Advice on weight (or lack of)

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countrybumpkin85

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I was heavily pregnant/giving birth in Dec but had friends helpping out and looking after / feeding the horses for me. By the time I had stupidly fallen down the stairs and could visit them they all looked ok (considering it was a bad winter).
After I'm given birth I was desperate to get back to them, brought in my mare and found this under her h/w rug. I cried.

She's around 20ish, but looked stunning over the summer while in regular work, hacking 3 hours 2 times a week, schooling 3-4 times and the rest either a day off or a short hack. She had some extra hard feed over the summer but nothing much, was more of a treat after work. As winter came and it go colder and the grass got less this was upped to larger feeds and build up cubes, sugar beet, chaff extra, oil etc.

After finding how much she'd lost I brought her up to 3 feed a day, more stabled nights and as much hay as I could stuff in her.

She is in all other ways healthy, very alert, happy and good coat with a lovely shine (other yard people comment on her shinny coat :D )
Teeth have been done, but we're calling a dentist out again Friday (earliest app) as I'm not convinced about them due to her weight.

We got a nutitionist involved also, she was changed over to 2kg dry weight of Calm and Condition (A&P), with pink powder as on tub. I also mix some chaff in and split over 3 feeds (2 if I'm working), She has constant hay supply and is now in as her rugs were rubbing her raw from hanging off her after losing weight, and where she rolled making them rub even more. (She's a big roller!) so the sore on her withers would heal, then open up again as soon as she gave it a good rub in the field.
She's lunged or walked out daily for excersie but I can't rider her as although her winter saddle is well clear of the rug sore, the numna ends up rubbing it! With no topline I'm not happy ridding her without a numna under her saddle.

So here are my questions:

Is she lacking mainly muscle now or is there still alot of fat areas missing?

Is there anything extra I can add in (I'm not changing her feed again as its working slowly) to help weight gain?

For the muscle thats lacking, what excersises are best to build it up? I've been doing lots of pole/raised pole work so far.

Please don't say "feed her / you're neglecting her / etc etc" I've been terrified of asking for forum help as although the vets, dentist etc. know I've been linning their pockets trying to get her sorted, I know many will assume I'm not looking after her. I was convinced I could ask without being slated.....please prove that member right!

Oh and she's fully wormed to date as are the whole yard.


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Have you had a vet check her - run blood tests? can the vet who's seen her in person not advise you on sensible exercise to build her up very gently.

If she's been on three good feeds a day, ad lib hay and no worm/ teeth issues for 2/3 months now I'd expect her to look quite a lot better by now.

Certainly no riding until she looks a lot better - a numnah rubbing is the least of your worries, I can't imagine a saddle would fit with that amount of muscle wastage over her back

Swap hay for haylage (more calories), I would consider adding to feed, linseed, oil, sugarbeet etc. for more going through her system. Did the nutritionalist see her in person.
 
She's poor and I would say you need to take it really quite slowly with her. When you say pole work what do you mean? I wouldn't be doing anything except regular feed, ad lib haylage if she is in over night and walking her in hand. the new grass will help her pick up.

Why is she clipped?

I wouldn't be doing any pole work and you say you have been doing lots. If you have been lunging her then I would stop for now.
 
Does she have any pain ? As in arthritis or anything like that , it can make it very difficult to get wieght on them.
I would not consider riding a horse in that condition I might gently long rien to keep the horse moving if she had any other issues that meanlt she needed to be kept moving.
 
you are not alone, my 22 year old decided she didnt like the hay or her feed and would only eat a bit of haylage....i was pulling my hair out as i tried lots of different feeds to tempt her and she didnt want to know. shes wormed, teeth done etc .. she lost loads of weight and is only now putting it on since she has been in the new field which has some grass...she has also decided to eat her feeds as well now......maybe yours just needs some fresh grass, its amazing how quickly mine has picked up....i have continued to hack mine gently about 4 times a week and i think that helped with her topline. can yours go out without a rug on during the day when the sun is out? if you cant ride her could you lead her out from another horse to give her a bit more excercise ? you are very brave to put photos on here and i hope you only get positive feedback...:D
 
She looks like she needs a lot of weight on her back end,I winced at the first pic but the second doesn't look too bad but she definatly needs more weight. I don't think I would be working her at all
 
What does the vet say? She looks almost gaunt IMO, hugely underweight. The photo of her quarters made me gasp. I'm sorry :(

I wouldn't be working her at all. I'd keep her as warm as possible, lots of hay/ haylage and get the vet and ask them...
 
