Advice on weight (or lack of)

only_me said:
Mine is on c&c, boiled oats, carron oil (in pm) linseed oil (am feed) 12% mix and equijewel and is starting to look a lot better than he did a month ago, although he wasnt as poor as your girl.
He also gets a probiotic and gets ad lib hay.

I think you need to bulk her feed, loads of oil and boiled feeds imo :)
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Oats arn't a good idea....she got into the big barn and ate some, she went mental! Wound all the others up, started barging around etc. Bit like Baileys No4!
 
Calm and condition is not particularly high in oil (only 5% oil) so an oil rich supplement would definitely be a good idea, if you do not want to change the base feed.

I'd also want the vet to investigate her hindquarters thoroughly to see if there is a physical reason why her back end is so poor, particularly if you say she has shown signs of stiffness.
 
SadKen said:
You're brave enough to take a risk to try and help your mare by posting the pics. I admire that, I really do.

I wouldn't worry about work at the moment, if she is out and about she should be moving enough naturally to avoid stiffening. You could pop the hay in piles so she can walk about eating it. If she is sharing her field with others, check to make sure they aren't stopping her eating... My lad suffered an awful winter before I got him due to this. I'd be wanting to get lots of calories in to boost the plumpness; I know this is really radical and I'll be shouted at but maybe this is a time to consider straights? Possibly even...oats? Gasp! Pls check with your nutritionist as I've worried myself with this crazy talk!

Wouldn't be thinking about riding til there is a good covering on her and any sores have healed. When she has regained some condition you will find the topline comes back gradually with work. You are prob in for a long haul though, her weight has dipped drastically. Good luck to you both.
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I wouldn't say the others pick on her....when she comes in they scatter (other than a late gelded gelding, who when she's in season I'm taking my life into my own hands trying to seperate them in the field!) she generally gets turned out and trots/canters down the field and gives all those in her path a nip or a kick LOL. She even caught my youngster while rolling because he went to sniff her. No one messes with her...at least not more than once! She's lovely really....honest.
 
If you have access to plenty of grass, this will be the number one pick me up for a horse. If you think she might be having issues with the eating (which could still be the route of all the issues) then look to feed (in addition - in a trug with the nightly net) something like D&H just grass, or soaked grass nuts. Feed linseed, or even good old sunflower oil.

Nothing wrong with taking her out for an inhand stroll to pick at lush grass, but arguably should be done before or after maximum turnout as this will provide plenty of movement for her.
 
When you say she is having 2 kg of C&C, do you mean per feed? Or over the entire days? If the latter that is not a lot for a horse needing condition.

I would opt for a high calorie chaff, like Alfa A, or spillers conditioning fibre. Micronised linseed (about 3 cups a day), some full fat soya flakes, and some equijewel, along with a good scoop of speedibeet in each feed and some soaked grass nuts.

I wouldn't work her for now. Let her spend all her calories on getting well.
 
TGM said:
Calm and condition is not particularly high in oil (only 5% oil) so an oil rich supplement would definitely be a good idea, if you do not want to change the base feed.

I'd also want the vet to investigate her hindquarters thoroughly to see if there is a physical reason why her back end is so poor, particularly if you say she has shown signs of stiffness.
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Ah, I'll start bunging the oil back in then. Is it ok to go straight back to a cup a day if she's only been off it 3 weeks? Or back to gradual build up?

I'll ask him/her tomorrow (not sure whos out this time.) Although it is bulking out.

Just a thought...after going out to put some more hay in, would there be a reason (other than worms as thats been checked) that a few horses would drop weight this badly? Just petted another pony (not mine) and his hips are just as bad. Also a very valuable show jumper in the field has dropped suddenly. (Again not one of mine).
 
is this the same mare you spoke about who ploughed thru you to get in stable to her hay? and the same mare you were asking about using gag with strap through? if so I think mare is poor because shes prob burning far too much in work than she is able to absorb from food!

How long since dentist been as you say one in one recent post youd just had dentist?

sorry if im missing something but your previous posts seem to be conflicting and as harsh as it may seem I was shocked looking at first pic, I would not want to be working my horse if she was so poor, if you have a nutricionist on the job I would keep to what she says, what has your vet actually said ?
 
