Advice on my lame mare *LONG*

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Alpha01

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Hello to all,
Where do I start..... (bit of a long one I'm afraid!!)
I have owned a beautiful hanovarian mare for the last 5 years and got as far as getting placed at 1.05m in competitions until she became lame in 2009. Her breeding lines include 'Chicago', 'Cor de la Bryere' and 'Daytona' (Demon Strator) so very well bred.
I have had several vets opinions and treatments which have all taken up a lot of time and effort and with no success.
The first vet said that it was a high suspensory ligament in both front legs, then when she was reassessed he said it was novicular syndrome and gave treatment according to that. I was then told to bring her back to work and within 3 months she became severly lame. I then involved another vet, he said that she had damaged collateral ligaments and had a little bit of arthritis and I was advised to turn her out for a year and to even put her into foal.
(I didn't put her into foal as I didnt think it was right at the time.)
She was then reassessed by the second vet again 4 months later and he told me that I should put her down in the autumn time as she had DJD.
I got yet another vet involved to confirm that PTS was the best thing for her and he said that she could have done her deep flexing ligament (or something like that!) and that unless he operated on her that he wouldn't know for definite.
By this time my insurance claim had run out and I'm now left with a horse who is lame permenantly but I don't want to PTS if there is a chance for her to continue a non ridden life or become a brood mare for someone.
I'm really at a loss at what to do and running out of time. She really is a lovely mare and deserves the best in life.

Any advice or suggestions about who I could contact about rehoming her would be great.

Thanks in advance.
 
If the mare is lame then is it really fair to consider rehoming her as broodmare (weight of a baby would put extra strain on her joints/soft tissue, possibly hurting more)? Unless you keep her yourself or loan her to someone you trust, there is always the risk people will try to ride her/bute her and work her.

I can understand your frustration because you've had 3 different diagnoses but ATEOTD your horse is lame enough for 2 vets to have suggested you PTS.

Is she sound after a bute trial? Have you had x-rays, scans or anything else that showed up the problems the vet said she had?

You said she became severely lame - is this still the case?
 
hi i just wondered if she has actually broken her navicular bone (had a mare years ago which sounded like yours ) but i would have thought they would have picked that up on the xrays.

I am sure someone would like her as a broodmare (if she can come sound enough) - would you like to keep the good breeding lines going and have a foal off her? I would never PTS unless the animal was in pain.

could she be a surrogate mom?
 
Dancing Queen said:
hi i just wondered if she has actually broken her navicular bone (had a mare years ago which sounded like yours ) but i would have thought they would have picked that up on the xrays.

I am sure someone would like her as a broodmare (if she can come sound enough) - would you like to keep the good breeding lines going and have a foal off her? I would never PTS unless the animal was in pain.

could she be a surrogate mom?
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I would love a foal from her but I don't have the time or experience to do so but wouldn't mind to give someone else the option providing it is the right place for her.
 
i would ask for a full body bone scan. not cheap but will pick up any hot spots. picked up all of my tb's problems! im amazed that your vets have recomended PTS after such little investigation! id be travelling to a reputable vet practice for a full work up! how have they managed to spend all your claim money??
 
china said:
i would ask for a full body bone scan. not cheap but will pick up any hot spots. picked up all of my tb's problems! im amazed that your vets have recomended PTS after such little investigation! id be travelling to a reputable vet practice for a full work up! how have they managed to spend all your claim money??
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Unfortunatly the last 2 vet are very reputables one. It was the first one who managed to spend so much money and wasted time trying different methods and not listening to me when I was pushing for MRI at the time.. when I got the second vet out so much money was already spent through insurance, by the time I got the 3rd one time was almost run out.. but now I have learnt and if there is a next time situation, I will go for MRI.
 
Alpha01 said:
Unfortunatly the last 2 vet are very reputables one. It was the first one who managed to spend so much money and wasted time trying different methods and not listening to me when I was pushing for MRI at the time.. when I got the second vet out so much money was already spent through insurance, by the time I got the 3rd one time was almost run out.. but now I have learnt and if there is a next time situation, I will go for MRI.
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if you find out if your insurance has added any exclusions you may still be able to claim for stuff. I was able to make three seperate claims for my boy at the same time, enabling 5k on each individual condition. you would just have to pay excess for each conditon claimed for. so for example, after a bone scan, mine was found to have Kissing spines, bone spavins (djd) in both hocks and navicular. I could claim for all three and have 5k on each but have to pay the 130 excess on each. If nothing has been excluded specifally, you still have money to claim on.
 
china said:
if you find out if your insurance has added any exclusions you may still be able to claim for stuff. I was able to make three seperate claims for my boy at the same time, enabling 5k on each individual condition. you would just have to pay excess for each conditon claimed for. so for example, after a bone scan, mine was found to have Kissing spines, bone spavins (djd) in both hocks and navicular. I could claim for all three and have 5k on each but have to pay the 130 excess on each. If nothing has been excluded specifally, you still have money to claim on.
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But... insurance co could claim it was a pre-existing condition since the mare has been lame for 3 years. If/when OP gets a definitive diagnosis, the insurer would probably just say that is the reason she has been lame for so long and refuse to pay.
 
Alpha01 said:
read it thank you but what about arthritis then? and it seems that you can only contact them by email, no tel number is giving on their website...why not? If it is a business....
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Yes, it is a genuine place.

They have had issues with email in the past, perhaps why someone hasn't got a reply?

