Advice on weight (or lack of)

Actually QB I think this case is bordering on neglect so I think it is important that we don't pussy foot around the OP. She has been given good advice, even by those who have shared their shock at the fact that she has been hacking, cantering and jumping the mare in this condition. If you don't think it is right to speak out strongly about that then I'm afraid you're part of the problem!
 
Ok, just to clarify that I am not sticking up for the OP however I would like to add to the thread.
A horse in the yard I run looked a little under weight just before Christmas, we had him scoped for ulcers as he was a tb and he did have very low grade ulcers. He went on a course of gastroguard and although he picked up and began to look better he still needed to put on some weight and muscle. Vet suggested what feed to use and what supplements which we did. We also had him blood tested for worms which came back negative.
He kept an average body weight but the suddenly started to drop off weight despite the vets feed suggestion, ad lib good hay and appropriate work load. He stopped loosing weight and stayed at an average size for his type.
Then last month, out of no where he melted in front of our eyes, he looks pretty much like your pictures, he also developed a strange rash on his quarters, he lost so much weight and muscle so dramatically that he has no ability to move his hind legs properly. Although he looked a little more under weight than ideal , this muscle loss was pretty quick.

Obviously the vet was called, the vet was shocked at how poor he looked and described him as a walking anatomy lesson! Please bear in mind this horse was on a diet suggested by one of the best gastro vets in the country and was never without hay and/ or grass.
The vet took bloods and his was shown to be very anaemic and that his liver enzymes were very high.
He was also blood tested again for worms and this time it showed he had a very high count of worms that are usually only found in foals, no idea how as he has been in the same field with the same herd , wormed and the field poo picked regularly. He hasn't been near foals and the field was never grazed by horses until he went out there, it was used to cut hay from.
He was re scoped and his ulcers were gone following the gastro guard treatment. He also had a liver biopsy which despite having high liver enzymes proved to be fine.

He is now on a high oil, low cereal diet and being fed a gastro supplement and succeed supplement as well as 200 ml of oil a day. He has been wormed with panacur guard and has been put on antibiotics and steroids in the hope that this will help him.
The vet has said no work until he is much fatter and stronger.

We have no idea what caused this. The vet doesn't think the worms would have caused such a huge weight and muscle loss.

We also had a other horse in the yard who had recurrent bouts of colic over the space of a week or two, he had been in as the fields were too wet so we originally thought it was a impaction colic due to the increased amount of hay but it wasn't. He too was blood tested and showed raised liver enzymes but again the biopsy showed nothing. He lost a significant amount of weight at the time, he was also put on antibiotics and is now back in work and making a good improvement.
Again they vets are stumped as to the cause.

My point to all this is extreme weight and muscle loss isn't always down to neglect or lack of food. Many times there is an underlying medical issue which may well be the cause.
With regards to liver fluke, both vets said that this would be extremely rare.

They both think that the extreme wet weather has caused mycotoxins in the grass which some horses are affected by and others are not. There is no way of knowing which ones will be affected, the only common thing between these two horses was mild ulcers. The other horses that are in the paddock have no signs.

OP .. Get the vet to take bloods and see if she has a liver problem.
Is your mares paddock near water?
 
It's simple physics isn't it? You put energy in and to maintain himself (if the horse has no underlying condition), then a) if you give it too little energy it loses weight, b) too much and it gets fat.
But, it's not that simple and it is down to management in the end imo. For instance if you are feeding ad lib forage and you horse is losing weight, then what you are giving him doesn't have enough energy for him to maintain himself with whatever work he is in/not in and then you might want to consider higher energy feeds but that has all its own problems with regards to starch, oil percentages, etc etc. And, if he's getting fat then you know you have to cut down on the grazing and any extras or restrict in some way blah blah blah. I'm not having a go OP, or anyone for that matter, and there are many, many reasons why some horses don't do so well or do too well - but as owners then it is our responsibility to manage it. All physical/neurological/biological reasons have to be ruled out - but in the end, it's down to us to keep 'em fit and well to the best of our ability.
 
charlie76 said:
Ok, just to clarify that I am not sticking up for the OP however I would like to add to the thread.
A horse in the yard I run looked a little under weight just before Christmas, we had him scoped for ulcers as he was a tb and he did have very low grade ulcers. He went on a course of gastroguard and although he picked up and began to look better he still needed to put on some weight and muscle. Vet suggested what feed to use and what supplements which we did. We also had him blood tested for worms which came back negative.
He kept an average body weight but the suddenly started to drop off weight despite the vets feed suggestion, ad lib good hay and appropriate work load. He stopped loosing weight and stayed at an average size for his type.
Then last month, out of no where he melted in front of our eyes, he looks pretty much like your pictures, he also developed a strange rash on his quarters, he lost so much weight and muscle so dramatically that he has no ability to move his hind legs properly. Although he looked a little more under weight than ideal , this muscle loss was pretty quick.

