we now load a couple of times at home before leaving, a couple of times on arrival at the venue, a couple of times before leaving and a couple of times getting home. People will look at you like you are mad, but boring repetition makes it less of an issue and gives them confidence. We do all this in a rope halter and long lead rope.[/QUOTE

Totally agree with this.