Advice on payment of livery

Wimbles

Wimbles

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Hi all, just asking for a bit of advice please.

Due to circumstances beyond my control, I now have six horses on livery so you can imagine the bill every month is substantial!

I pay a month in advance and whichever yard I have been I always pride myself in being a good payer.

Problem is that the YM is demanding cash, which would be fine but I work full time in the week so am only there at the crack of dawn and in the evening and YM is there in the day and not at weekends.

I have been asked to put the money (about £600) through a slot in a shed door which I am just not happy about as if it goes missing then who is to say that I've put it there!!! Plus I can only get £250 out at a cash point at any one time so I have to go out of my way to the cash point everyday for three days...........I'm getting text messages that I owe the rent and quite frankly I'm so stressed out by it that it's starting to really make me feel poorly.

Some people at the yard pay into the bank account but I can't understand why I can't.

Can anyone offer me a bit of advice before I have some sort of breakdown? Life's hard enough at the moment and this is just finishing me off :(
 
I would just explain to the YO that it is a great sum of money to leave in a shed, plus there are difficulties in getting that sort of cash out. If they are reasonable they should understand!
Maybe they are avoiding BACS for tax purposes? My old YO did that and it really peeved me - I would much rather just transfer it.

We had the option of posting our rent in our hay/shavings/etc request box, but I would always give it to YO as I couldn't afford for any to be misplaced! I then found out he did bank transfers which made life a lot easier.
 
That sounds far from ideal. I take it, having 6, that you don't really want to be moving yards? I would have another chat to the YO and explain what you have said here and ask out right why others can pay in to the bank but you can't. If they really will not let you do anything other than cash how about staggering your payments through the month so you can do each payment in one trip to the cash machine?
 
I agree with you - I wouldn't want to put that amount of money in a shed! I would suggest offering to pay £250 in cash so the owner has some readies and the rest by chq/in to their bank account. We always used to pay our livery bill
by chq but now have set up a standing order. I can only think they want it all in cash for a tax fiddle!
 
I don't see why you can't pay by direct debit either. Sounds suspicious. Tell the YO that you are not happy leaving that much cash unattended. Tell them that if they want paying in cash they'd will need to pop over at the weekend and collect it in person (and that you would prefer a receipt). Tell them that you would really prefer a direct debit.

You will be calling their bluff a bit, but with that much of money coming from you a month the YO won't want to lose you. You'd be a big gap in their income and tKe some replacing, so ought to be able to negotiate a bit.
 
take a half day holiday on a weekday and go and sit down with them and sort it out, explain it as you have done here - face to face is so much easier. Offer to BACS it weekly if they don't want lump sums showing up in their account

Finding a livery for six wouldn't be at all easy so its worth the time taken to reach a sensible solution
 
Sounds to me as though YO doesn't want to declare it all for tax purposes. Not your problem - I would be saying you cannot manage to do it, others don't and if they insist you might think of looking for livery elsewhere. Six horses is a lot to lose and gives you quite a bit of bargaining power.
 
Having been on the recieving end of "you didnt pay", "i don't remember you giving cash"
I will only pay via SO now so that i am covered too.

Quick direct chat with YO will sort it all im sure
 
I've just been in touch with the YM and explained (for the zillionth time) the reasons why I don't want to do payment this way but there is just no reasoning. I'm literally shaking 'cause I'm so stressed. YM says that they need the cash to pay the farmer that delivers hay etc rather than getting it from yard owner. They have suggested that I pay weekly as it won't be so much to put through the shed door (I'm sorry but £180 is still too much for me to risk). I just can't see a way forward but finding somewhere for 6 horses isn't easy!
 
I would also push for BACS. Sounds like a tax fiddle. If nothing else, you are constantly carrying large sums of cash around with you. Not the safest of situations.
 
I have on occasion asked to pay by an alternative to cash even when most people paid cash as I didn't want to carry it around. I live in London and go to the yard by public transport so emphasised the safety aspect and said I didn't feel comfortable carrying around such large amounts.

If they will only take cash, as others have said insist on it being face to face and ask for a receipt for your records. A bit old school but I would also offer to pay by cheque, a standing order will seem much more convenient than having to go the bank to pay it in.
 
Wimbles said:
Unfortunately WelshD I did just that on my half day from work with no progress. I feel like a complete second class citizen at the yard.
Click to expand...

Oh no :(

In that case I think I would be asking them to go out of their way to meet you then, Assuming (and it is an assumption) that you aren't a million miles from the yard I would be suggesting they come to your house one evening. For £600 once a month surely they must be able to drag themselves to you. Hate it when people wont budge on an unreasonable decision grrr!
 