Obviously the vet was called, the vet was shocked at how poor he looked and described him as a walking anatomy lesson! Please bear in mind this horse was on a diet suggested by one of the best gastro vets in the country and was never without hay and/ or grass.
The vet took bloods and his was shown to be very anaemic and that his liver enzymes were very high.
He was also blood tested again for worms and this time it showed he had a very high count of worms that are usually only found in foals, no idea how as he has been in the same field with the same herd , wormed and the field poo picked regularly. He hasn't been near foals and the field was never grazed by horses until he went out there, it was used to cut hay from.
He was re scoped and his ulcers were gone following the gastro guard treatment. He also had a liver biopsy which despite having high liver enzymes proved to be fine.

He is now on a high oil, low cereal diet and being fed a gastro supplement and succeed supplement as well as 200 ml of oil a day. He has been wormed with panacur guard and has been put on antibiotics and steroids in the hope that this will help him.
The vet has said no work until he is much fatter and stronger.

We have no idea what caused this. The vet doesn't think the worms would have caused such a huge weight and muscle loss.

We also had a other horse in the yard who had recurrent bouts of colic over the space of a week or two, he had been in as the fields were too wet so we originally thought it was a impaction colic due to the increased amount of hay but it wasn't. He too was blood tested and showed raised liver enzymes but again the biopsy showed nothing. He lost a significant amount of weight at the time, he was also put on antibiotics and is now back in work and making a good improvement.
Again they vets are stumped as to the cause.

My point to all this is extreme weight and muscle loss isn't always down to neglect or lack of food. Many times there is an underlying medical issue which may well be the cause.
With regards to liver fluke, both vets said that this would be extremely rare.

They both think that the extreme wet weather has caused mycotoxins in the grass which some horses are affected by and others are not. There is no way of knowing which ones will be affected, the only common thing between these two horses was mild ulcers. The other horses that are in the paddock have no signs.

OP .. Get the vet to take bloods and see if she has a liver problem.
Is your mares paddock near water?
Click to expand...
Liver fluke?
 
lhotse said:
Could still be liver fluke, the wet weather of the last 12 months has seen a sharp rise in occurrence in cattle, so I would think it's a possibility. I know that you are jumping to the defense on this case because of what happened with your mare, but I do think that it is a totally different scenario here. The fact that the OP knew that the horse's teeth were bad in January, yet still hasn't had them done, and has obviously been working the horse in this condition bears no resemblance to what you and your mare went through. The OP needs a kick up the arse if you ask me...
Click to expand...


I don't disagree, I really don't, but op has had that, and it is because of what I went through that I feel that we need to leave that, and move on. Focus on what is majorly important, the horses weight loss.
 
Queenbee said:
Well, as long as you all feel these remarks are productive...
Click to expand...

with all due respect... if mare is poor like this and op is still jumping pole work etc etc worrying about what gag etc to use im sorry but giving her feed advise is not going to help, she also asked wether mare just needed muscle or if there was some areas she may need fattening....seriously... if she doesn't see what a normal person can see (and that is a very very thin horse) then im sorry but she really needs to re-evaluate her horse skills...what worries me more is the fact she blames someone else for this yet in a previous post says all her good"doorers" are checked etc...I find op to tell too many porkies... I think poor mare has not been given enough food over winter to maintain her weight and also expected to work... also if this really is a rapid weight loss id be interested to see pics of mare coming into winter and maybe a month or 2 before these pics !!
 
What concerns me is, if the OP was negligent enough to let the mare get in that state and continue working her, what use will our advice be? It's damn common sense not to work a horse in that state, so how will anything we suggest make a difference to the horses management if her competence is that dire? Sorry to put it so bluntly and it's a real shame for the horse. But what good will it do when the OP is ignoring comments on the horses work and diet?
 
No def not liver fluke. The horse has his liver re tested yesterday , one week later and the enzymes have reduced a lot.
 
Toast said:
What concerns me is, if the OP was negligent enough to let the mare get in that state and continue working her, what use will our advice be? It's damn common sense not to work a horse in that state, so how will anything we suggest make a difference to the horses management if her competence is that dire? Sorry to put it so bluntly and it's a real shame for the horse. But what good will it do when the OP is ignoring comments on the horses work and diet?
Click to expand...

From what I understand... The rapidity of the weight loss was quite significant. You all seem to think that such a weight loss takes a long time... It actually doesn't, not when a horse is clinically ill. Whatever the cause or reason, what on earth is wrong with trying to be constructive and help? Not everyone is the perfect horse person, not everyone knows everything. Yes, op may be naive, but have you seen op on here in the last 24 hrs commenting on this thread? No, well done! All that does is risk the horse... Well done all you caring people!