I was desperate to get back to them, brought in my mare and found this under her h/w rug. I cried.
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I'd have cried too. What have the people who were meant to be looking after her said? They have really let you and your mare down.

Anyway. If the diet the nutritionist has given is working, stick to it.

She is missing both muscle and fat.

I think that the key here is to keep going. Try not to get disheartened and photograph/weight-tape her every week so that you can keep an eye on her progress.
 
I can't comment on the photos, as I'm on my phone and can't see clearly enough.
You say the weight is going back on, which is encouraging.
With my older horse that could drop his weight quickly I fed a cup of oil in his feed.
I also fed a product called equijewel, which is vey high in calories- you only need a cupful. I'm in Australia, so not sure if you can get it where you are, but is there something simular to it you can add in?
If your horse can tolerate it, barley is good for adding weight.
I wouldn't be riding a horse that was very thin, that seems counter productive ( at best ) to me. If you think she can cope with gentle exercise the most I'd do is walk her out or long rein her out
Good luck with her.
Kx
 
Poor mare, sorry you have been let down like this! Hopefully she'll start picking up naturally as the grass comes through, everything being late growing this year doesn't help!

If she usually does well in the summer and on good grass I would be tempted to add some soaked grass nuts and micronised linseed to her feed, I think that could make a real difference.

good luck xx
 
More photos would help - of all of her side on. Hindquarters look particularly poor, has she always tended to be light behind? Has she got any physical problems? Sacroiliac, Spavins, hind leg stiffness at all?

How long has she been on ad lib hay and calm and condition?

I would definitely get teeth checked again and in the meantime feed soaked grass nuts alongside her nightly Haynet to ensure she is getting enough forage.

Would also second the suggestion of having a Cushings test done as well.

If you don't want to change the base feed, then adding a high oil supplement such as micronised linseed, equijewel or outshine will provide lots of calories in a dense form.
 
Ive just picked one up that looks very similar. It's been a long winter, and sadly other people don't always do them as well as you would yourself.

For what it's worth, this would be my plan:
Teeth?
Bloods
Worm count
Nutritionist visit ( looks like you've already done that!)
Once weight suitable, I'd start in hand work - just walking out. But i should think that's 4 weeks away. I would get physio in before introducing pole exercises, if she's looking that poor (as "mine" is) she may well have started propping herself up through her front end, so you may be trying to improve something that she is physically incapable of doing for the moment?
Good luck! :)
Eta - fast fibre does a good job on all of mine, along with calm and condition, and a probiotic type if required
 
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Ditto on the blood test. Assuming it came back clear....

I would be swapping the Pink Powder for a proper mineral supplement/balancer like Pro Balance plus a good probiotic such as Protexin Gut Balancer. I would start the probiotics with either Protexin Quick Fix or Recover Aid. Perhaps add some extra calories from micronised linseed.

Is it possible to gently long rein her instead of lunging, if you can't turn out? If she were mine, I would not want her on a circle at all until she has more strength back. As an older horse, I would want to keep her moving to minimise stiffness, but not "working".

There is both muscle and fat that she needs to regain. Allow her the same amount of time to gain the weight back as it took her to loose it.
 
Well, she's definitely poor no doubt about it, I would have cried too. What exactly was her management? Was she out at grass? My Thoroughbred mare is 22 (retired) and looks nothing like this. Of course you have to rule out any illnesses/teeth problems, but my mare has lived out 24/7 (access to barn but never bothers), not rugged has a lovely winter coat - rugs are a curse if no-one checks under them. Basically she has access to 5 acres sheep grazing but this was supplemented with ad-lib haylage at the very least. She sometimes gets a feed of unmollased beet with a forage balancer and she has wintered extremely well. If your mare has no underlying problems then she is simply undernourished and that means lack of food so it seems she's not been getting her share. I'd be talking with your friends because she shouldn't be looking this way if she is healthy. Would agree not to work her at this stage as she needs the calories for a healthy weight not work. As long as there are no underlying issues I would continue with what your nutritionist advises and just concentrate on getting her back to a reasonable weight. It won't happen overnight, good luck with her and maybe post some regular updates on her progress.