What a shame. I would say you need to hand it over personally. You're not asking anything unreasonable. Does nobody live at the yard that you could leave it with? I can understand their arguement for liking having cash, when we had liveries that paid cash it was handy to have for farriers/hay deliveries but I'd never have put liveries off if they preferred bank transfers.

Sounds like you could do with your own little yard, I'd keep looking for somewhere.
 
A compromise would be to ask them to meet you at the bank or cashpoint on a regular basis. Once they have to put in that kind of effort they might think again.
But don't stress - worst case scenario is they get funny with you for a while. Pay by cheque and then sit tight, they can't take any action so long as you are paid up by one means or another, and a cheque is payment. They are hardly going to physically turf your horses off the yard, even if they give you notice - call their bluff, and then suggest if they need that kind of cash they insist on their other clients providing it.
Face them out - if this is the YM, what does the YO say?
 
I haven't got the bank details so can't do a standing order and I have no way of getting in touch with the yard owner as I agree that he would be the person to talk to but he has nothing to do with the yard. Sorry if every reply is sounding negative, I just feel like it's going to end up in disaster whatever I do.
 
This sounds decidely fishy, if the YO is happy with you paying by S/O or BACs or DD the YM needs to take this up with the YO not you. Stick to your guns or find a new yard! You're a paying customer, not a second class citizen. I'm all for livery being a bit of a two way street to make lives easier for all concerend, but this is going too far I feel.
 
Sounds like YM is not putting your payment through the books if she is demanding cash. What is the situation on your yard? Does YM rent/lease the yard from YM or something? Money goes directly to YM and not YO? Urgh I can't stand people paying cash, all of my clients pay via email bank transfer and it's great as we both get receipts of payment and money goes directly into farm bank account.
 
My landlords like the rent in cash as we don't have any cash points nearby - which means I have to find one twice between the 26th and the 4th, it is a bind and it is sometimes late (when the car broke!) so I do feel for you!

If they need the cash and others pay by direct debit why can't they have everyone pay say a tenner per horse and the rest by direct transfer rather than it all coming from you? Also if they want the cash they should make themselves available to receive it from you. I would also question with YO?
 
I would not even entertain handing that kind of cash to someone through posting it anywhere....even their own letterbox. If you do cash, it needs to be handed over in person.

Do you know who provides the hay? If you do, call them, don't tell them who you are, just ask if they can be paid in advance by bank transfer. If they answer yes, which they most likely will because they won't turn away business...go back to your YM and damn well tell her that you have her number. Tell her that the farmer will accept bank transfers, so just say, "So, I've put the money in your account as usual and you can pay for the hay the same way".

She's trying to dodge tax and she's doing it with you because you are one client with multiple horses.

Also, if she's willing to cut corners like that, I think I would be quietly keeping my eyes open for a new yard as well. It's hard getting places for 6 horses, but if you make enquiries (even get someone else to do it for you to remain anonymous) and most yards would kill to have 6 horses with one person. You'd probably get a call sooner or later to say that one of the yards has made room for you.

I just don't know if I could truly trust someone that was capable of fiddling the books.
 
And yes....as Ester says, discuss directly with YO....they need to know if they are being swindled out of something or potentially about to lose a valuable client.
 
While there's nothing you can do if they insist on cash, it is reasonable to expect it to be handed over securely and expect a receipt.

I would focus on these initially, if they are not declaring it that may make them reconsider.
 
If you must pay by cash, the yard owner must pre arrange a time to meet you.
Get yourself a rent book and request they initial that to acknowledge receipt.
Do you have a contract, and if so what does it state about payment?
 
I would ignore their requests for cash and just leave a cheque. I would never put that amount of cash in a shed - you need to get a receipt as proof of payment for a start. Just say that it's impossible to get that amount of cash out and you are not going to do it. I can't see why any reasonable yard owner wouldn't understand this.
 
What a rubbish situation. I agree they are trying to avoid paying tax on your money. A yard I was on a long tine ago did the same. It was a large yard with about 50+ stables and payment was by cash only, pushed under the yard office door if nobody was around! I asked numerous times to pay via bank transfer as I don't carry cash there were no cash machines nearby and I would constantly forget to pay. I was told no, cash in hand only.
 
My first thought was 'Why not a cheque then ?'

Having been on the receiving end of 'I put cash in there' I have only ever paid by cash then obtained a receipt at the same time. It's foolish to do otherwise as your're leavning yourself open to all sorts of problems. I want a full papertrail for proof of payment.

If a YO won't give you SO details, then I would only pay by cheque if you don't see them.
 
Seeing as they are continuing to be unreasonable I would stop even attempting to be helpful. Write a cheque, pop it where ever you are supposed to leave payment and then forget about it.
 
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