I just can't get my head around people who love to put others down for their own self gratification :( and the only one who suffers... The horse.

I can't help but notice that there are some of you who were so bloody supportive of my situation who are running op down. Why? I'm not disagreeing that op has done some thing she shouldn't have, but I am saying... Right now, is that really what people should be focusing on, or should they be focusing on helping op to get her horse better?! If you really think that trashing someone for riding is the most important factor here, well, you are just as bad a person... And no, I am not just aiming that at the person I quoted... I say it in general to all that think that is what they should focus on and not a poor horse.
 
Vet tested for it, both on bloods and liver biopsy. They also both has their livers scanned.
The bill for each horse is now pushing 3 k for all the tests they have had
 
Queenbee said:
From what I understand... The rapidity of the weight loss was quite significant. You all seem to think that such a weight loss takes a long time... It actually doesn't, not when a horse is clinically ill. Whatever the cause or reason, what on earth is wrong with trying to be constructive and help? Not everyone is the perfect horse person, not everyone knows everything. Yes, op may be naive, but have you seen op on here in the last 24 hrs commenting on this thread? No, well done! All that does is risk the horse... Well done all you caring people!

I just can't get my head around people who love to put others down for their own self gratification :( and the only one who suffers... The horse.

I can't help but notice that there are some of you who were so bloody supportive of my situation who are running op down. Why? I'm not disagreeing that op has done some thing she shouldn't have, but I am saying... Right now, is that really what people should be focusing on, or should they be focusing on helping op to get her horse better?! If you really think that trashing someone for riding is the most important factor here, well, you are just as bad a person... And no, I am not just aiming that at the person I quoted... I say it in general to all that think that is what they should focus on and not a poor horse.
Click to expand...

but how do you know its rapid weight loss ??? have I missed something here...please show me proof of rapid weight loss ? like I said id like to see pics of mare pre winter then maybe a month or 2 before these pics...qb I think u are genuinely trying to help op...but I fear op is not being truthful...read through other posts and tell me that is the words of a woman worried about a mare with rapid weight loss !!!
 
Billie1007 said:
Actually QB I think this case is bordering on neglect so I think it is important that we don't pussy foot around the OP. She has been given good advice, even by those who have shared their shock at the fact that she has been hacking, cantering and jumping the mare in this condition. If you don't think it is right to speak out strongly about that then I'm afraid you're part of the problem!
Click to expand...

I don't disagree she has had some good advice on here... I just think some @@@@'s are focusing on riding, which she has now stopped, and am certain that she could do with some other feed back.... But all people seem to want to focus on is her riding. If she has stopped riding, wtf is the point in getting on her back about that? And how will you feel 'if' it goes the same way as my mare, and all you did was jump on her for riding her horse and not give support? Probably wouldn't care a damn....
 
Queenbee I don't think I (or any of the other posts ) i remember reading give the impression that anyone does not know that horses can lose wieght very quickly
I have no wish to put down OP but neither am I going to tip toe round someone who has left a horse in that state for three and half months waiting for a dental check and that's with out considering the threads suggesting the horse has been having very unsuitable work .
I don't like using capitals but
THIN HORSE ! LOST WIEGHT QUICKLY ? START AT THE OBVIOUS GET A VET TO LOOK IN THE HORSES MOUTH.
You can feed a horse whatever you like but if it's losing wieght because of a dental issue it will not gain wieght and it's suffering.
I am amazed that the vet who saw this horse did not look in its mouth presenting With wieght lossat that age it's the first thing I have done.
 
What a nightmare. Equijewel is great - mega calories and super digestible. I am assuming vet had tested for liver function though as it is high oil.

I would turn her out for at least a couple of hours a day and let that be her exercise.

I really hope she picks up soon, glad dentist is coming and I pray it is simply a shed load of calories required :-)
 
Last edited:
horseandshoes77 said:
but how do you know its rapid weight loss ??? have I missed something here...please show me proof of rapid weight loss ? like I said id like to see pics of mare pre winter then maybe a month or 2 before these pics...qb I think u are genuinely trying to help op...but I fear op is not being truthful...read through other posts and tell me that is the words of a woman worried about a mare with rapid weight loss !!!
Click to expand...

Because I took the time to speak to the op... The onset was rapid... Definitely not what you would expect from general weight loss. Something underlying
 
Goldenstar said:
Queenbee I don't think I (or any of the other posts ) i remember reading give the impression that anyone does not know that horses can lose wieght very quickly
I have no wish to put down OP but neither am I going to tip toe round someone who has left a horse in that state for three and half months waiting for a dental check and that's with out considering the threads suggesting the horse has been having very unsuitable work .
I don't like using capitals but
THIN HORSE ! LOST WIEGHT QUICKLY ? START AT THE OBVIOUS GET A VET TO LOOK IN THE HORSES MOUTH.
You can feed a horse whatever you like but if it's losing wieght because of a dental issue it will not gain wieght and it's suffering.
I am amazed that the vet who saw this horse did not look in its mouth presenting With wieght lossat that age it's the first thing I have done.
Click to expand...