Puppy said:
When you say she is having 2 kg of C&C, do you mean per feed? Or over the entire days? If the latter that is not a lot for a horse needing condition.

I would opt for a high calorie chaff, like Alfa A, or spillers conditioning fibre. Micronised linseed (about 3 cups a day), some full fat soya flakes, and some equijewel, along with a good scoop of speedibeet in each feed and some soaked grass nuts.

I wouldn't work her for now. Let her spend all her calories on getting well.
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2kg pre soaked per day with as much hay/haylage as she will eat. She struggled to eat that much for the 1st week, even accross 3 feeds, but she can finish it split in 3 now with added chaff.

Someone mentioned are her hinds always very fine....she's looking better than when I got her...put it that way. However she filled out faster last summer.

Teeth were end of summer 2012. I booked him early Jan for his next avalable appoitnemtn, which is this friday. I've been in close contract as I was conserned, he's sure its a teeth problem and she was bolting before as well so I'm crossing everything that he's right and its something quick to sort out.
 
horseandshoes77 said:
is this the same mare you spoke about who ploughed thru you to get in stable to her hay? and the same mare you were asking about using gag with strap through? if so I think mare is poor because shes prob burning far too much in work than she is able to absorb from food!

How long since dentist been as you say one in one recent post youd just had dentist?

sorry if im missing something but your previous posts seem to be conflicting and as harsh as it may seem I was shocked looking at first pic, I would not want to be working my horse if she was so poor, if you have a nutricionist on the job I would keep to what she says, what has your vet actually said ?
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She loves her work so I was taking her for short walks, I can't do much myself at the moment as still in agnoy, but we only did 2 rides as she took the bit and flew through the track. Not what I'd planned! It was meant to be a gentle toddle. :( Again....another reason the dentist things she's got an issue.
Vet thinks she's improving, as have several people.......I can't see it!
 
countrybumpkin85 said:
She loves her work so I was taking her for short walks, I can't do much myself at the moment as still in agnoy, but we only did 2 rides as she took the bit and flew through the track. Not what I'd planned! It was meant to be a gentle toddle. :( Again....another reason the dentist things she's got an issue.
Vet thinks she's improving, as have several people.......I can't see it!
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I would never consider riding a horse it that condition and I am beginning to wonder about your horsemanship skills.
 
amymay said:
She needs fat, not muscle. Don't work her, and find something higher in calories to feed her. C&c is rubbish.
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I'm not a fan of pink powder but I see why you would want to use it. Personally I'd be going with protexin it is far better and very effective. I would also strongly urge you use a blood tonic, haemavite b plus does a number of things, it enhances your horses ability to process the food and utilise it, it enhances appetite, and helps boost the immune system and counter anaemia. It's widely used in both horses performing at a high level and horses recovering from illness and malnutrition. I'm in agreement with Amy may, I'm not a fan of calm and condition, neither am I a fan of working a horse who is that malnourished.

I would however stick with a feed that needs soaking to a mush, it will take less to digest. Perhaps something like veteran vitality which is also Allen and page would be more suitable, to this I would add oil, something high quality like flax, rice bran or soya oil to increase the protein. I'd be feeding at three to four feeds a day, adding a small amount of chaff only if necessary for her to eat her tea. I'd also be investing in something like fast fibre and providing her with big buckets of this soaked as a forage replacer, thus giving her as little 'digestive work' as possible.

For exercise, the most I would be doing is walking her in hand for five mins a day so she gets out and about and is mentally stimulated.

If you haven't already, you really need the vet to come in and run bloods, and the dentist to check teeth. Keep her very well rugged, she will get cold very easily. When my mare looked like that she had a MW combo on and a mw stable at the same time, and that was in June.

Edited to say, do not worm her anymore, not until she has some weight on, and when you do come to worming her keep it as gentle as possible on her recovering system, something like pancur 5 doses over a week.

Weight tape regularly and take pics to chart her progress.
 
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countrybumpkin85 said:
2kg pre soaked per day with as much hay/haylage as she will eat. She struggled to eat that much for the 1st week, even accross 3 feeds, but she can finish it split in 3 now with added chaff.