I do know that Nic often spends time speaking to people on the phone, but I think initial contact is via email.

Other than email - a post on the UKNHCP forum will get her attention.

Regarding your mare - I really urge you to contact Nic - she can't wave a magic wand, but IMO she is your best chance at this point.

Correcting the balance of your mare's feet will sort her tendons and ligaments. Barefoot can't cure arthritis, but it will certainly ease it.
 
Nakipa said:
I have emailed rockley on six different occasions and never had a reply.
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And when you complained about this in July, myself and others explained they'd had an email problem and I also provided you with an alternative way to contact her......
 
is she a big mare? if the vets agree she's sound enough to be put in foal you could consider using her for embryo transfer? i know http://www.beaufortembryotransfer.com/ and looking for big mares (i have someone there i could put you in contact with if you like).

If she's not going to be sound enough to put her in foal theres no shame in having her PTS far better imo than risking someone taking her and possibly trying to ride her or something
 
Oberon said:
Correcting the balance of your mare's feet will sort her tendons and ligaments. Barefoot can't cure arthritis, but it will certainly ease it.
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Funnily enough I almost posted earlier to ask what the mare's feet were like as if they're unbalanced/poorly shod, that won't be helping or could even be causing the problems she's having.
 
chestnut cob said:
Funnily enough I almost posted earlier to ask what the mare's feet were like as if they're unbalanced/poorly shod, that won't be helping or could even be causing the problems she's having.
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I'll fall off my chair if it isn't her feet. Two years....poor owner must be tearing her hair out!
 
If she were mine, I'd turn her away until at least spring (if she's not suffering) then trot her up again and see if she's any better/worse, then make a decision from there.
I would never put a horse with severe lameness in foal, or loan her as a broodmare for a few welfare and other reasons;
1. You will reproduce her - so will have an unsound foal
2. Carrying a foal will put additional strain on her body which she can ill afford
3. If her lameness gets worse whilst pregnant, you will struggle to give her sufficient medication to keep her comfortable without adversely affecting the foal
4. The market is awash with good horses going cheaply at the moment - it will cost you more to breed her than you will gain from a foal.
In my honest opinion, I think you have three choices;
1. Carry out further diagnostic tests
2. Rest her and see if she improves
3. PTS.
Good luck with your decision - never easy.
S :D
 
Many people have successfully managed to initiate contact with Nic. I'm sure you possess the skills to do so also.
 
i wouldnt put a lame mare in foal. esp as there are so many sound broodmares around
and it may be inherited lameness which would mean u would poss breed a foal which would become lame young in life
think carefully about giving her away or loaning her there r some sly people around
i have a small rescue which concentrates on health issues. and lameness is something i get a lot of horses in with and they are hard to diagnoss properly
if poss could u not turn her out as companion for a year.
keep a diary of when she is lame and what weather is like.
this would then let u know if it was arthritis.
and ob if she is more lame in wet/cold i personally would put her down to prevent her living a life of pain.
i dont agree with longterm bute use. all u doing is preventing pain the injury/condition is still there and being made worse as all u doing is stopping the horse knowing it is doing damage.
pm me if u want to
 
Sounds like a nightmare OP, echo others advice not to consider putting her infoal, if she is lame as she is I can't imagine that extra weight would do her any favours at all.

I would also urge you to contact Nic, I'll join Oberon in falling clean off my chair if it isn't her feet!


Alpha01 said:
If they care about horses should they not care about people too? I know they might be busy looking after horses etc but....? This is a business it isn't it after all?
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I have emailed Nic in the past, but because I had got myself so wound up and worried about my mares feet I just wound up waffling in the email! Nic didn't reply as I didn't actually say what I was contacting her for and what I was after. I'd drop her another email (or post on http://uknhcp.myfastforum.org/forum2.php as already suggested) and make your email clear in what info/help/whatever you are after. She is beyond busy atm so don't be expecting an instant response, but I have never had a email ignored (excluding when it was my own silly fault!).
 
I'm right with Oberon and The Pony - I would start with the feet.

You don't have to go the whole hog and take the shoes off. If you can find a farrier with good knowledge of foot function and balance, you could try the Natural Balance shoeing route. NB shoes have worked very well for my 26yo TBx for the last 14 years.
 
equinim said:
i wouldnt put a lame mare in foal. esp as there are so many sound broodmares around
and it may be inherited lameness which would mean u would poss breed a foal which would become lame young in life
think carefully about giving her away or loaning her there r some sly people around
i have a small rescue which concentrates on health issues. and lameness is something i get a lot of horses in with and they are hard to diagnoss properly
if poss could u not turn her out as companion for a year.
keep a diary of when she is lame and what weather is like.
this would then let u know if it was arthritis.
and ob if she is more lame in wet/cold i personally would put her down to prevent her living a life of pain.
i dont agree with longterm bute use. all u doing is preventing pain the injury/condition is still there and being made worse as all u doing is stopping the horse knowing it is doing damage.
pm me if u want to
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Yes you are right, the best option for me at this time is to turn her out as a companion for 6 months but where? and to whom?
 
I'm usually a "got to be the feet" person too. But having recently battled with 2 years of lameness with one of my horses, convinced it was the feet well nerve blocks did indicate it was the feet so never investigated higher really to be finally diagnosed with Check ligiment damage just a few weeks ago might be something to consider.
 
I have to agree with Oberon about Rockley, and then agree with Shils about turning her away (unshod & trimmed) for the winter and see how she is in the spring.
 
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