But, what vet would not have looked in the mouth? Just because a dentist is still lacking, do you really think a vet would not have checked the mouth as part of general overall checks? I don't. Op has not said this has not happened And has admitted that she has been a bit all over the place. I doubt a vet would have neglected to look in the mouth in such circumstances.
 
Goldenstar said:
When I asked why she had not got a vet to check the mouth she answered because they might use power tools .
Click to expand...
but that doesn't mean that a vet would not have routinely looked in the mouth as par for the course.

Everyone seems to be missing the bigger picture, no matter what the op's experience or ability... There is a malnourished horse here.... I'm sorry, perhaps I'm hyper sensitive... No, I defiantly am, but I'm sick of people using poorly horses or any situation as a reason to have a go at others when they should be helping them. I'm not saying op is without fault. I'm saying she needs flipping help, but for most of you out there, helping her is secondary to berating her.

I personally think that's sickening and I simply can't get my head around it. It doesn't matter to me what her faults are or have been, you were all so supportive to me, I wish you could extend the same help now to someone who for whatever reason needs that support and help. Perhaps I have an unnatural belief in humanity.
 
Queen bee people have helped OP they have advised the vet again the dentist lots of food advice , (including feeding large amounts of oil which would worry me in this situation )
But she has not been berated people have pointed out inconsistencies in her story that's fair enough.
If you think that me thinking that it's not good enough to make an elderly horse who you think has a sore mouth wait three and half months to have someone do her teeth is berating OP then that's your choice .
But what's the point of me thinking it not saying it OP will not get any help from that.
OP needs help but from proper professionals on the ground , not from the Internet .
 
Sorry posted too soon I remember your story and understand you are senestive to this but honestly I do think in the circumstances OP has had unfair treatment.
 
QueenBee your post suggesting I wouldn't 'care a damn' if the horse died and I hadn't given support is downright rude. Ironically the most prolific judgemental attitude has come from you on this thread.
 
This may not sound much but can she always have access to alfalfa nut or beetpulp soaked throughout the day? I've done this with particularly poor horses (if they eat it some are fussy) and its worked well, I was even popping corn or rapeseed oil into it before serving and for the fussy ones a bit of mint oil or cordial and applejuice :)

This was back before linseed etc was the norm. Also sometimes mixed half a scoop of spillers conditioing cubes in to be soaked and they just have a tub in the stable to dip in and out of and as its mostly fibre an oil not overloading tummy with starch weight gain feeds :)

At the minute my old boy is getting two feeds a day and stabled at night with a treat ball with alfalfa cubes in and he's looking good, he lost a lot of weight after he was unwell. We are just waiting on grass here at the minute :)
 
shame that the OP never suggested on this thread that the weightloss was rapid... declaring in the OP that this mare has likely had insufficient care since she was heavily pregnant in December....

and that the mare had improved since she first looked given that she was now wondering whether she was just lacking muscle or still lacking fat.
 
I haven't read all the posts but just wanted to say OP that I have a rising 20 year old mare that always comes out of the winter looking too well. That is until this year, I have never seen her lose so much weight as she has over the last few months. I have spoken to the vet and he has said to see if she picks up with the grass coming through as she is completely happy in herself and also has a lovely shine to her coat. If she doesn't then we will go down the testing route. She has also been well fed over the winter with plenty of hay. Having spoken to a few horse owners there are many who have struggled with weight this year.
 
Heavily pregnant in December and giving birth but you clipped her in Nov/dec because you were hunting her, amazing you were hunting at nearly full term
 
The OP wasn't hunting her! The girl who was supposed to be looking after her was hunting her. Why don't people read threads?

Honestly people I hate the witch hunt mentality, OP is asking for suggestions to get weight on a very thin horse. Tests have been run, vets are involved and us on an internet forum wrangling at each other is just pointless and quite frankly getting tiring.

Why can people just give helpful advice without looking for trouble anymore? The horse is already thin and us bashing away at each other won't help it!
 
Really sorry to jump on the band wagon especially as I hate reading the threads when people jump on one person but this story just doesn't ring true at all looking from the outside. Earlier somewhere in this thread the OP said she was "still in agony" and so wasn't riding much more than a short walk.... and yet on the bareback thread she says this.....

"Hadnt for years, but been backing a youngster, so have done loads recently. Shire x though.....so REALLY comfy"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top