Someone mentioned are her hinds always very fine....she's looking better than when I got her...put it that way. However she filled out faster last summer.

Teeth were end of summer 2012. I booked him early Jan for his next avalable appoitnemtn, which is this friday. I've been in close contract as I was conserned, he's sure its a teeth problem and she was bolting before as well so I'm crossing everything that he's right and its something quick to sort out.
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There's no way she should have waited so long for a dental if you think there's an issue ,that's three and half months ! That's got me speechless.
I would have found someone esle .
 
countrybumpkin85 said:
She loves her work so I was taking her for short walks, I can't do much myself at the moment as still in agnoy, but we only did 2 rides as she took the bit and flew through the track. Not what I'd planned! It was meant to be a gentle toddle.
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I'm confused as a couple of days ago you said:

Yesterday I think the issue in the school was I took her for half a hack as more of a warm up/get canter out of system hack, before going in the school to pop a few small jumps (1st time since a bad jumping accident).
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Queenbee said:
I'm not a fan of pink powder but I see why you would want to use it. Personally I'd be going with protexin it is far better and very effective. I would also strongly urge you use a blood tonic, haemavite b plus does a number of things, it enhances your horses ability to process the food and utilise it, it enhances appetite, and helps boost the immune system and counter anaemia. It's widely used in both horses performing at a high level and horses recovering from illness and malnutrition. I'm in agreement with Amy may, I'm not a fan of calm and condition, neither am I a fan of working a horse who is that malnourished.

I would however stick with a feed that needs soaking to a mush, it will take less to digest. Perhaps something like veteran vitality which is also Allen and page would be more suitable, to this I would add oil, something high quality like flax, rice bran or soya oil to increase the protein. I'd be feeding at three to four feeds a day, adding a small amount of chaff only if necessary for her to eat her tea. I'd also be investing in something like fast fibre and providing her with big buckets of this soaked as a forage replacer, thus giving her as little 'digestive work' as possible.

For exercise, the most I would be doing is walking her in hand for five mins a day so she gets out and about and is mentally stimulated.

If you haven't already, you really need the vet to come in and run bloods, and the dentist to check teeth. Keep her very well rugged, she will get cold very easily. When my mare looked like that she had a MW combo on and a mw stable at the same time, and that was in June.
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Thank you QB, the pink powder was reccomended by the nutritionist, I'd never used it before.
I had asked my instructor about excersie and she said that as long as the saddle was ok and she was happy, then it was fine....just not anything too much. Well we managed 2 short rides and I couldn't cope anyway. I'll push the vet tomorrow for more tests, and hope the dentist comes up with something Friday. The dentist is convinced its teeth, I've been in close contact with him as he couldn't come out straight away when I said she'd lost loads and had started to drop food. Then when he heard she's been draging me around he said she probably had a sharp tooth rubbing her. God I hope thats the problem, my instructor got a look/feel in her mouth and said there was a sharp bit one side...so fingers crossed!
 
My horse lost a lot of weight recently, blood tests revealed a low white blood cell count, probably caused by a virus.

The vet gave me stuff to put in his feed but i have also been giving up to 4 feeds per day. The vet also said to give him a month off, turnout during the day, but no work. I kept him very well rugged, almost over rugged for about 3 weeks. Now back to normal rugging.

The initial feeds were Barley Rings, Alfalfa pellets, Conditioning cubes, chaff and linseed. The Barley Rings seemed to send him a bit loopy, so after 10 days, i changed him to calm and condition, chaff, linseed and alfalfa pellets. 4 weeks on, he has put on a lot good amount of weight, and he is just coming back into work.

I'd definately stop working your horse, ask for bloods if they've not already been taken, and keep packing the food in.

Good luck
 
countrybumpkin85 said:
I don't know another dentist that doesn't use pwoer tools. He does each area in one block.
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I would have got a dental trained vet there will be one in the area most practises have one vet that's had specialist training
Has the vet looked in the mouth ?
I am not being nasty I am very very shocked by that .
 
juliette said:
My horse lost a lot of weight recently, blood tests revealed a low white blood cell count, probably caused by a virus.