Sorry if I've repeated some stuff that others have posted - was typing and didn't see it.
 
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splashgirl45 said:
you are not alone, my 22 year old decided she didnt like the hay or her feed and would only eat a bit of haylage....i was pulling my hair out as i tried lots of different feeds to tempt her and she didnt want to know. shes wormed, teeth done etc .. she lost loads of weight and is only now putting it on since she has been in the new field which has some grass...she has also decided to eat her feeds as well now......maybe yours just needs some fresh grass, its amazing how quickly mine has picked up....i have continued to hack mine gently about 4 times a week and i think that helped with her topline. can yours go out without a rug on during the day when the sun is out? if you cant ride her could you lead her out from another horse to give her a bit more excercise ? you are very brave to put photos on here and i hope you only get positive feedback...:D
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Brave...or stupid. Probably should have kept it between the vet/dentist/nutritionist and myself!

When I say lunging and pole work...I took her out for about 10 minutes today to loosen up, then went over the poles 3 times and then in.
She's been tested for several things, I've lost track if I'm honest but I know cusings was one of them. Poo counts etc done too.
She was on haylage, but started to refuse it/just snub it and leave it. I turn her out while I muck out/if its sunny and she walks to and from the field without a head collar. She made a bee line for someone elses hay on day! So I found out where it came from and bough 6 bales (all I could fit in my car) and she's been wolfing that down. Thats why she's on hay not haylage, she'd been eating haylage all winter.

She was clipped back in Nov/Dec for hunting when I was back riding or the girl who was looking after/riding her, but obviously she never went as her weight plumitted. I think I have mistakenly used the word "work" here....its more like keeping her lose and trying to prevent any muscle from wasting away as well.

I didn't discuss excersie with the vet, but they're back tomorrow. Also in the last week she's started to drop some food so the dentist agrees he needs to come out sooner than planned as she may have developed a problem since the last visit considering her age.

I'm more on a maintenance plan until they find the problem between them. Although she has started to put on, I'd like to find the cause still incase we have a problem again next winter, and so it can be resolved.

Thank you those who gave useful commenst and didn't make me feel even more like s*** than I already do that nothing I'm doing is helpping her.
 
Faracat said:
I'd have cried too. What have the people who were meant to be looking after her said? They have really let you and your mare down.

Anyway. If the diet the nutritionist has given is working, stick to it.

She is missing both muscle and fat.

I think that the key here is to keep going. Try not to get disheartened and photograph/weight-tape her every week so that you can keep an eye on her progress.
Click to expand...

TBH I've not approached the subject. I don't like to fall out with people and I should have dragged my self to keep tabs on them or wondered sooner why they hadn't texted/called to say the food I'd bought up for ther period was getting low. Should have been pretty much gone but wasn't.

My anatomy is very poor, so I'm not sure which areas I should be looking for fat coming in and which areas to not worry about so much as they're muscle! I have been photographing, the nutirionist said that as I was getting down and convinced she wasn't improving, but she is! Thats cheered me up a bit.
 
I think you need to feed her boiled feeds personally and a strong wormer.
Boiled barley, oats etc. baileys no.1 put weight on the old pony at the yard and he was skin and bones. And lots of oil. :)

She is very poor - i'd be rugging up so she is very warm, almost to point of sweating. Lots of straw bedding so she dosen't loose any extra calories - she can't afford to :(

Your doing the right things which is great, and id imagine she will bloom once the grass comes in as well :)
You could turn her out for a few hours a day so she dosen't get stiff without any work :)
 
Lolo said:
What does the vet say? She looks almost gaunt IMO, hugely underweight. The photo of her quarters made me gasp. I'm sorry :(

I wouldn't be working her at all. I'd keep her as warm as possible, lots of hay/ haylage and get the vet and ask them...
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^^^^this

I wouldnt work her. Give her ad lib hay and a conditioning feed 4 times a day.
 
If she is dropping food then I would definitely start introducing soaked grass nuts as a hay replacer whilst you are waiting for a dentist's appointment.
 
TGM said:
More photos would help - of all of her side on. Hindquarters look particularly poor, has she always tended to be light behind? Has she got any physical problems? Sacroiliac, Spavins, hind leg stiffness at all?

How long has she been on ad lib hay and calm and condition?

I would definitely get teeth checked again and in the meantime feed soaked grass nuts alongside her nightly Haynet to ensure she is getting enough forage.

Would also second the suggestion of having a Cushings test done as well.

If you don't want to change the base feed, then adding a high oil supplement such as micronised linseed, equijewel or outshine will provide lots of calories in a dense form.
Click to expand...

She can get a bit stiff in her backs if its cold, but not noticed it since the snow. We were several foot under for over a week and she was struggling then. Thought she'd never be ridden again, but she picked up really well as it got warmer and she's been chasing the others round the field and picking on the new kids (youngsters) like her normal "i'm in charge" self. she's head mare in the herd :D

Tests were all neg so far.

I stopped putting oil in as thought the C&C had high levels. She's been on C&C fully (after introducing it gradually) 3 weeks now. Its the only feed routine thats shown any difference since I started trying to get her sorted in January. D&H didn't touch her, Baileys No.4 sent her loopy, sugerbeet was good but I have stopped that as its in the C&C...well quickbeet in there I think!
 
TGM said:
If she is dropping food then I would definitely start introducing soaked grass nuts as a hay replacer whilst you are waiting for a dentist's appointment.
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Me too , you could mix with some speedibeet sometimes oldies love that.
 
You're brave enough to take a risk to try and help your mare by posting the pics. I admire that, I really do.

I wouldn't worry about work at the moment, if she is out and about she should be moving enough naturally to avoid stiffening. You could pop the hay in piles so she can walk about eating it. If she is sharing her field with others, check to make sure they aren't stopping her eating... My lad suffered an awful winter before I got him due to this. I'd be wanting to get lots of calories in to boost the plumpness; I know this is really radical and I'll be shouted at but maybe this is a time to consider straights? Possibly even...oats? Gasp! Pls check with your nutritionist as I've worried myself with this crazy talk!

Wouldn't be thinking about riding til there is a good covering on her and any sores have healed. When she has regained some condition you will find the topline comes back gradually with work. You are prob in for a long haul though, her weight has dipped drastically. Good luck to you both.
 
If you do a google images search for horse body condition score, you will find charts with images that will show you how to condition score her now and once she's put weight on.
 
countrybumpkin85 said:
I stopped putting oil in as thought the C&C had high levels. She's been on C&C fully (after introducing it gradually) 3 weeks now. Its the only feed routine thats shown any difference since I started trying to get her sorted in January. D&H didn't touch her, Baileys No.4 sent her loopy, sugerbeet was good but I have stopped that as its in the C&C...well quickbeet in there I think!
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Mine is on c&c, boiled oats, carron oil (in pm) linseed oil (am feed) 12% mix and equijewel and is starting to look a lot better than he did a month ago, although he wasnt as poor as your girl.
He also gets a probiotic and gets ad lib hay.

I think you need to bulk her feed, loads of oil and boiled feeds imo :)
 
GlamourPuss86 said:
I have to say, if you've had someone else feeding her, have they not checked her?! And I hate to say it but are you SURE she was being fed what you'd told them?
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Not a word was said.....I'll never be trusting anyone again. Even if I'm dying half dead I'll find a way to do it myself.
She was out 24/7 in a h/w, with plenty of grass (my 3 had a large field all to themselves so didn't get churned up). Wasn't the BEST grass....it was typical winter grass. Unlike the unlucky others on mud with haylage bales only. Mine had grass AND haylage.
I don't want to cause arguments, I just want to learn never to trust anyone but me, and get her sorted.
 
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