The vet gave me stuff to put in his feed but i have also been giving up to 4 feeds per day. The vet also said to give him a month off, turnout during the day, but no work. I kept him very well rugged, almost over rugged for about 3 weeks. Now back to normal rugging.

The initial feeds were Barley Rings, Alfalfa pellets, Conditioning cubes, chaff and linseed. The Barley Rings seemed to send him a bit loopy, so after 10 days, i changed him to calm and condition, chaff, linseed and alfalfa pellets. 4 weeks on, he has put on a lot good amount of weight, and he is just coming back into work.

I'd definately stop working your horse, ask for bloods if they've not already been taken, and keep packing the food in.

Good luck
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Thank you, I'll double check he did white cell counts. Barley feeds sent her loopy too! The C&C is the only feed so far thats shown a positive difference. Does linseed oil just come in a bottle from any equine shop?
 
countrybumpkin85 said:
I honestly thought if she had the ooopfh to take off with me it wouldn't hurt...but obiously I am wrong and it was good that people told me this is a nice "have you considered / from the outside looking in" way not a bitchy way. Thank you.
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I just might be the pain in her mouth that made her take off with you or it might be the fact that she is rubbed raw. Take your pick.
 
I wouldn't be riding her at all tbh.

Like only_me said, I'd keep her almost too warm, and try and keep her out with as much hay as she can eat. And feed considerably more than you are- 2kg is nothing, unless she's a very small pony! Reg is eating 2 full buckets (water bucket types, not little feed buckets) of high-fat/ conditioning feed a day to maintain weight. Mum reckons weight wise he must be eating 8-10kg of hard feed a day, and unlimited high quality hay.

Horses can always run, and always will. Especially in an attempt to get away from pain- flight is their first pain response... The idea you can look at those hollows on her hips and flanks, and the ribs (they shouldn't be that clearly visible beneath a winter coat- they should hardly be visible at all) and her shoulder/ wither line, and be anything other than almost panicking about how thin she is is concerning.
 
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countrybumpkin85 said:
Brave...or stupid. Probably should have kept it between the vet/dentist/nutritionist and myself!

When I say lunging and pole work...I took her out for about 10 minutes today to loosen up, then went over the poles 3 times and then in.
She's been tested for several things, I've lost track if I'm honest but I know cusings was one of them. Poo counts etc done too.
She was on haylage, but started to refuse it/just snub it and leave it. I turn her out while I muck out/if its sunny and she walks to and from the field without a head collar. She made a bee line for someone elses hay on day! So I found out where it came from and bough 6 bales (all I could fit in my car) and she's been wolfing that down. Thats why she's on hay not haylage, she'd been eating haylage all winter.

She was clipped back in Nov/Dec for hunting when I was back riding or the girl who was looking after/riding her, but obviously she never went as her weight plumitted. I think I have mistakenly used the word "work" here....its more like keeping her lose and trying to prevent any muscle from wasting away as well.

I didn't discuss excersie with the vet, but they're back tomorrow. Also in the last week she's started to drop some food so the dentist agrees he needs to come out sooner than planned as she may have developed a problem since the last visit considering her age.

I'm more on a maintenance plan until they find the problem between them. Although she has started to put on, I'd like to find the cause still incase we have a problem again next winter, and so it can be resolved.

Thank you those who gave useful commenst and didn't make me feel even more like s*** than I already do that nothing I'm doing is helpping her.
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Reading this, its way to familiar! can I please suggest (and I say this with some personal experience) get her on the blood tonic now, it will seriously give you some more time to work out what the cause is. And get your vets to refer her to a specialist horsepital, or at the least ask your vets to contact the specialists to discuss your horse. Also, has she been buted to rule out pain? What are her poos like?


Feeding wise, start feeding her from a door manger... It's much easier to eat from this height when they are ill, eating from the ground can cause some major discomfort, in the end it was the only way my mare would eat.
 
Goldenstar said:
I would have got a dental trained vet there will be one in the area most practises have one vet that's had specialist training
Has the vet looked in the mouth ?
I am not being nasty I am very very shocked by that .
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I was warned off letting the vet do teeth by several people, they asked when they were done and I said end summer 2012 and they were happy with that. Asked the general "is she dropping feed, etc." which she wasnt until a week ago. I'm guessing it wasn't their priority suspision?! I've been in a bubble of pain killers and new born so have been doing a lot of nodding and dazing with the professionals. Lucky they've been patient and waited while I go blank on silly things like how many scoops I give her of certain feeds.....only do it several times a day DOH! God forbit they ask my mobile number.
 
Lolo said:
I wouldn't be riding her at all tbh.

Like only_me said, I'd keep her almost too warm, and try and keep her out with as much hay as she can eat. And feed considerably more than you are- 2kg is nothing, unless she's a very small pony! Reg is eating 2 full buckets (water bucket types, not little feed buckets) of high-fat/ conditioning feed a day to maintain weight. Mum reckons weight wise he must be eating 8-10kg of hard feed a day, and unlimited high quality hay.

Horses can always run, and always will. Especially in an attempt to get away from pain- flight is their first pain response... The idea you can look at those hollows on her hips and flanks, and the ribs (they shouldn't be that clearly visible beneath a winter coat- they should hardly be visible at all) and her shoulder/ wither line, and be anything other than almost panicking about how thin she is is concerning.
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Gosh thats far more than the nutritionist and A&P reccomended. We went through BC scores as well and they both came out with 2kg. I'll start upping that then, how much do you split it? I've heard so much conflicting info on how much the stomach can take per feed before it just passes through.
 
It'll only pass through what it can't digest and I'd rather that. 2kg is just a scoop- the chubby TB gets double that, and she's naturally slightly rotund.

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Gives a vague idea of how he looks- ideally, he'll pack on a bit more muscle all over and chunk up slightly more as well...
 
Sorry to be blunt, but those pictures show a horse that is almost a welfare case, and yet you posted that you have been schooling and jumping her?? I'm not surprised that she's rearing and bucking, the sores on her back must be hurting her, and what about the sharp teeth that you found with 'a quick flick'?
It sounds to me that you have some learning to do about horse care, and as you have posted in another thread that 'even my good doorers (sp) are kept a close eye on in winter', I don't think you can really pass the blame onto someone else entirely.
I am jobsmacked that you think it's ok to ride a horse in that condition to be honest.
 
countrybumpkin85 said:
Thank you QB, the pink powder was reccomended by the nutritionist, I'd never used it before.
I had asked my instructor about excersie and she said that as long as the saddle was ok and she was happy, then it was fine....just not anything too much. Well we managed 2 short rides and I couldn't cope anyway. I'll push the vet tomorrow for more tests, and hope the dentist comes up with something Friday. The dentist is convinced its teeth, I've been in close contact with him as he couldn't come out straight away when I said she'd lost loads and had started to drop food. Then when he heard she's been draging me around he said she probably had a sharp tooth rubbing her. God I hope thats the problem, my instructor got a look/feel in her mouth and said there was a sharp bit one side...so fingers crossed!
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Yeah well, I probably spoke to about 12 nutritionalists last year for the same reason... Not one would reccommend pp... And I doubt you would use it if you looked into some of the ingredients, I couldn't believe the cra p. they put in it! protexin was recommended by them, and my vet too. In addition, exercising a horse that thin is pretty shocking, i do get why you did it, my mare used to love riding, but *whispers your instructor is a bit of a plank to suggest it* and your dentist has no idea... Because he has not seen the teeth, i think its really harsh he hasnt bothered to come out before now. I'm being blunt, I know, but only because I've been exactly where you are, and it was not teeth, bloods were all fine, absolutely everything under the sun was tested for and tried and nothing could save her. So I do have a bit of a clue what I'm talking about. You really think she can even risk wasting one calorie burnt from exercise? :(

Look, bottom line, you love your mare, and its clear that whatever is causing this is pretty serious. You asked for advice, I'm giving you mine, which is based on experience, lots of research, lots of conversations with lots of vets and lots of nutritionalists. One day they can put a few kgs on and you are jumping for joy, the next day you have a horse who refuses to eat and is so tired it cant stand up. I strongly urge you to get a referral or even just ask your vet to send copies of all the tests via email to the big guys... Time is really critical with these issues.
 
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I'm sorry but I'm really a little miffed now. How on earth did you think it was appropriate to ride her? Seriously? Is this a wind up?
 
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